Barryd999 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Jands - 2020-07-26 8:37 PM As one of those dreaded second home owners in the lake district I dont want to see all the parking areas taken over by campers doing a free holiday. The economy of the lakes is mainly through tourism, there are lots of campsites but in many prime areas a lack of parking. If these get taken over by campers not putting much into the local economy by camping for free, eating inside their vans the local buisness will fail. I know Buttermere well, often walk round crummock water eating in the Fish Inn, parking in a NT carpark west of the water. I know that Buttermere struggles with parking so once the village is taken over by campers stopping for a week the area would economically die. Maybe the UK should follow the aire idea, small sites at low/free prices but seeing how a small number of the population treat country side car parks know that this idea would result in big rubbish spots, not sure how other countries keep theirs so good. Just looked £12 a night in sykes campsite for small campervans, stopping in their carpark. Not too much money and far easier than driving to the M6. These campers were at the top of the Newlands pass though. Middle of nowhere doing nobody any harm. Not clogging up car parks in Buttermere. I agree with you regarding the actual car parks in the villages and towns. They are often not suitable for motorhomes but even some of them you could open up say between 7pm and 8am for a small fee when many will be empty. I dare say some of the pubs and eateries in villages could benefit from that. Then there is the off season. Winter. allowing parking in suitable car parks could increase trade. This is the exact location on streetview of the spot the coppers decided to traumatise the two respectable visitors. https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5473999,-3.2494349,3a,75y,305.4h,78.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3mmA0oUEvwSWT5k9yeIDfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Safe, off the road but not miles off the road, doing no harm whatsoever. There are many others as well in that area, out of the villages and plenty of space. As regards a free holiday? Its not about having a free holiday is it? I am sure respectable motorhomers like the two in question here will spend money on activities, food, drinks probably more than a day tripper. As for me, I just wont bother going if this is the attitude. Or ill do what I do now, pop over for the day, do a bit of kayaking and come home without spending anything. Its a bit personal for me as it was always like second home to me. I had boats for years on Windermere and Ullswater and must have put tens of thousands of pounds into the Lake district economy over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 malc d - 2020-07-26 3:13 PM Tintent115 - 2020-07-26 1:54 PM Bit of a (long) non story really...... Camping in breach of a bye law apparently, politely moved on by plod. .... Quite agree. The police explained very politely that there has been a " massive influx " of visitors - many making a mess - and for that reason the bye-law is being enforced. You can't really expect the police to check whether or not each visitor is making a mess. Sounds like the majority are making things bad for the minority. :-| Agree.. As lovely as it sounds to be able to just park/pitch up as/when/where you want, the fact is in certain areas restrictions/bylaws exist...and whilst folk may have "got away with it" in the past, due to increased numbers nowadays and social media/forums broadcasting once isolated locations (and all coupled with considerably lower standands of behaviour!) , restrictions are more likely to get enforced (and new ones introduced?) So maybe don't blame the rule but blame those whose conduct have brought them about? We also have no idea what "harm" a vehicle's overnighting-inhabitants have done, until they have driven off... Some will leave behind rubbish- and sometimes emptied toilet waste. We've all seen the detritus left by some campervanners/motorhomers, so as a group we are not complete innocents. (even dribbling/emptying grey waste, doesn't look too good, especially in Joe Public's eyes..) Slight aside- I don't pretend to know the area in question - But why do some *cough* "wildcampers" choose to nest in a clump of vans? One van soon becomes two, two becomes four etc.. and sometimes they'll be there for days on end...? That doesn't help things does it. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Deneb - 2020-07-27 10:22 AM John52 - 2020-07-27 12:39 AM And who owns the National Trust *-) The Forestry Commission *-) And the public roads they were parked on *-) And who gives anyone the "right" to contravene UK legislation which makes it an offence to drive more than 15 yards from the highway onto any land, public or private, without explicit consent? Just because a blind eye has been turned in the past, doesn't mean it always will remain so in the light of the unfortunate more recent behaviour of more and more selfish and inconsiderate individuals. Parking on any public road is also by consent. When I was being trained in road traffic legislation, it was made clear that the only right of useage on a public highway is that of being able to "pass and repass". In other words, roads are intended to allow users to travel between destinations, and any parking on any part of the carriageway is technically an obstruction in law as it prevents all other road users from being able to pass or repass over that particular part of the carriageway occupied by the stationary vehicle. Of course, with the sheer volume of traffic using our roads, some common sense has to prevail, and the increase in legislation creating specific parking restrictions might suggest that there is implied consent to park anywhere that they are not in force. But don't make the mistake of thinking that you have a "right" to park on a public road, or anywhere else unless you happen to own the land in question, for that matter. But they weren't 15 yards off the highway. I can't really put it better than Barry did; They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets. To me this is just another example of lazy policing. like detecting and proving dangerous driving is difficult, wheras proving exceeding the speed limit is easy detecting and proving child abuse is difficult, wheras detecting and proving downloading pictures of it is easy detecting and proving people leaving litter behind is difficult, wheras driving around moving motorhomes on is easy But its not even a deterrent to the Buckfast tenters leaving all the mess The worst people are getting away with it, because its easier to prosecute others. PS: or is this about deterring motorhomes so people have to spend more money when they visit? Are they not so bothered about the Buckfast brigade because they don't want their custom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-07-27 10:58 AM This is the exact location on streetview of the spot the coppers decided to traumatise the two respectable visitors. https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5473999,-3.2494349,3a,75y,305.4h,78.