Suda Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Could I use a domestic extension cable while on sites in France and Spain? Our normal hook up is very weighty and the European motorhomers seem to use cable that’s half the thickness of ours. Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Continentals use domestic-type power cables because campsite power points used to be domestic types and were always quite low power facilities by British standards, often 3 amps compared with our 16 amps. Continental campsites often provide more power than this these days, 6 or 10 amps being quite common, and they often use the familiar blue connectors too. Power points used to be few and far between and hence the use of very long EHU leads - sometimes 50 meters or more from your pitch. You can buy a thinner EHU lead (1.5 mm2 rather than 2.5 mm2 cable) and they are cheaper too. If you are never going to use more that 10 amps that’s thick enough. That what I carry these days. A 25 meter length of 1.5 mm2 EHU cable should be enough but carry two if you want to be sure, so you can connect them together. This is a better idea than using a domestic extension lead. For continental touring you should also take a Shuko plug adaptor, for when the power points are the old fashioned type. I also take a polarity tester and a polarity changeover connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suda Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 Thankyou. Such a thorough response. and clear explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 There is no one who has a Amp reading in a camper. All depends what is hanging on in amps.. Like Airco. Etc. But the copper is weight and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Hans - 2020-07-18 9:47 PM There is no one who has a Amp reading in a camper. Oh yes there is!!! I have a 'Powermaster' supplied by the late Allan Evans of A and N Caravans,,, http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/powermasterold.php This displays actual voltage and current and can be set to trip at nay pre-determined current or voltage limit. I note A and N no longer supply them but the basic unit is available via eBay. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Folks I have to be honest. It depresses me so much when reading the posts on this forum, that folk who have spent so much buying the motorhome of their dreams, then proceed to do everything else on the cheap. Stop being cheapskates. Use the safest piece of kit available. In this case stick with the approved safe electrical cable. How much weight will you be saving by botching it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Steve H - 2020-07-18 10:25 PM Folks I have to be honest. It depresses me so much when reading the posts on this forum, that folk who have spent so much buying the motorhome of their dreams, then proceed to do everything else on the cheap. Stop being cheapskates. Use the safest piece of kit available. In this case stick with the approved safe electrical cable. How much weight will you be saving by botching it? Although I agree with your cheapskate point as a common mistake people make many motorhomers also make the mistake of ignoring payload until they find out the hard way; I certainly did with our first MH. And in the case of EHU leads 2.5 mm2 cable is only required by those who need to use a lot of power on sites (in UK) where 16 amps is available and the internal wiring can handle the load. It’s for this sort of use on UK sites with 16 amp power points, when the mains input on older caravans and motorhomes might not have additional circuit protection, that 2.5 mm2 leads were specified as the standard, belt and braces equipment for use in UK. The internal caravan circuits might catch fire but at least the EHU cable would survive! But my MH mains input (on a Hymer, built well in Germany) is protected by a 10 amp MCB, which is what the internal mains circuit cabling is designed to carry. So there is simply no point in me carrying heavier and more cumbersome 2.5 mm2 cable around. It’s not a question of being cheapskate but of understanding the requirement properly and buying the most suitable equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Suda - 2020-07-17 10:10 PM Thankyou. Such a thorough response. and clear explanation. But, do take heed of Stuart's warning about the max 10 Amp/2.3kW load for the 1.5mm cables. What continentals don't generally carry is electric kettles - and those carried by many Brits are of quite high wattage (up to 3kW)! Also remember that some of the load on your EHU cable is "invisible", from items such as the fridge and the battery charger which may not be high, but still contribute. Some vans have electric space/water heating (e.g. the Truma 4/6 E variants). So, on a "brisk" morning you pop the heater on to "take the chill off" and plug in the kettle for a cuppa - and your EHU cable begins to get very hot, or even melt! It is better, IMO - unless you know with certainty that whatever combination of appliances