Taking the plunge for the first time!

[Bullet]

After years of having a motorhome on my bucket list we are looking at buying our first one in the coming months / early next year and whilst having spent the last couple of weeks on google and scouring magazines I’m looking for some advice.

 

We are a family of 5 with children aged 12, 9 & 8 and planning on using the motorhome for weekends/weeks away in the UK and also 2-3 weeks over the summer in France. We have a budget of £50–£70k at a push and I have a C1 license. My wife still has a couple of reservations mainly around space so bigger is better, especially if there is a separate shower/toilet and also we don’t tend to travel light so don’t want to be overly restricted with a 500kg payload.

 

My current thinking is a Swift Kon-Tiki Sport 596 which, new, comes in just below the £70k mark, right at the very top end of budget before being kitted out with bike racks and all other bits.

 

Fully appreciate now is the time everyone is using them so guessing not a great time for snapping up a relatively new second hand one.

 

So....question / advice

When is the best time to buy a used one and what’s the likelihood something matching expectations will come good in the next 6 months or so?

When is the best time to buy anyway - realistically won’t be using it until March next year

What other models should be considered (I also like the look of the Bailey (can’t remember the model) but comes in at £55k or so, also the Swift Edge at £50k.

Looking at the price of used, they don’t tend to depreciate a huge amount, maybe driven by coronavirus inflating the used market, but even before they hold value relatively well?? I’m guessing a £70k motorhome will be worth £50k in 5-8 years time??

 

I’m based in Cheshire so have Spinney just down the road and not too far to Glossop - and other dealers come highly recommended? I’m visiting Spinney later this week but would be good to get an independent view before any sales pitch.

 

Appreciate so many question so any advice greatly received.

 

Thanks!!

 

[Barryd999]

The worlds your oyster with that budget but its good that you are considering payload as its really important.

 

I would suggest that winter is going to be a good time to get the best deal. Ill be looking for a new van this winter. My thoughts were that maybe a lot will come on the market that were bought on a whim this spring / summer. Could be wrong of course.

 

Definitely worth considering buying used though, any problems will hopefully have been ironed out and yes, new motorhomes nearly always come broken from the factory and also you might get after market extras like Sat dishes, solar, refillable LPG tanks etc.

 

My suggestion would be to make sure you get the layout you really want that works for you. See as many as possible to narrow the field and go as big as possible. 7.5 metre six berth min maybe even consider a twin rear axle design. There are only two of us and on a long trip we fill every locker and storage space.

[colin]

Most of your questions are pure speculation at the moment, but when it comes to payload and/or other models, remember that your wife and children will be part of the payload, so you are right in looking at 4.25t models which will be based on the heavy/maxi chassis, anything based on the light chassis (3.85t max?) esp at that length won't work, as the overall payload will be marginal, but more importantly the rear axle will probably overload before getting anywhere near max weight.

[Derek Uzzell]

Jon

 

This guide may be helpful

 

https://pocketmags.com/buying-your-first-motorhome-magazine

 

It might also be useful to know the gender of your children (as that can affect sleeping arrangements) and what 'camping' experience you might already have.

 

(I usually think, when a "Which motorhome should I buy?" enquiry comes up and a family of several reasonably old children are in the mix, that the first question that should be asked is whether a large caravan would make much better sense.)

[Keithl]

If you have never camped in a MH or caravan then I would suggest you at least hire one for a weekend to find out if it is going to work for you and, more importantly, the rest of your family.

 

Have you considered a pup tent for the eldest child? By early teens our two lads where out of our then trailer tent and in their own two man ridge tent. You can normally pitch a pup tent alongside your MH at no, or minimal, extra cost.

 

And you seem to be well aware of the wight constraints so just stay vigilant and don't be tempted by something where the price seems too good to be true and which you have doubts if it will work for you.

 

And why not buy now and start using it straight away? Why wait for next Spring!

 

Keith.

