Bulletguy Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:21 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Nope its my way of saying all Communists cant be as Dumb as you Bullet Liar >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:21 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Nope its my way of saying all Communists cant be as Dumb as you Bullet Liar >:-) ....... So you accept Communists, Marxists and Leninists are Brexiteers......just that it's been difficult for you Walter Pinocchio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 10:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:21 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Nope its my way of saying all Communists cant be as Dumb as you Bullet Liar >:-) ....... So you accept Communists, Marxists and Leninists are Brexiteers......just that it's been difficult for you Walter Pinocchio. Nope......I accept that not all Communists are compulsive Liars like you, and some had the good sense to vote for Brexit ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-21 10:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 10:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:21 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Nope its my way of saying all Communists cant be as Dumb as you Bullet Liar >:-) ....... So you accept Communists, Marxists and Leninists are Brexiteers......just that it's been difficult for you Walter Pinocchio. Nope......I accept that not all Communists are compulsive Liars like you, and some had the good sense to vote for Brexit ;-) ...... Unlike you i've never had a compulsion to lie Parasiteman.....you're boasting about your long established history of pathological lying which has earned you the Walter Mitty/Pinocchio names. You live in a fantasy world of half truths and fiction regularly given to boasting about them as some kind of personal achievements you think will impress folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 10:33 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 10:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 10:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:21 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Nope its my way of saying all Communists cant be as Dumb as you Bullet Liar >:-) ....... So you accept Communists, Marxists and Leninists are Brexiteers......just that it's been difficult for you Walter Pinocchio. Nope......I accept that not all Communists are compulsive Liars like you, and some had the good sense to vote for Brexit ;-) ...... Unlike you i've never had a compulsion to lie Parasiteman.....you're boasting about your long established history of pathological lying which has earned you the Walter Mitty/Pinocchio names. You live in a fantasy world of half truths and fiction regularly given to boasting about them as some kind of personal achievements you think will impress folk. Snigger >:-) ....... I can back up my claims/boasts Bullet Liar ;-) ......... Just because you've had a sad empty life, it doesn't mean we all have? :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-21 10:44 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 10:33 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 10:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 10:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:21 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 9:07 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 9:04 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:41 PM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 8:32 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ We've known about the Marxists for some time, and the Communists and Leninists as they're all Brexiters. I've lost count of the number of times i've had to keep reminding you. *-) https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave Snigger.......You really are Dumbf*ck aintcha Bullet Liar (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ https://www.communistparty.org.uk/?s=brexit Isn't time you stopped Liying? >:-) ......... The Dumbfcuk is you Parasite Pinocchio. The CPB party emerged from a dispute between Eurocommunists and Marxist-Leninists in the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1988. Communists, Marxists and Leninists support Brexit. It's very clearly stated; https://www.cpbml.org.uk/leave You don't like seeing it because you equate Communism with hard left wing and cannot think outside your tiny little blinkered box. Fancy you knowing about the ins and outs of UK Communists?.........Comrade (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Is that your way of finally accepting Communists, Marxist and Leninists are Brexiteers? Why so stubborn when it's been staring you in the face the past four years? *-) Nope its my way of saying all Communists cant be as Dumb as you Bullet Liar >:-) ....... So you accept Communists, Marxists and Leninists are Brexiteers......just that it's been difficult for you Walter Pinocchio. Nope......I accept that not all Communists are compulsive Liars like you, and some had the good sense to vote for Brexit ;-) ...... Unlike you i've never had a compulsion to lie Parasiteman.....you're boasting about your long established history of pathological lying which has earned you the Walter Mitty/Pinocchio names. You live in a fantasy world of half truths and fiction regularly given to boasting about them as some kind of personal achievements you think will impress folk. Snigger >:-) ....... Typical "i'm stuck" response. *-) I can back up my claims/boasts Bullet Liar ;-) ......... You don't though. You're still sore because I called you on your silly bet by raising you and you didn't expect that. You lost the bet, and your house, because you didn't meet the one hour deadline to show the evidence. You showed you aren't a person to be trusted. Just because you've had a sad empty life, it doesn't mean we all have? :D ...... You don't seem to have done much with yours. Lets face it your "touring" consisted of driving to Spain to sit on a carpark for six months where you did what? Sat arguing on a forum every day and then drove back home six months later. *-) Not that you do much different there either. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:16 PM StuartO - 2020-11-21 11:15 AM This slogan has been prominent recently and got me thinking about who the accusation is addressed to - is to UK whites (as part of the Black Lives Matter movement) because who else in UK should be the accused? Is someone accusing me, and of what? Otherwise how can a whole Country (of people, I assume) be accused of being guilty of something? There are associated slogans such as "Your Silence is Violence" or, more specifically, "White Silence is Violence" and "All Lives don't matter until Black Lives Matter" How do I come into this? Am I being accused personally? Am I getting something wrong simply because I'm not immediately joining in with this protest? Am I not allowed to listen and then decide for myself whether to support or vote for something in our democracy? And for example is Lewis Hamilton right to try to coerce other F1 drivers (who are all white) to join his knee-on-the-grid BLM campaign because he feels strongly about it and believes others should? If he feels as strongly as that should we not be able to question the rationale of his personal commitment - and also his financial support (as a multimillionaire) to the BLM movement? If the cause is so pressing and so important as a moral necessity, is it only white people, or at least some of us white people, who are getting it wrong? Haven't seen the slogan, and a web search drew no hits. I find it impossible to understand life from the standpoint of people who face prejudice because of their looks. But, if your point is to argue that the UK is innocent, then I think you have quite a challenge, whether it be the slaughter by Cromwell at Drogheda, our dominant involvement in the slave trade, the putting down of the Scottish clans, or any other of a number of actions we'd prefer not to talk about. We are, as are all nations, a series of accidents of history, some good, some bad. We tend, I think unhealthily, only to celebrate our victories and achievements, among which are some truly liberating and life- enhancing gifts to humanity, at the expense of our less noble and at times highly destructive past acts. So, we are being challenged over our past actions as imperialists and slave owners and traders by some of those who still suffer the consequences of our past actions. We are being "encouraged" to take responsibility of the impact of our actions (think Windrush, think no blacks, no Irish, no dogs!) on those who are still disadvantaged in numerous ways by our present attitudes, and by the hangover of our historic actions, and to begin to put right the present inequalities they suffer. It is bound to be a "difficult" conversation, and those promoting it don't always do themselves many favours by the way they conduct it. But it is IMO time the wrongs were righted - for our mutual benefit. They are trying to put a "worm" into all our heads, to make us think about the circumstances that brought them here, and the way we still too often treat them today. They live here, but they are too often reminded that they are, despite having lived here in some cases (as families) for several hundred years, not a part of "us". I was not arguing that UK is innocent but questionning what it means to accuse the UK (as a whole or in parts?) of an offence - and perhaps a challenge to make a remedy. Are we talking selected UK residents hold responsibility (i.e. principally the indiginous whites) and if so are we talking all whites or just the tiny minority who are decendents of those few who profited from slavery, whether or not they personally inherited any benefit? Or are all current UK whites being accused of inflicting "white privilege" on some or all non-whites, whether they realise it or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 11:01 PM You don't seem to have done much with yours. Lets face it your "touring" consisted of driving to Spain to sit on a carpark for six months where you did what? Sat arguing on a forum every day and then drove back home six months later. *-) Not that you do much different there either. *-) At least I've spent time in Spain ;-) .......... How long did you spend before you ran away? :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 11:01 PM You don't though. You're still sore because I called you on your silly bet by raising you and you didn't expect that. You lost the bet, and your house, because you didn't meet the one hour deadline to show the evidence. You showed you aren't a person to be trusted. More flimflam from the forums PROVEN LIAR *-) ......... If you think you won then take me to court Mr Bullet Liar >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-22 9:47 AM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 11:01 PM You don't seem to have done much with yours. Lets face it your "touring" consisted of driving to Spain to sit on a carpark for six months where you did what? Sat arguing on a forum every day and then drove back home six months later. *-) Not that you do much different there either. *-) At least I've spent time in Spain ;-) .......... How long did you spend before you ran away? :D ......... Done