you may use you will never exceed 10A - to use the 2.5mm cable (albeit it weighs that bit more). Then, if you do accidentally cause an overload, either an MCB ("fuse") or (probably) RCBO (main switch) will trip in your van (or more likely the site supply breaker will trip!) before the EHU cable reaches its load limit. It is worth knowing the electrical loads from your van and its electrical appliances since, as Stuart said in his first post, some continental sites (particularly smaller sites in remoter locations) have site feeder pillars restricted down to as little as 3A (though this is now relatively rare), but more commonly 6A or 10A. The danger sign will be feeders that have only continental two pin sockets in lieu of the more common CEE blue three pin variety - although almost all the latter will still be limited to less than 16A (the general exceptions being "winter sports" sites where supplies are commonly metered and the EHU is charged against consumption). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 A point worth making, I feel, is that your EHU cable should always be unrolled completely as a coiled cable, especially a long one can heat up considerably, and in the case of a worn cable, possibly cause a fire. We were recently in a nice site in France, with 6 amp EHU and I managed to trip it several times although our load was showing well below the 6 amp max. The site owner had no explanation, but I wondered if in using our 50 metre heavy cable and 25 metres extension of normal HU cable, if that was contributing to the load? We were on the 2 pin "old style" plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 If you want to follow the rules, the cable must be 2,5 mm² and H07RN-F type. Maximum length 25 meters. Max P.S. Beware of so-called "Schuco" plugs. The French ones are similar to the Germans but have a hole to accommodate the ground pin that the Germans do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 This 2012 forum discussion about French 230V hook-ups may be of interest. (Some of the 2012 links may be ‘dead’ now.) I’ve read (on the C&MC forum ;-) ) that “...the regulations for caravan sites state that the bollard must be within 20 m of the pitch, hence the 25 m standard hook-up cable”, but I don’t know a) if that’s correct, or b) if so, whether it applies just to UK campsites. Certainly I’ve been on French campsites where you’d be lucky to ‘reach’ some EHU bollards with a 50m cable, let alone a 25m one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-21 9:13 AM This 2012 forum discussion about French 230V hook-ups may be of interest. (Some of the 2012 links may be ‘dead’ now.) I’ve read (on the C&MC forum ;-) ) that “...the regulations for caravan sites state that the bollard must be within 20 m of the pitch, hence the 25 m standard hook-up cable”, but I don’t know a) if that’s correct, or b) if so, whether it applies just to UK campsites. Certainly I’ve been on French campsites where you’d be lucky to ‘reach’ some EHU bollards with a 50m cable, let alone a 25m one. Just for interest Derek, the site we were on in France had only the one "bollard? but with 4 six amp two pin sockets. We were not parked in bays, and I had around 40 metres of HU cable to reach the bollard, Could that cause problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 flyboyprowler - 2020-07-21 9:30 AM Just for interest Derek, the site we were on in France had only the one "bollard? but with 4 six amp two pin sockets. We were not parked in bays, and I had around 40 metres of HU cable to reach the bollard, Could that cause problems? Probably not. But in case of problems I dare not think how much it would cost you. For example in Italy the H07RN-F cable is mandatory since it is intended for outdoor use. That nobody or very few uses it is another matter. In any case, we are talking about European regulations. Extensions by using multiple cables are not allowed. Max P.S. Aside from a few French or German campsites, 95% of campsites in Europe now have blue CEE17 sockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I notice that H07RN-F cable was mentioned in this 2012 ukcampsite.co.uk forum discussion https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=271540&ThreadPage=1 As has been said there, advice from the UK ‘camping’ clubs is that EHU hook-up cables should be 25m maximum length, with 2.5mm conductors and (for visibility) coloured orange. I’m doubtful that UK vendors market H07RN-F hook-up cables meeting those criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-21 2:09 PM I notice that H07RN-F cable was mentioned in this 2012 ukcampsite.co.uk forum discussion https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=271540&ThreadPage=1 As has been said there, advice from the UK ‘camping’ clubs is that EHU hook-up cables should be 25m maximum length, with 2.5mm conductors and (for visibility) coloured orange. I’m doubtful that UK vendors market H07RN-F hook-up cables meeting those criteria. The Italian regulation does not speak of color which is however something additional, this type of cable also exists in black or blue. I made (home made) mine using the orange H07RN-F. No problem finding it, any good electrical store and even some brico-centers have it in stock. The important thing is that the code is marked along its entire length, let's say every meter. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Run over strenght of the cable is Missing Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 mtravel - 2020-07-21 2:24 PM Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-21 2:09 PM I notice that H07RN-F cable was mentioned in this 2012 ukcampsite.co.uk forum discussion https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=271540&ThreadPage=1 As has been said there, advice from the UK ‘camping’ clubs is that EHU hook-up cables should be 25m maximum length, with 2.5mm conductors and (for visibility) coloured orange. I’m doubtful that UK vendors market H07RN-F hook-up cables meeting those criteria. The Italian regulation does not speak of color which is however something additional, this type of cable also exists in black or blue. I made (home made) mine using the orange H07RN-F. No problem finding it, any good electrical store and even some brico-centers have it in stock. The important thing is that the code is marked along its entire length, let's say every meter. Max From memory, the "normal" 230V cable for outdoor use in UK (such as EHUs) is, as Derek says, orange (for enhanced visibility - think mowers!), PVC sheathed, with 2.5mm sq conductors. (Orange cable is also available with 1.5mm sq conductors, as I imagine will be true for those with yellow or blue outer sheaths.) The yellow PVC cable is mainly intended for use at 110V (think building sites - where for safety all power tools run at 110V via step-down transformers), and is available with 2.5mm sq conductors. As the cable rating in Amps at 110V is lower than at 230V, the orange or yellow outer sheath colours are to assist selection of the correct cable between mains and transformer, and transformer and tool. The blue outer sheath cable is, as I understand it, primarily designated for low temperature use, for example in refrigerated rooms, as the orange sheath becomes too rigid below normal ambient temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamPye Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Hans - 2020-07-18 9:47 PM There is no one who has a Amp reading in a camper. All depends what is hanging on in amps.. Like Airco. Etc. But the copper is weight and money. Yes there is (me too!) I installed one in the previous van and I've immediately fitted one in my new van too. Essential item when on European sites with low power connections, and even on some UK sites with 10A or less supplies. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipsticks Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Is this the one I wonder ? https://tinyurl.com/y4jy5cpe It looks an interesting item but I'm not sure how much I would use it if I had one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I don't think so: as that is a Volt meter, not an Ammeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 dipsticks - 2020-07-22 4:56 PM Is this the one I wonder ? https://tinyurl.com/y4jy5cpe It looks an interesting item but I'm not sure how much I would use it if I had one ! Yes, that is exactly the same one as used by A and N when they assembled their 'PowerMaster'. Here is where I installed it in our AT... Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niktam Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Not much help but don't just coil your cable up all one way as otherwise you end up with a tangled mess like most of them I see on site. I couldn't even begin to write down how to coil it up but I dare say some kind person will attach a youtube link? You just coil it alternative ways to each coil but you have to remove the kinks before you start coiling it up properly it will then lay flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Fitted this last year. It does Volts, Amps, Watts and counts up KWH http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o151/fleck_bucket/20200302_134805.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipsticks Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 5:16 PM I don't think so: as that is a Volt meter, not an Ammeter. It looks like it displays Amps and covers current limit under 5.4 of the details to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 dipsticks - 2020-07-22 10:40 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 5:16 PM I don't think so: as that is a Volt meter, not an Ammeter. It looks like it displays Amps and covers current limit under 5.4 of the details to me. It certainly does, it is exactly the same unit as I have from A and N. You can pre-set over and under Voltage switch off limits and also over Current switch off with settable off time before retrying. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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