[david lloyd]

The others are giving sound advice and you are thinking in the right direction - if you just take the weight of you family that will come in at around 250 - 300 kgs and the kids are growing! Water weighs 1kg per litre so a 100 litre tank is another 100 kgs. You will be surprised how heavy a full fridge andlsrder is. So, as you are in no hurry and the second hand market is buoyant with newcomers, winter or early February is going to be best time to buy. I too think there will be Motorhomes bought and used a few times then sold. If you are tempted to buy new to get exactly what you want be prepared to lose at least 20% when you drive it out the dealers - but generally second hand models have lost that and hold their value better than a car. You may also get one with extras like a bike rack already fitted or be able to negotiate them into the price with a dealer.

 

A tag axle model is likely to give you the space and carrying capacity you need but spend the next few months looking at as many different models as you can - don’t just look - stand in the shower with the door closed and move about - make up any non fixed beds and lie on them. Pretend to bend over the bathroom sink to rinse you face and see if you crack your head on the that nice shiny tap. Stand in the kitchen just imagine where everything you need will go - can you reach that microwave set above the fridge freezer? Believe me, it is easy to get carried away with the style and fit of a motorhome but when it comes to using it style counts for nothing.

 

Good luck and enjoy the search process.

 

David

[Bullet]

Thanks for all your replies - I’ve been out and bought the magazine already :-D

 

I have an older son and the 8 & 9 year olds are both girls. Both my wife and I were brought up caravanning and we’ve been away with Eurocamp the last 10 years or so. We’ve also been camping a number of times in the UK with our Outwell tent, however darling wife wants a ‘comfier’ life than a tent.

 

We have hired one for a couple of weekends so sort of know what we’re getting in to.

 

Agree a caravan makes sense both from a cost and a space however I also wish to use the MH for following the Tour de France etc, a caravan makes this a little more difficult.

 

Totally agree with the tent -another couple of years and kids will be out in a pop up tent pitched along side!

[flyboyprowler]

All good thoughts above, as ever. Consider having a Safari room as well. Your older kids can sleep in that and have a bit of independence in later life! Also it's an extra lounge to free up space inside. Yes, a bit of a bind to put up and take down, but you soon get used to it.

[Keithl]

And think where you are going to use it during the daytime while you are away.

 

A tag axle will be almost impossible to use for days out from a campsite so how ill you travel?

 

Our AutoTrail is a six berth at 6.5 metres long and 3,800 kg GVW and is ideal for going out for the day and we can nearly always park in public car parks, supermarket car parks or the likes of National trust properties.The only places we avoid are town centres.

 

That is where a caravan would win as you would have the towcar to travel around in.

 

Horses for courses and all that.

 

Keith.

[Barryd999]

If the OP is off to France though he doesn't want a Caravan. Motorhomes rule the roost there for sure and parking is dead easy and of course the thousands of Aires make life so much easier.

 

Ive toyed with the idea of getting a Tag but the main reason that put me off was Im not sure ill get it on the drive as its too tight a swing. Would an extra metre or so make a huge difference to parking? Maybe in the UK perhaps but your stuffed most places here anyway with a 7 metre van. Secondary transport is important though. Push bikes I guess. We carry a scooter but no good for a family. Push bikes or for the occasions you are in the UK a A Frame with a Nissan micra on it or something.

[Derek Uzzell]

The only Europen-built genuine ‘tag-axle’ motorhomes are a few expensive Mercedes-based models made within the Pilote Groupe. A tag-axle configuration requires that the vehicle be rear-wheel-drive, with one axle being driven and the other not. At some time in the dim distant past (with a non-technical motorhome journalist almost certainly the culprit) the ‘tag’ term began to be incorrectly used within the UK motorhome community for front-wheel-drive models that have a pair of unpowered rear axles. The French term for a tandem rear-axle motorhome is “Camping-car double essieux” and does not differentiate between RWD or FWD.

 

This 2017 MHFun forum thread discuused the pros and cons of tandem rear-axle designs

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/tag-axle-good-and-bad-points-please.158325/

 

The configuration inevitably results in a long wheelbase that translates into a wide turning circle. The rear tyres will ’scrub’ during tight manoeuvring and there have been plenty of complaints about obtaining a handbrake sufficiently effective to meet the UK MOT test’s requirements. The MHFun discussion also mentions paying Class 4 tolls on French autoroutes and that some French campsites forbid entry to twin rear-axle caravans or motorhomes.

