StephDeLux Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 spirou - 2020-08-19 11:04 PM Unfortunately for most, common sense is anything but common. And related to that is the ability to follow, read and understand scientific discussions and findings. It's just a natural progress of things that most science these days goes waaaaaay over the heads of most people on earth. Even, and often, also scientists. One thing is certainly true, people trust and support science in general only as long as it agrees with their views. On the points where it doesn't, no ammount of persuasion will convince them otherwise and they are quick to forget (if they ever understood) the scientific process and method. Note I'm not claiming science and scientists are perfect or that anything is ever settled for good. But eventually the process leads to decent enough approximations within certain constraints. To ignore the current consensus simply because it conflicts with your views, not via credible and verified counter arguments, is what separates a true sceptic from a conspiracy theorist. In other words, stop cherry picking long debunked theories. It will take a lot of effort on your part to design and adequately test a hypothesis that will change the consensus on most topics. That most people (sadly not all) trust earth is round and revolves around the sun is a prime example of just that process of introducing a radical new theory but one that was backed by solid evidence that even the most stubborn traditionalists (i.e. old farts who liked the status quo) couldn't argue against with any credibility no matter how the odds were stacked against it in the beginning. To turn this argument upside down is somewhat ironic to say the least. Not that I'm expecting to convince anyone either way... but science abuse (i.e. pseudoscience) is a bit of a sore point. You mention a consensus. If there were proofs, there would be no need for consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo37 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Where did the idea of 10 years come from? UK Gov to set legally binding particle emission targets in 2 years. Welsh Gov planning to pass a new Clean Air Act next year. Pressure on Scottish Gov to move more quickly on air pollution schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo37 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Tracker - 2020-08-18 5:33 PM I have never felt in the least bit guilty when I consider how insignificantly small my personal pollution is compared to carbon belching shipping, aircraft, power stations, industrial production, deforestation and too many others to mention. When they all put their house in order I may think differently but holdinmg my breath while I wait I am not! I won't even contemplate giving up meat or reducing farting - few enough pleasures left these days as it is! Typical enviiron mentalists to target the soft targets first - you and me - first. Global warming is not caused by burning, it's caused by political hot air. There you have the issue in a nutshell. There are millions of individuals, probably tens of millions in the UK alone, who also think their own personal pollution is insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Malo37 - 2020-08-20 10:43 AM Tracker - 2020-08-18 5:33 PM I have never felt in the least bit guilty when I consider how insignificantly small my personal pollution is compared to carbon belching shipping, aircraft, power stations, industrial production, deforestation and too many others to mention. When they all put their house in order I may think differently but holdinmg my breath while I wait I am not! I won't even contemplate giving up meat or reducing farting - few enough pleasures left these days as it is! Typical enviiron mentalists to target the soft targets first - you and me - first. Global warming is not caused by burning, it's caused by political hot air. There you have the issue in a nutshell. There are millions of individuals, probably tens of millions in the UK alone, who also think their own personal pollution is insignificant. I hope that doesn't mean that millions of people who are entitled to an opinion and a vote a wrong and only you and a minority of fellow campaigners are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 StephDeLux - 2020-08-20 9:47 AM You mention a consensus. If there were proofs, there would be no need for consensus. A consensus in this case is a sum of knowledge based on numerous very, very particular studies where each individual result/conclusion adds a miniscule ammount to the big picture and a large majority points in the same direction. There is no one big proof of anything in science these days. Just cogs in a giant machine, or cells, DNA etc. in a body if you will. It is also something the general public usually has a problem grasping, and scientists a problem explaining. Each individual study does not really (dis)prove anything, just adds something new within certain narrow constraints and limitations. For instance, people study methods of removing all sorts of bias out of raw data, either mathematicaly or experimentally from the point of view of physics, chemistry, biology...Because you simply cannot reliably compare data (lets say temperature records or air quality parameters) captured from countless devices of (un)known accuracy, microlocation bias and other specifics of each individual stream of data without adjusting for likely errors. But you first need to study what those errors might be. ...only to find themselves under attack by some internet loonies accusing them of falsifying data to arrive at whatever results they want. Which is actually the opposite of what the motivation for investigation was in the first place. Anyway, the IPCC reports are the closest thing to a summary of the vast climate knowledge base and even that is