time..you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-11-22 10:47 AM pelmetman - 2020-11-22 9:47 AM Bulletguy - 2020-11-21 11:01 PM You don't seem to have done much with yours. Lets face it your "touring" consisted of driving to Spain to sit on a carpark for six months where you did what? Sat arguing on a forum every day and then drove back home six months later. *-) Not that you do much different there either. *-) At least I've spent time in Spain ;-) .......... How long did you spend before you ran away? :D ......... Done time..you mean. Now you're doing a Bullet Liar and spreading lies about me *-) .......... I have only ever been to court once as a witness to a fatal RTA and once to sue a bad payer (I won), I nearly went to the Old Bailey as a witness in a double murder trial but managed to avoid it ;-) ......... Oh and I've had 3 speeding tickets......all in all a pretty blameless life B-) ....... How about you? :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ Now, now, Dave. I asked you three questions above, and answers came there none! So again, who is "our", who is "they", and what does "use our history against us" mean? They are your own words, so you must have some idea what they mean. Or were you just sounding off without checking your facts again? Sorry to press you, but you do have form in that department. I'm just trying to work out whether you expect anything you post to be taken seriously, or just dismissed as the ramblings of a bitter and resentful (prematurely) old man. So, last try. "Us" is the non-communists, and "they" are the communists? Is that right? If so, what is all this "rewriting" stuff about? What, of our history, is being rewritten, by whom, and when? You said it, so you must know, mustn't you? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 StuartO - 2020-11-22 9:40 AM..............................................I was not arguing that UK is innocent but questionning what it means to accuse the UK (as a whole or in parts?) of an offence - and perhaps a challenge to make a remedy. Are we talking selected UK residents hold responsibility (i.e. principally the indiginous whites) and if so are we talking all whites or just the tiny minority who are decendents of those few who profited from slavery, whether or not they personally inherited any benefit? Or are all current UK whites being accused of inflicting "white privilege" on some or all non-whites, whether they realise it or not? We tend to celebrate our history as a story of great achievements in terms of the parliamentary democracy we exported to much of the world, our scientific discoveries, our legal system, our industrial development, our financial acumen, etc. etc. - but in doing so we also tend to brush to one side the other side of our coin. We are, of course far from unique in this. Most countries that have developed over, arguably, 1,000 years have their confirmatory myths and legends. But there are passages in our history where we did others great harm. I think a little modesty and honesty on our part in these areas might be beneficial. I'm not referring to our ability to defend ourselves when attacked, but our whole, smug, self-aggrandising presumption of right, based on no more than selected, favourable, events. British exceptionalism, if you will. Our role in the slave trade is a case in point. Yes, others also traded slaves in that infamous "triangular trade", but that does nothing to detract from our own involvement. The "they did it too" defence hardly carries much weight. Yes, the country that engaged in that trade is not the same country country as we live in today, but the Royal Navy was still deployed in defence of the trade, and it is still called the Royal Navy. The trade may have begun with buccaneering private companies, but it ended with those companies, in effect, being absorbed into the state. The British state facilitated and supported the trade, before eventually being persuaded to legislate to abolish it. That history, as with a number of other instances of past reprehensible behaviour, leaves a long shadow. It coloured attitudes to black people that persist today. I don't think it is the history that that generates the present tensions - they come from today in response to the degree of prejudice black people still encounter in the UK. But, the history gives those arguing for an end to the inequalities caused by the prejudice, a stick with which to poke us, because we so greatly prefer to dwell on the righteousness of our actions to abolish it - after our 400 year involvement in promoting it. Some, at least, of those impacted by their treatment today, must wonder daily how non-black Britons will respond to them wherever they are, whatever they do. We are better now than we were, but that too, is a faint defence. We were, in places, and at times, overtly hostile to black people, especially those from the Caribbean who we had invited to help re-build post war Britain, and many of those people are still with us, but will have told their children of their early experiences, so their children, who are now adults, will carry the expectations not only of their own experiences at school and when seeking employment, but vicariously those of their parents. Too many have had raw deals from us, the established inhabitants of the UK. If we want harmonious co-existence, we have to accommodate their claims and remedy their grievances. We have to be prepared to see ourselves through their eyes, and somehow eradicate the prejudices they experience. They are just one more group of people who have migrated to the UK over the course of our history. We generally seem to have managed to absorb the others, albeit