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3mmA0oUEvwSWT5k9yeIDfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Safe, off the road but not miles off the road, doing no harm whatsoever. . also shows how much unused land there is that could be made use of. Can't help comparing it with the Italian Lake district that has been developed with sufficient housing and parking to relieve the housing and parking crisis. Nimbys claim it would spoil the view. But the way the Italians have done it enhances the view IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 Jands - 2020-07-26 8:37 PM As one of those dreaded second home owners in the lake district I dont want to see all the parking areas taken over by campers doing a free holiday. The economy of the lakes is mainly through tourism, there are lots of campsites but in many prime areas a lack of parking. If these get taken over by campers not putting much into the local economy by camping for free, eating inside their vans the local buisness will fail. I know Buttermere well, often walk round crummock water eating in the Fish Inn, parking in a NT carpark west of the water. I know that Buttermere struggles with parking so once the village is taken over by campers stopping for a week the area would economically die. Maybe the UK should follow the aire idea, small sites at low/free prices but seeing how a small number of the population treat country side car parks know that this idea would result in big rubbish spots, not sure how other countries keep theirs so good. Just looked £12 a night in sykes campsite for small campervans, stopping in their carpark. Not too much money and far easier than driving to the M6. I would think that the number of cars who want a cheap day out far exceeds the number of Campers. The problem is that big white vehicles stand out more (and take up a bit more space). Until there is a better system in places (like Aires) the Businesses will not get a penny from us because we will avoid the area. We have an 8.2 metre van and we hate crowds, so the Lakes is not what we want. It would be worth a punt in Winter but I doubt that there will be many Sites open then. I will do some research as we want to use the van more, to make up for this year. The Lakes is not unique, there seems to be no 'joined up' system to accommodate all types of vehicle anywhere. There are over 250,000 registered Motorhomes and Caravans in the UK and hardly any dedicated parking areas where you can park up during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Good afternoon, You should ask the police if they are telling you to break the law because you may be over the drink drive limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 goldi - 2020-07-27 4:19 PM Good afternoon, You should ask the police if they are telling you to break the law because you may be over the drink drive limit. In which case they may be able to charge you for being in charge of the vehicle whilst unfit? Why not just drive to a quiet street and park there when you are too tired to drive further safely. I have to say I think its very irresponsible of Cumbtria police to move people on when they are doing no harm, and may be too tired to drive safely >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 John52 - 2020-07-27 4:34 PM goldi - 2020-07-27 4:19 PM Good afternoon, You should ask the police if they are telling you to break the law because you may be over the drink drive limit. In which case they may be able to charge you for being in charge of the vehicle whilst unfit? Why not just drive to a quiet street and park there when you are too tired to drive further safely. I have to say I think its very irresponsible of Cumbtria police to move people on when they are doing no harm, and may be too tired to drive safely >:-) Then there is questions to be asked if anyone can have a drink in their motorhome legally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jands Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 The national trust is a private company supported by donations and members. The best solution is to park overnight legally not breaking any bylaws, wild camping is not legal in England. although tollerated by some land owners. One van doesnt cause a problem but once the number increases it does, as I said there are perfectly good legal places to stop and sleep in buttermere that dont cause problems, help the local economy and dont annoy people, best the guy had used one. Selfish illegal camping just causes problems to the responsible motorhomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Jands - 2020-07-27 5:59 PM The national trust is a private company. . The national trust is a registered charity, although you could be forgiven for thinking its a private company when you look at the accounts and see what the managers draw from it 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 goldi - 2020-07-27 4:43 PM John52 - 2020-07-27 4:34 PM goldi - 2020-07-27 4:19 PM Good afternoon, You should ask the police if they are telling you to break the law because you may be over the drink drive limit. In which case they may be able to charge you for being in charge of the vehicle whilst unfit? Why not just drive to a quiet street and park there when you are too tired to drive further safely. I have to say I think its very irresponsible of Cumbtria police to move people on when they are doing no harm, and may be too tired to drive safely >:-) Then there is questions to be asked if anyone can have a drink in their motorhome legally Its been done to death, nobody ever got prosecuted wild camping in a motorhome when having a drink. Ive even sat on a roadside layby 5 stellas down chatting to some local coppers in Scotland. It never even entered their minds to challenge it. I guess in this situation you would just have to say "I cant drive ossifer as Im sh1tfaced". Any responsible copper would just say "ok then, please leave when you are sober" but I guess they could try and give you a ticket for not moving if they really wanted to be complete sh1ts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 goldi - 2020-07-27 4:43 PM John52 - 2020-07-27 4:34 PM goldi - 2020-07-27 4:19 PM Good afternoon, You should ask the police if they are telling you to break the law because you may be over the drink drive limit. In which case they may be able to charge you for being in charge of the vehicle whilst unfit? Why not just drive to a quiet street and park there when you are too tired to drive further safely. I have to say I think its very irresponsible of Cumbtria police to move people on when they are doing no harm, and may be too tired to drive safely >:-) Then there is questions to be asked if anyone can have a drink in their motorhome legally As I understand it, it is an offence to be in charge of a vehicle on a public road - which can include a layby - while over the prescribed limit, regardless of whether or not the vehicle is being driven. If you want to drink in a motorhome, use a site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 aandy - 2020-07-29 6:07 PM As I understand it, it is an offence to be in charge of a vehicle on a public road - which can include a layby - while over the prescribed limit, regardless of whether or not the vehicle is being driven. If you want to drink in a motorhome, use a site. And it is a defence to show that there was no reasonable likelihood of you driving the vehicle whilst in that condition. Normally somewhat difficult to prove to the satisfaction of a court if you are in a car, but if parked up in a MH in your pyjamas with the bed made up and settled for the night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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