beyond what a majority is willing and able to spend studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephDeLux Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 spirou - 2020-08-20 12:47 PM Anyway, the IPCC reports are the closest thing to a summary of the vast climate knowledge base and even that is beyond what a majority is willing and able to spend studying. Thanks. At least you made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 And should the sun go out, non of this will mater a jot. lol Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 For those that do not believe that diesel engines are contributing to climate change, perhaps they might think about their impact on health. During the lockdown millions of people with repiratory conditions experienced reduced symptons as a result of improved air quality (this is from the British Lung Foundation). There are now calls for clean air zones in cities and towns and if this comes to pass there will be even more restrictions on where diesel (and petrol) vehicles are allowed to go. Or maybe people believe the old US VW adverts that suggested that the fumes coming out the back of a car were purer than the air going in? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 StuartO - 2020-08-20 11:05 AM Malo37 - 2020-08-20 10:43 AM Tracker - 2020-08-18 5:33 PM I have never felt in the least bit guilty when I consider how insignificantly small my personal pollution is compared to carbon belching shipping, aircraft, power stations, industrial production, deforestation and too many others to mention. When they all put their house in order I may think differently but holdinmg my breath while I wait I am not! I won't even contemplate giving up meat or reducing farting - few enough pleasures left these days as it is! Typical enviiron mentalists to target the soft targets first - you and me - first. Global warming is not caused by burning, it's caused by political hot air. There you have the issue in a nutshell. There are millions of individuals, probably tens of millions in the UK alone, who also think their own personal pollution is insignificant. I hope that doesn't mean that millions of people who are entitled to an opinion and a vote a wrong and only you and a minority of fellow campaigners are right. I am not saying my stated point of view is right - or wrong. I'm not saying the GW theorists are wrong - or right. I'm just not convinced that what is conveniently being attributed to 'mankind' is in fact attributable to planetary evolution. Either way it would make sense for the sake of everyone and the planel to destroy less and consume less and that aspect mankind can affect - but I'm not holding my breath while I wait. I can get very cynical whenever I consider how well the 'experts' have historically managed the world and how well they are now 'expertly' running the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo37 Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 Tracker - 2020-08-22 10:55 AM StuartO - 2020-08-20 11:05 AM Malo37 - 2020-08-20 10:43 AM Tracker - 2020-08-18 5:33 PM I have never felt in the least bit guilty when I consider how insignificantly small my personal pollution is compared to carbon belching shipping, aircraft, power stations, industrial production, deforestation and too many others to mention. When they all put their house in order I may think differently but holdinmg my breath while I wait I am not! I won't even contemplate giving up meat or reducing farting - few enough pleasures left these days as it is! Typical enviiron mentalists to target the soft targets first - you and me - first. Global warming is not caused by burning, it's caused by political hot air. There you have the issue in a nutshell. There are millions of individuals, probably tens of millions in the UK alone, who also think their own personal pollution is insignificant. I hope that doesn't mean that millions of people who are entitled to an opinion and a vote a wrong and only you and a minority of fellow campaigners are right. I am not saying my stated point of view is right - or wrong. I'm not saying the GW theorists are wrong - or right. I'm just not convinced that what is conveniently being attributed to 'mankind' is in fact attributable to planetary evolution. Either way it would make sense for the sake of everyone and the planel to destroy less and consume less and that aspect mankind can affect - but I'm not holding my breath while I wait. I can get very cynical whenever I consider how well the 'experts' have historically managed the world and how well they are now 'expertly' running the planet. Well there are no such things as GW theorists. GW is evidence based fact (unless you are a Trump supporter or a flat earther ?) Unfortunately, the planet is run by Politicians, not by experts. Most senior politicians have a short term view overlaid with a desire to retain power at almost any cost. Not the ideal combination for the custodians of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 This thread began to stray off-topic 5 days ago and has now run its course. If general subjects (like global warming and/or governments) are to be discussed, please do this on the Chatterbox forum. There continues to be a tendency to use the forum’s QUOTE button unnecessarily and indiscriminately (a favorite pastime for Chatterboxers). The habit was highlighted within this March 2020 discussion in the relevant postings by Keithl and me (both of us forum moderators) https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Stranded-in-Spain-pt-2-/54728/31/ If you want to reply to a posting, please try to use the REPLY button, starting your reply with the poster’s forum user-name. If using the QUOTE button is felt to be helpful/essential (and sometimes it will be) please minimise how you do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.