gassygassy Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 I have a 2009 Hobby on a Ford Transit base. When I connect to EHU the leisure battery charges OK but not the engine battery. I thought this was the way it is designed but In the current situation I need to keep the engine battery charged while it isn't going anywhere. So I wired a 'stud' to the +ve of the engine battery and mounted it, insulated, to the seat chassis alongside another stud fixed to the seat chassis for the -ve. I connect an intelligent battery charger to the 'studs', a brass bolt fixed into a large diameter rubber blind grommet takes the +ve. When I had the seat removed to get access to the engine battery I saw the obvious thick wire going to the engine, plus another pretty thick wire in blue disappearing into what I presume is the habitation electrics. It would seem to me fairly easy and obvious that the wiring designers at the Hobby factory could make the engine battery and the leisure battery both charge when on EHU. Specially as there is a thick wire going from the engine battery somewhere other than the engine. Am I missing something? I am curious to know what the thick blue cable is for. It has a fuse in line fairly shortly after leaving the engine battery +ve. Is there some sort of configuring that one can do to make the two batteries charge from EHU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 ..you haven't given us a lot of information on the identity of your 'van (Derek will have you shot at dawn ;-) ) or the detail of the electrics fitted, so advice is difficult to give. However, having owned a 2010 Hobby (with CBE electrics), I'm mildly surprised that there isn't any inbuilt capability. With the charger working, the CBE unit would divert a maximum of 2A as a trickle charge to the vehicle battery (and the 'van was wired to take advantage of it). A bit more info would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 Thanks Robin, I can give you whatever information would help. If you can help, I would be most greatful. I can recharge the engine battery using a separate battery charger but I would have thought it likely that Hobby would have it built in. As it is a 2009 model, it doesn't have a flashy touch screen main control panel, for which I am greatful. So either it was built not to charge the engine battery, or it was and it needs a fuse inserting, or there is a fault. I am a retired electronics engineer so I am happy to have a go at repairing pcbs and tracing circuitry. What doesn't help is the battery and some boxes of electronics being under the drivers seat. It wasn't obvious where the thick blue wire goes, that I am assuming is somehow connected to the habitation side. Everything in the habitation works perfectly, I have no problems there. I'll see if I can remove the seat again tomorrow, trace the blue wire and take some photos to attach. I appreciate your willingness to help :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 You have probably got a EBL99 or similar like on our Globecar. In my opinion the charging of vehicle battery is OK for when on a campsite and EHU, but not so great if you want to maintain the batteries in winter, it will put a high charge into leisure battery but only low charge into vehicle battery. I think if I hadn't already got a solar panel doing the job, then I'd fit the 'clive mott bridge', try a search for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 If it has CBE electrics, and a CB5nn charger, then the installation is designed, as I say, to trickle-charge the vehicle battery. Always assuming that the vehicle has been appropriately wired (it should have been from the factory), then that facility should be available at all times when the charger is running, with no user intervention. I may be wrong, but I'd think you will have a PC100/CB516 system, the wiring information for which can be downloaded here: https://www.rainbow-conversions.co.uk/user/downloads/CBE/CBE%20PC100%20&%20PC200%20instructions%20manual.pdf The instructions for the charger are here: https://www.cbe.it/newsite/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/000251A_04_CB510-516.pdf I'd partially agree with Colin that a max 2A charge is not sufficient to replenish a well-depleted vehicle battery, but it should be enough to maintain a decently-charged one over winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 Much appreciated, guys. I'll check what electronics it has tomorrow. When in winter storage I would imagine that 2A is plenty to keep the batteries charged. I have a 120W solar panel and MPPT regulator connected to the leisure battery. I have a proper motorhome cover over it at the moment and in daylight, enough light penetrates the cover to use the inside of the motorhome. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if the cover allows enough light through to the panel to put some charge in, but of course that is only to the LB as it is a single channel regulator. Previously I have had several of the 'Cheap Chinese' 2 channel regulators and I found them perfectly adequate to charge both batteries. This cover came with the vehicle when I bought it, and it doesn't seem as good as the other one I have which seemed to allow enough light in to keep both batteries charged. I'll take a look at the wiring tomorrow, I'll remove the thick blue wire from the EB and connect to EHU and see if there is any charging current flowing. However when I had EHU connected for a week and then removed it, pressed the relavent buttons on the control panel, the LB showed full charge and the EB showed 1/2 charge so that is why I was wondering if the EHU charges the EB. I would be surprised if the engine electrics take more current than is supplied by the EHU. Anyway it will be something interesting to do under cover in the rain. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Robinhood - 2020-12-26 8:02 PM ..you haven't given us a lot of information on the identity of your 'van (Derek will have you shot at dawn ;-) ) or the detail of the electrics fitted, so advice is difficult to give... A bit extreme perhaps,.. ;-) There is an entry at the top of the Motorhome Matters forum that asks people making enquiries to accurately identify their motorhome https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/IDENTIFYING-YOUR-MOTORHOME/54713/ though the fact that the Hobby in question is Ford Transit-based is probably adequate in this instance. This link is to a Hobby motorhome manual with a July 2009 date of publication (hence for the 2010 model-year). http://www.hobbymotorhomes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2010-hobby-motorhomes-brochure.pdf At that point in time the Hobby Transit-based ranges comprised 4 “Van” models., 4 “Siesta Exclusive” models and 4 “Siesta” over-cab models. All of these had a model reference starting with a “T” (Transit) followed by a 3-figure number roughly relating to the vehicle’s length and then a 2 to 4 letter-group indicating the interior layout. Over-cab models also had “AK” (AlKoven) between the 3-figure number and the letter-group. The brochure indicates which control-panel was fitted to which models and Van and Siestas apparently had the panel shown on the attachment below. This is a CBE-made PC100-HB panel, with “HB” indicating that it was produced to meet Hobby’s specification. As Robinhood has said (and as the CBE PC100 Instruction Manual he gave a link to advises on Page 16) CAR BATTERY (B1) RECHARGING When the battery charger is charging, an electronic device allows a recharging (max 2A) of the car battery (B1), the system gives priority to the leisure battery (B2). This is jut a reduced voltage/low amperage ‘maintenance’ charge but - if the motorhome is connected to a 230V hook-up (and the on board battery-charger is operating) it should be capable of maintaining the charge-state of a well-charged starter-battery. It OUGHT to be possible to detect from the control-panel readouts whether charge is being provided by the onboard battery-charger to the starter-battery as well as to the leisure-battery, but using a multimeter on the batteries themselves would confirm what’s happening. A similar-concept CBE PC180 system is fitted to my 2015 Rapido. I choose not to have my motorhomes continuously connected to a 230V power supply, so I occasionally bring the starter-battery up to full-charge state using a separate charger directly connected to that battery. (My experience of Hobby is that their motorhome construction philosophy is generally sensible, but sometimes it seems like the Hobby designers get high on LSD with very unpredictable consequences.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 ...as you've now mentioned the solar capability, there is one hypothesis (which I find hard to believe, but I thought I'd mention it). Assuming CBE CB516. The documentation implies that the trickle charge to the vehicle battery is a by-product of the charger running. I can quite believe that (though it is multi-stage) the switching of the charger is controlled by the state of the leisure batteriy(ies) alone. Once it is in-cycle, the battery will charge until it has reached its designed end-stage, and then go into standby mode, from which it will start a new charging cycle only when the (leisure) battery drops below 12V. I find it difficult to believe that a covered solar panel will input enough charge to keep the leisure battery fully charged, but, and only at a stretch, I could just about see that any input might keep the terminal voltage above 13V, inhibiting the charger cutting in (and thus no trickle charge either). I find it difficult to believe that any such terminal voltage would occur overnight, though. (If, by some odd mechanism, the solar pane is providing enough to keep the batteries in a good state, (enough for them not to drop below 13V overnight), then the above would explain things, but I find it pretty unbelievable). My charger and distribution box was in front of the vehicle battery under the seat. The wiring instructions and block diagram linked above