[Tracker]

Motorhome shows can be a good source of comparison and getting info and there is one at Malvern this coming weekend if it is not too far? It's free entry but prebooking should speed up the entry process.

 

A wander around the camping area on a warm afternoon often leads to some chat with owners of the size or make of van you seek as by and large they are a friendly bunch - but beware of grumpy exceptions!

[Bullet]

Update....yesterday we took a trip around a number of dealers and love the Bailey Autograph 81-6. It fits the bill for everything we need.

 

I’ve bought a number of cars over the years and have a good grasp on trying to get the best deal - Is there anything different to know about getting the best deal out of a motorhome purchase....start on basic price, then aim to get any extras thrown in?

[david lloyd]

Not sure where in the country you are or how far the dealer is but you should be getting a warranty - if they are some distance from you then try to negotiate that they will allow you to take it to your nearest NCC registered repairer. Many will not do this in the motorhome world - especially on new vehicles - but our Worcester motorhome was bought from Stewart Mouland near Brighton some 300 miles from home - at the time it was the only Worcester of the market. They readily agreed to me using the people I regularly use for work/servicing (Leisuretech North East) and, when one problem did occur, agreed to me taking it to them for repair without quibbling.

 

David

[ron.]

Others have mentioned it, and it cannot be stressed to much, that your first priority has to be an adequate payload. Under no circumstances accept any figures quoted as gospel, even for new vehicles. New builds usually have a plus or minus tolerance of 5% before anything else is taken into account so you can see just one problem. New or secondhand get the vehicle weighed, its the only way. Also what comprises payload figures are not quoted to a level playing field. For instance some manufacturers payload figures are based on you travelling around carrying no more than a thimble-full of water. If you want to spend your holidays forever taking on and dumping water than this is fine but I wouldn't recommend it. This is only one example to watch out

[Brian Kirby]

Bullet - 2020-08-12 11:43 AM

 

Update....yesterday we took a trip around a number of dealers and love the Bailey Autograph 81-6. It fits the bill for everything we need.

 

I’ve bought a number of cars over the years and have a good grasp on trying to get the best deal - Is there anything different to know about getting the best deal out of a motorhome purchase....start on basic price, then aim to get any extras thrown in?

Three comments on the van itself.

 

If you want to go for it, I'd enquire if it can be had minus the built in sat-nav. They're fine when new, but keeping the maps and software updated can be a pain compared to portable sat navs, as can installing your personal points of interest. Also the technology changes continually so they all end up obsolescent and changing a portable sat nav is much easier, and usually cheaper, than trying to swap out a dash mounted one.

 

Second, make sure you know, and understand, exactly what that MRO figure includes. Note that no fresh water is included, but that the fresh water tank is 95L capacity - so fill that and 95kg immediately disappears from your payload. You must then deduct the weight of your family, adjusting the nominal 75kg driver as necessary. Then allow for the fact that all three children are still growing. :-) Remember also that anything and everything you put into the van, including mains lead, second gas cylinder (my full 6kg cylinder weighs 15.3kg, not 14kg per Bailey), levelling ramps, food, booze, books, toys, cutlery, bedding, clothing, crockery, kettle, etc etc. all absorb payload. You should be OK, but depending on what additional options/extras you specify, I think you'll be surprised how close you run, especially bearing in mind that each axle has its own maximum load limit, and that you will almost inevitably run out of permissible axle load at one end, most probably the rear, before you've used up all that 830kg of theoretical payload.

 

Finally, for a van that size, I think 2 x 6kg gas cylinders is derisory! :-D

 

Overall, it's a long (8.1M), wide (2.5M), heavy (4.25 tonne) van that will have a large turning circle and will be quite a challenge in some UK supermarket car parks (and a few non supermarket - chargeable - ones as well!). This may limit places you can access, especially where approach roads are tight. Finally, it has no spare wheel as standard, and the spare will deduct a further (claimed) 29kg from the payload, and it'll go right at the rear, so will add more than 29kg to the rear axle load.