with varying degrees of success over time, to the extent that I doubt many of us can claim direct lineage from, well, who? The Angles, Saxons, Frisians and Jutes who preceded the Romans, the "Vikings", the Normans, or any of those who came later, right up to those arriving from around the world today. Which begs the question, who, actually, are "we", us British? A pretty polyglot lot, by all accounts. So, to your question. I don't think it is any one of us in particular that is being addressed, about any single incident in our past, but all of us together with all of our accumulated history. The history is ours, warts and all, and we should be prepared own it, warts and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-22 7:29 PM StuartO - 2020-11-22 9:40 AM..............................................I was not arguing that UK is innocent but questionning what it means to accuse the UK (as a whole or in parts?) of an offence - and perhaps a challenge to make a remedy. Are we talking selected UK residents hold responsibility (i.e. principally the indiginous whites) and if so are we talking all whites or just the tiny minority who are decendents of those few who profited from slavery, whether or not they personally inherited any benefit? Or are all current UK whites being accused of inflicting "white privilege" on some or all non-whites, whether they realise it or not? We tend to celebrate our history as a story of great achievements in terms of the parliamentary democracy we exported to much of the world, our scientific discoveries, our legal system, our industrial development, our financial acumen, etc. etc. - but in doing so we also tend to brush to one side the other side of our coin. We are, of course far from unique in this. Most countries that have developed over, arguably, 1,000 years have their confirmatory myths and legends. But there are passages in our history where we did others great harm. I think a little modesty and honesty on our part in these areas might be beneficial. I'm not referring to our ability to defend ourselves when attacked, but our whole, smug, self-aggrandising presumption of right, based on no more than selected, favourable, events. British exceptionalism, if you will. Our role in the slave trade is a case in point. Yes, others also traded slaves in that infamous "triangular trade", but that does nothing to detract from our own involvement. The "they did it too" defence hardly carries much weight. Yes, the country that engaged in that trade is not the same country country as we live in today, but the Royal Navy was still deployed in defence of the trade, and it is still called the Royal Navy. The trade may have begun with buccaneering private companies, but it ended with those companies, in effect, being absorbed into the state. The British state facilitated and supported the trade, before eventually being persuaded to legislate to abolish it. That history, as with a number of other instances of past reprehensible behaviour, leaves a long shadow. It coloured attitudes to black people that persist today. I don't think it is the history that that generates the present tensions - they come from today in response to the degree of prejudice black people still encounter in the UK. But, the history gives those arguing for an end to the inequalities caused by the prejudice, a stick with which to poke us, because we so greatly prefer to dwell on the righteousness of our actions to abolish it - after our 400 year involvement in promoting it. Some, at least, of those impacted by their treatment today, must wonder daily how non-black Britons will respond to them wherever they are, whatever they do. We are better now than we were, but that too, is a faint defence. We were, in places, and at times, overtly hostile to black people, especially those from the Caribbean who we had invited to help re-build post war Britain, and many of those people are still with us, but will have told their children of their early experiences, so their children, who are now adults, will carry the expectations not only of their own experiences at school and when seeking employment, but vicariously those of their parents. Too many have had raw deals from us, the established inhabitants of the UK. If we want harmonious co-existence, we have to accommodate their claims and remedy their grievances. We have to be prepared to see ourselves through their eyes, and somehow eradicate the prejudices they experience. They are just one more group of people who have migrated to the UK over the course of our history. We generally seem to have managed to absorb the others, albeit with varying degrees of success over time, to the extent that I doubt many of us can claim direct lineage from, well, who? The Angles, Saxons, Frisians and Jutes who preceded the Romans, the "Vikings", the Normans, or any of those who came later, right up to those arriving from around the world today. Which begs the question, who, actually, are "we", us British? A pretty polyglot lot, by all accounts. So, to your question. I don't think it is any one of us in particular that is being addressed, about any single incident in our past, but all of us together with all of our accumulated history. The history is ours, warts and all, and we should be prepared own it, warts and all. Do you expect modern Germans to "own" WW2 atrocities from only 80 years ago the same ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Look at Diego Garcia, look at what we did and are still doing to the previous inhabitants. Look at the Palestinian/Israeli problem,created by us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 That doesn’t make sense to me at all Brian. My surname