should give you a good starting point for investigation, given your background. I'm pretty sure that, if the battery charger is in standby mode when you want to do testing, power-cycling the charger will start a new full cycle (allowing you to check function). There was some debate on here about the Hobby electrics a few years ago - I've posted a link just in case, but I don't think it helps in your case: https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Battery-Charger-PC-100HB-T/37601/#:~:text=My%20Hobby%20is%20a%20van,is%20below%20the%20passenger's%20seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 Thank you both for your detailed replies. Last night when I was looking for more details I looked at the V5 but it didn't give a model. I think I have left the owner's manual in the glove box. I'll dig it out today. Now that you have offered a number of CBEs I will once again take the seat off and do some investigating with multimeter. I do have that control panel, which doesn't show actual voltage of course. I could leave a little voltmeter attached to each battery but my previous experience of all sorts of monitoring devices means I wouldn't want to fit a permanent one, you just get bored with seeing the same information over and over. First though, as I have had it on EHU overnight with a separate intelligent battery charger connected I'll do a bit of discharging. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 gassygassy - 2020-12-26 7:27 PM I have a 2009 Hobby on a Ford Transit base. When I connect to EHU the leisure battery charges OK but not the engine battery. I thought this was the way it is designed but In the current situation I need to keep the engine battery charged while it isn't going anywhere. Is there some sort of configuring that one can do to make the two batteries charge from EHU? I connect both batterys with this setup been working for 10 yrs + on 2 vans successfully http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 Right-ho, I think all is well. The motorhome is a Hobby 600 Siesta Exclusive which is 6.4 metres long, which makes me wonder why it is called a 600 when 640 would make some sense. Registered December 2009 and has one owner before me. The battery compartment under the driver's seat has a CB522 charger. The battery is I (?80%?) think new. I say I think 80% because I bought the camper in October this year from a dealer. When I first went to see it, the battery was dead, it wouldn't even click the solenoid. I said 'oh, it needs a new battery'. The dealer said no it only needs a charge, and I disagreed and said it needs a new battery. Anyway when I collected it a week or so later it behaved properly. I didn't see them fit a new battery, for all I know they used one from another vehicle - but it is a shiny-like-new Exide proper size for the compartment so let us assume it is new. It has never failed to start the engine. I left it on EHU over night with an intelligent battery charger connected. this morning I disconnected it and after about 20 mins I measured the engine battery voltage at 12.53. I left it for another 30 mins and reconnected the EHU and the voltage went up to 12.56, then 12.57 and then 12.58. Therefore I knew that the CB522 is indeed charging the engine battery when on EHU. The original reason for my raising this thread was that after being plugged in to EHU for a while, the control panel showed the leisure battery to be fully charged but the engine battery to be partly charged. I therefore wondered if the engine battery was getting any charge when on EHU in which case I would need to charge it separately. However, I also thought that Hobby as a make, ten years ago would have been making very good quality products as witnessed by the tree wood furniture properly screwed together. I have previously had a great many different makes and models of motorhome, including three brand new ones from 2014 onwards, and to get this 2009 Hobby I sold my 2016 AutoSleeper which in comparison was badly made. For example the wood printed paper used for covering the cupboard doors was shrinking away and starting to look horrible. I took a cupboard door to the A/S stand at the October NEC and showed them and their response wasn't "Oh sorry, give us your address and we'll send you a new one", it was "here's a phone number for our stores and they will give you a price for a new one". OK the A/S was 4 years old but I think the Sales of Goods Act would say that it was not fit for purpose for a reasonable period of time, also the A/S staff member thought this degradation of their doors was perfectly normal and reasonable. The vehicle had only done 3,500 miles - perhaps it had been stored somewhere very hot. However I have read of this fault elsewhere so I think it is normal. Not only that but A/S are installing the Truma heaters contrary to the manufacturer's instructions, which as I am an ex-Gas Safe Registered 'engineer' I find inexcusable and not understandable. I removed the boiler, rotated it through 180 degrees which made it