 

May I now make a suggestion before you take your purchase too far? Follow this link https://tinyurl.com/yxwc7vwu buy the book, and read it! It is highly informative, written by two enthusiastic and knowledgeable motorhomers, and will answer many questions including a few you haven't yet thought of!

[Bullet]

Thanks for all the advice - I know what you mean by the Sat Nav - same in my car!!

 

We should be ok with payload - we’ve got 850kg to play with an a MTPLM of 4250kg (I’ve got a C1).....although if you factor in the red wine 8-)

 

The size will no doubt have limitations on where we can park but I think it’s something we’ll have to bite the bullet on - any smaller and we won’t have the space and can’t for one second see a 400kg payload per se being any good for us!

 

It comes with a 3 year warranty and 6 years on the body and only a bike ride away from the dealer

 

Good shout on the spare wheel - think this one has passed me by so far! Book now on order - thanks!

[ron.]

Good point about the Vicarious book Brian, and at that price it's a steal. We've been motorhoming for around 50 years and still found it a refreshing read.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2020-08-12 5:51 PM

 

...Finally, for a van that size, I think 2 x 6kg gas cylinders is derisory! :-D

 

 

If I remember correctly, the door of Bailey gas-lockers used to be sized for gas canisters with a diameter no larger than that of a Calor 6kg bottle. This was fine in the UK, but problems could arise abroad in countries (eg. France) where canisters were wider.

 

This limitation was mentioned in Steve928’s posting of 20 January 2018 10:01 AM in the following forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-in-France-Pas-de-Calor/48524/

 

If that’s still the case and touring regularly outside the UK is envisaged, it might make sense to ‘invest’ in a user-refillable gas bottle.

 

The Autograph 81-6 model has a helluva rear overhang (image below) and is a prime candidate for retro-fitting ‘air assistance' to the rear suspension to address the real risk of grounding at the rear. Not a cheap exercise as the 81-6 is built on an AL-KO AMC chassis.

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-08-13 3:15 PM

 

The Autograph 81-6 model has a helluva rear overhang (image below) and is a prime candidate for retro-fitting ‘air assistance' to the rear suspension to address the real risk of grounding at the rear. Not a cheap exercise as the 81-6 is built on an AL-KO AMC chassis.

 

 

....and potentially 5 bikes hanging off the back 8-) ?

 

I'm not trying to be negative, but there are a few points you ought to consider before such a big purchase.

 

That's not something I'd want to do, not only because of the rear loading, but also because of the closely spaced mounting points which are factory-fitted - there will be a lot of stress on the rear-wall.

 

I've travelled with kids for years, up to their mid-teens. I was never entirely happy with four bikes on the back and a considerably shorter overhang.

 

Having said that, with 2 kids we got away quite nicely with a Benimar of broadly that layout, but with an overcab rather than drop-down bed. It gave both kids and parents their own space. I think you'll find it rather claustrophobic with the drop-down bed and 5 of you.

 

I'm not a fan of Bailey (nothing specific, simply personal) and I think many British vans fail the liveability test for families.

 

Frankly, one of the constraints that is apparent is the need for 5 seatbelts (5 usable berths is only a bit easier), but I think I would be looking at a continental 'van with a garage with transverse or longitudinal beds above. That allows 2 or 3 bikes inside (with the outdoor "junk" and minimises the weight and overhang of further bikes on the back. IMO the ideal solution would be an 'A' Class with the former, a front drop-down bed, and a side bed as well. Built on a Maxi and rated to 4.4/4.5t payload wouldn't be a problem. Travel is normally slightly better for those in the back due to a (bit of a) view through the large windscreen.

 

If only they did, say, a Hymer B678 with 5 seats/berths rather than 4!

 

New would be out of the budget range, but there are some good s/h buys around, albeit, as I say, 5 belts and berths (though rear beds over garages would normally take three kids), will be as rare as rocking-horse droppings.