originates from around 800AD in this land and social mobility didn’t arise until after WW2 in my family so my ancestors were as good as slaves under the feudal system followed by Working industrial class so it’s pretty unlikely that they ever had any benefit from slavery or that they had any intact with anyone other than their own kind until after WW2 and immigrants prior to the arrival of lots of South Asian workers for the dying Cotton Industry. I was the first to achieve anything other than a working class role in life. If there is responsibility for historical anything I can’t see how it makes any sense to accuse me or my family of anything except becoming resentful when the Asian communities in East Lancashire (after I had left) became so numerous and overtly tribal that they started taking over. The first person “of colour” I had any personal dealings with was the son of a Nigerian judge with whom I shared a body in the Anatomy Dissection Room and we got on fine. He became an orthopaedic surgeon and moved to Texas, invented a clever gadget and made millions. Colour simply wasn’t an element in our relationship; we were both busy enough coping with being foreigners in Glasgow. You’re welcome to feel responsibility for the dark side of British history if you want to but I certainly don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 StuartO - 2020-11-22 8:18 PM That doesn’t make sense to me at all Brian. My surname originates from around 800AD in this land and social mobility didn’t arise until after WW2 in my family so my ancestors were as good as slaves under the feudal system followed by Working industrial class so it’s pretty unlikely that they ever had any benefit from slavery or that they had any intact with anyone other than their own kind until after WW2 and immigrants prior to the arrival of lots of South Asian workers for the dying Cotton Industry. I was the first to achieve anything other than a working class role in life. If there is responsibility for historical anything I can’t see how it makes any sense to accuse me or my family of anything except becoming resentful when the Asian communities in East Lancashire (after I had left) became so numerous and overtly tribal that they started taking over. The first person “of colour” I had any personal dealings with was the son of a Nigerian judge with whom I shared a body in the Anatomy Dissection Room and we got on fine. He became an orthopaedic surgeon and moved to Texas, invented a clever gadget and made millions. Colour simply wasn’t an element in our relationship; we were both busy enough coping with being foreigners in Glasgow. You’re welcome to feel responsibility for the dark side of British history if you want to but I certainly don’t. Brian world ... Other European countries with a colonial history good ... Us with a colonial history bad ... Makes me laugh, why those like Brian want to live in the past and hate his own country for that past yet in many countries today much worse atrocities happen than ever happened under British rule and the Brians of the world stay quiet ... Wonder why ... Hate on Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-22 6:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ Now, now, Dave. I asked you three questions above, and answers came there none! So again, who is "our", who is "they", and what does "use our history against us" mean? They are your own words, so you must have some idea what they mean. Or were you just sounding off without checking your facts again? Sorry to press you, but you do have form in that department. I'm just trying to work out whether you expect anything you post to be taken seriously, or just dismissed as the ramblings of a bitter and resentful (prematurely) old man. So, last try. "Us" is the non-communists, and "they" are the communists? Is that right? If so, what is all this "rewriting" stuff about? What, of our history, is being rewritten, by whom, and when? You said it, so you must know, mustn't you? :-D You've wasted your last try ;-) .......... I gave up on you Losers years ago *-) ......... I get my kicks just by sounding off and annoying the hell out of you Losers nowadays :D ........ Have you not noticed? 8-) ......... I must try harder >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-11-22 8:40 PM StuartO - 2020-11-22 8:18 PM That doesn’t make sense to me at all Brian. My surname originates from around 800AD in this land and social mobility didn’t arise until after WW2 in my family so my ancestors were as good as slaves under the feudal system followed by Working industrial class so it’s pretty unlikely that they ever had any benefit from slavery or that they had any intact with anyone other than their own kind until after WW2 and immigrants prior to the arrival of lots of South Asian workers for the dying Cotton Industry. I was the first to achieve anything other than a working class role in life. If there is responsibility for historical anything I can’t see how it makes any sense to accuse me or my family of anything except becoming resentful when the Asian communities in East Lancashire (after I had left) became so numerous and overtly tribal that they started taking over. The first person “of colour” I had any personal dealings with was the son of a Nigerian judge with whom I shared a body in the Anatomy Dissection Room and we got on fine. He became an orthopaedic surgeon and moved to Texas, invented a clever gadget and made millions. Colour simply wasn’t an element in our relationship; we were both busy enough coping with being foreigners in Glasgow. You’re welcome to feel responsibility for the dark side of British history if you want to but I certainly don’t. Brian world ... Other European countries with a colonial history good ... Us with a colonial history bad ... Makes me laugh, why those like Brian want to live in the past and hate his own country for that past yet in many countries today much worse atrocities happen than ever happened under British rule and the Brians of the world stay quiet ... Wonder why ... Hate on Brian Brian's just another sad and bitter Loser who like his fellow Remoaners on here will twist anything to suit their Mr Angry agenda (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... I'm only hanging around on here for another 38 days......just purely to rub their noses in it >:-) ........ Then I'll be off B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-11-22 6:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ Now, now, Dave. I asked you three questions above, and answers came there none! So again, who is "our", who is "they", and what does "use our history against us" mean? They are your own words, so you must have some idea what they mean. Or were you just sounding off without checking your facts again? Sorry to press you, but you do have form in that department. I'm just trying to work out whether you expect anything you post to be taken seriously, or just dismissed as the ramblings of a bitter and resentful (prematurely) old man. So, last try. "Us" is the non-communists, and "they" are the communists? Is that right? If so, what is all this "rewriting" stuff about? What, of our history, is being rewritten, by whom, and when? You said it, so you must know, mustn't you? :-D From his nonsensical "answer" it's safe to say he doesn't know. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-11-23 2:51 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-22 6:13 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 8:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-11-21 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-21 6:23 PM......................There's nothing difficult about defending our country from those who would USE HISTORY against us *-) ....... Unless you're on their side? >:-) ......... Probably a pointless question, but who is "our" and who is "their". Do I detect racial prejudice here? Just askin'! :-D But then, what on earth does "use history against us" mean? If history is fact, how can it be "used against us"? It can't be denied, can it? Is your comfort zone being disrupted, or are you just being challenged to think too much? How's the itching? :-D Don't tell me you haven't noticed how the rabid Marxist left are rewriting OUR history to suit THEIR agenda? *-) ........ You LOSERS really are a desperate bunch 8-) ........ Now, now, Dave. I asked you three questions above, and answers came there none! So again, who is "our", who is "they", and what does "use our history against us" mean? They are your own words, so you must have some idea what they mean. Or were you just sounding off without checking your facts again? Sorry to press you, but you do have form in that department. I'm just trying to work out whether you expect anything you post to be taken seriously, or just dismissed as the ramblings of a bitter and resentful (prematurely) old man. So, last try. "Us" is the non-communists, and "they" are the communists? Is that right? If so, what is all this "rewriting" stuff about? What, of our history, is being rewritten, by whom, and when? You said it, so you must know, mustn't you? :-D From his nonsensical "answer" it's safe to say he doesn't know. :-| I see my W*nker button is working :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-23 8:29 AM Birdbrain - 2020-11-22 8:40 PM StuartO - 2020-11-22 8:18 PM That doesn’t make sense to me at all Brian. My surname originates from around 800AD in this land and social mobility didn’t arise until after WW2 in my family so my ancestors were as good as slaves under the feudal system followed by Working industrial class so it’s pretty unlikely that they ever had any benefit from slavery or that they had any intact with anyone other than their own kind until after WW2 and immigrants prior to the arrival of lots of South Asian workers for the dying Cotton Industry. I was the first to achieve anything other than a working class role in life. If there is responsibility for historical anything I can’t see how it makes any sense to accuse me or my family of anything except becoming resentful when the Asian communities in East Lancashire (after I had left) became so numerous and overtly tribal that they started taking over. The first person “of colour” I had any personal dealings with was the son of a Nigerian judge with whom I shared a body in the Anatomy Dissection Room and we got on fine. He became an orthopaedic surgeon and moved to Texas, invented a clever gadget and made millions. Colour simply wasn’t an element in our relationship; we were both busy enough coping with being foreigners in Glasgow. You’re welcome to feel responsibility for the dark side of British history if you want to but I certainly don’t. Brian world ... Other European countries with a colonial history good ... Us with a colonial history bad ... Makes me laugh, why those like Brian want to live in the past and hate his own country for that past yet in many countries today much worse atrocities happen than ever happened under British rule and the Brians of the world stay quiet ... Wonder why ... Hate on Brian Brian's just another sad and bitter Loser who like his fellow Remoaners on here will twist anything to suit their Mr Angry agenda (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... I'm only hanging around on here for another 38 days......just purely to rub their noses in it >:-) ........ Then I'll be off B-) ........ you and the rest of whats left of the social media Brexiteers I bet. Coward. I bet come the end of January you wont find anyone online that admits to voting for Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-11-23 3:40 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-23 8:29 AM Birdbrain - 2020-11-22 8:40 PM StuartO - 2020-11-22 8:18 PM That doesn’t make sense to me at all Brian. My surname originates from around 800AD in this land and social mobility didn’t arise until after WW2 in my family so my ancestors were as good as slaves under the feudal system followed by Working industrial class so it’s pretty unlikely that they ever had any benefit from slavery or that they had any intact with anyone other than their own kind until after WW2 and immigrants prior to the arrival of lots of South Asian workers for the dying Cotton Industry. I was the first to achieve anything other than a working class role in life. If there is responsibility for historical anything I can’t see how it makes any sense to accuse me or my family of anything except becoming resentful when the Asian communities in East Lancashire (after I had left) became so numerous and overtly tribal that they started taking over. The first person “of colour” I had any personal dealings with was the son of a Nigerian judge with whom I shared a body in the Anatomy Dissection Room and we got on fine. He became an orthopaedic surgeon and moved to Texas, invented a clever gadget and made millions. Colour simply wasn’t an element in our relationship; we were both busy enough coping with being foreigners in Glasgow. You’re welcome to feel responsibility for the dark side of British history if you want to but I certainly don’t. Brian world ... Other European countries with a colonial history good ... Us with a colonial history bad ... Makes me laugh, why those like Brian want to live in the past and hate his own country for that past yet in many countries today much worse atrocities happen than ever happened under British rule and the Brians of the world stay quiet ... Wonder why ... Hate on Brian Brian's just another sad and bitter Loser who like his fellow Remoaners on here will twist anything to suit their Mr Angry agenda (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... I'm only hanging around on here for another 38 days......just purely to rub their noses in it >:-) ........ Then I'll be off B-) ........ you and the rest of whats left of the social media Brexiteers I bet. Coward. I bet come the end of January you wont find anyone online that admits to voting for Brexit. Nope.......I'm b*ggering off because we will be mega busy next spring with building work starting hopefully B-) ......... Plus after 4 years of LOSER bitching even I have "had enough" *-) ........ I would of b*ggered off last January :D ....... But another Loser liar got me evicted before I could write my dear John :-| ....... So I'm still here for another 38 days at least......unless another Loser liar gets me kicked off >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-11-23 3:50 PM Barryd999 - 2020-11-23 3:40 PM pelmetman - 2020-11-23 8:29 AM Birdbrain - 2020-11-22 8:40 PM StuartO - 2020-11-22 8:18 PM That doesn’t make sense to me at all Brian. My surname originates from around 800AD in this land and social mobility didn’t arise until after WW2 in my family so my ancestors were as good as slaves under the feudal system followed by Working industrial class so it’s pretty unlikely that they ever had any benefit from slavery or that they had any intact with anyone other than their own kind until after WW2 and immigrants prior to the arrival of lots of South Asian workers for the dying Cotton Industry. I was the first to achieve anything other than a working class role in life. If there is responsibility for historical anything I can’t see how it makes any sense to accuse me or my family of anything except becoming resentful when the Asian communities in East Lancashire (after I had left) became so numerous and overtly tribal that they started taking over. The first person “of colour” I had any personal dealings with was the son of a Nigerian judge with whom I shared a body in the Anatomy Dissection Room and we got on fine. He became an orthopaedic surgeon and moved to Texas, invented a clever gadget and made millions. Colour simply wasn’t an element in our relationship; we were both busy enough coping with being foreigners in Glasgow. You’re welcome to feel responsibility for the dark side of British history if you want to but I certainly don’t. Brian world ... Other European countries with a colonial history good ... Us with a colonial history bad ... Makes me laugh, why those like Brian want to live in the past and hate his own country for that past yet in many countries today much worse atrocities happen than ever happened under British rule and the Brians of the world stay quiet ... Wonder why ... Hate on Brian Brian's just another sad and bitter Loser who like his fellow Remoaners on here will twist anything to suit their Mr Angry agenda (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... I'm only hanging around on here for another 38 days......just purely to rub their noses in it >:-) ........ Then I'll be off B-) ........ you and the rest of whats left of the social media Brexiteers I bet. Coward. I bet come the end of January you wont find anyone online that admits to voting for Brexit. Nope.......I'm b*ggering off because we will be mega busy next spring with building work starting hopefully B-) ......... Looks like another post worthy of bookmarking from Walter Parasiteman Mitty. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.