fit as per the manufacturer's instructions. If an annual habitation service was done properly, the engineer would fail all such vehicles. Imagine if a plumber came to your house and installed a boiler wrongly would you be impressed? Maybe you wouldn't know, as the vast majority of A/S owners don't. It's not actually dangerous, but a)it's not fitted to the instructions and b) the way it is fitted promotes early failure, and makes access to the works extremely difficult and requires prolonged dismantling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 When it said 'edited by gassygassy' I tried to add a photo - twice - but it didn't add the photo. Ref: the Clive Mott bridge, that is a fairly obvious thing to do, it will both charge and discharge both batteries at the same time. However the counter-argument is that unless you buy two identical batteries from the production line of a factory there will be differences in internal resistances of the batteries, resistance of the wires connecting them and so on, which might make one battery take some charge from the other battery and deplete them both. As I say that is just a counter-argument that I have heard and read about. That also is another reason for not buying a new motorhome now - intelligent alternators. They aren't so clever to realise that there are leisure batteries connected and cause all sorts of problems. Also with "stop Start Technology" you will chew up batteries and starter motors at vast expense, if you don't switch them off every time you get in a vehicle so equipped and drive somewhere. You can't even change a starter motor yourself, a new starter motor has to be programmed into The Computer That Must Be Obeyed which of course can only be done by the main dealer for £120 plus VAT on top of the cost of the starter and the fitting labour. Another couple of reasons for not buying new. On top of AdBlu and all the other complexities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 gassygassy - 2020-12-27 12:50 PM When it said 'edited by gassygassy' I tried to add a photo - twice - but it didn't add the photo. Photos need to be under 100 kB in file size and of .jpg (and NOT .jpeg) format to successfully post. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 walks with the Gods - thanks for the request to update / post in the control panel, I have done that now. There isn't a specific place to put vehicle details so I put it in the signature box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I thought I had switched off these forums' silly 'titlie' option in my Profile... Putting motorhome identification details in the signature is definitely better than nothing, but these forums allow the display of signatures to be turned off, so using the Location field is preferable. This other thread refers https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/ALL-FORUM-MEMBERS-PLEASE-READ/47195/ The software driving these forums is 15 years old. The ability to record motorhome identification data was never included when the software was written and using the Location or signature is a DIY bodge. The rough-and-ready relationship between the model 'number' and the model's length is just one of Hobby's idiosyncrasies. As far as I'm aware Hobby has always done it like this and as long as the motorhome's age is known, it doesn't normally cause confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 OK Derek, I've changed it thank you. I see you have a 2015 Rapido 640. Does that have an electric bed? I bought a new 2014 600FF with an electric bed and as a result I am on first name email terms with the designer of the bed at Project 2000 in Italy, and with the production manager at Rapido. I have (somewhere!) the installation manual for the bed. If you have one I will be happy to tell you how to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 No, my Rapido is a 640F so no electric bed. There was a Rapido 640B variant that had an electrically-operated single-size drop-down bed over the front lounge area (mentioned here) https://www.pegasusfinance.co.uk/motorhome-review-rapido-640-blog/ but Rapido soon dropped that model, presumably because sales were poor. Going back to your 2009 Hobby, when new I’d expect it to have had a Ford-norm “Motorcraft” wet-acid starter-battery under the driver’s seat (and with a vent tube attached to that battery) and an Exide G80 gel battery under the passenger seat (with NO vent-tube attached to that battery). If you want to confirm the age of the Exide starter-battery the dealer fitted. the battery’s date of manufacture (or a code) should be on it somewhere. It’s probable that, after 11 years, the original leisure-battery will have been replaced. Gel batteries aren’t cheap. so there’s a fair possibility that a non-gel type would have been fitted instead. When you’ve got the passenger seat off, it would be worth confirming that the selection switch inside your CB522 charger is set to the correct battery type and - if a wet-acid battery has been fitted - that this has a vent-tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Thank you Derek. Ref the leisure battery, it is a soooperdooper sooper expensive Duracell branded battery that I bought about 18 months ago. I fitted two of them to my then-motorhome which I subsequently sold. I removed one of them prior to selling the motorhome and kept the battery because it was so expensive, and fitted it to this Hobby. I don't think it has a vent tube so I guess it is a Gel. I have the blue Victron solar controller, and from memory I don't think it has any battery type selector facility. It flashes a blue LED now and again, and I am a bit frustrated that it didn't come with any instuction booklet so I just assume that the blue flashing LED means it is receiving a charge from the solar panel and charging the battery. I will investigate the engine battery and check that the CBE charger is set correctly, thanks for that information. One would hope that the dealer, being a franchised Hobby dealer would have made sure the charger was set properly. Just for your information, the electric bed on my Rapido was continually malfunctioning. The way it operates is this. Starting from the top position, when the bed is there it operates a microswitch which tells the computer it is at let's call it position 1. Rapido didn't allow for the fact that some users might actually put bedding on the bed, so with a duvet and two sheets and pillows, when it went up to the ceiling it stopped before operating the microswitch. So the first thing I did was to lower the microswitch so that the computer knew it was in position 1. You have to program in five 'stop' positions into the computer using the instructions which spread over several pages of the installation manual. The user control panel has two arrows, up and down. In between these arrows there is a hidden, unidentified button which you cannot see, and is activated by pushing on the control panel in between the two arrows. Using a complex routine of press and hold / press and release the two up / down buttons you can get the bed to where you want it and then press another sequence of buttons to put that position into memory 1.Keeping an eye on the number of times an LED flashes, of course. Repeat for four more bed positions. Then in theory you have programmed five stop positions for the bed. You have to understand that the bed has to be controlled by computer, because the user cannot be trusted to just push an 'up' button to make the bed go up, or 'down' button to make it go down and then let go of it when the bed is where they want it. Are you following at the back of the class? Wake up! That is all fine and dandy if everything is working as it should, but on mine, it didn't. One day we went to a friend's wedding, and the reception was at a country mansion with lots of land. I asked if I could stay overnight in my motorhome in the car park. No problem. At the reception someone asked if they could see my motorhome so I gladly took them out to show them, and demonstrate the electric bed. Look, you press this down arrow and it goes down . . . . . . no it doesn't. Press, press, press, nothing. Oh dear I'm stuck. All our bedding is on the bed which is stuck fast to the ceiling. We had the choice of trying to sleep on the floor or in the front seats, or driving home, having had a few alcoholic drinks. I won't admit to which I did. So back to Brownhills, and when they said it was ready they brought it back. Each time I called them with a fault, they came to my house and collected it. Three times I reported it faulty and three times they came and collected it. They never found the fault, it was intermittent which I agree is difficult to detect, unless you trace all the wiring which they quite clearly did not do. They referred me to Rapido production manager in France who in turn put me in touch with the Italian bed designer who sent me the installation manual with the wiring diagram. I started following the wiring from the power supply to the control panel. By now of course the bed was working. The motor drives a long shaft which via a gearbox rotates slowly and winds or unwinds some seat-belt webbing round the shaft depending on if it's going up or down. The switch and the computer apply volts to the 2 way motor through a fat wiring loom. The computer knows where to stop for each of the five stop positions because at one end of the long shaft there is a magnet and a pick-up coil which pulses with each rotation. The pulses go to the computer which counts them so it knows when to stop. I traced the wiring all the way along and found the fault. The moron in the Rapido factory had failed to push together the two halves of an eight pin plug properly. One of the pins was sticking out of the plug body by about 5mm. There is no way that the fitter would have missed that, it was a brass flat blade, the 5mm type. It was not pushed into its other mating half, sometimes making contact and sometimes not. Also Mr Italian bed designer had specified 4mm cable for the motor supply, and Rapido was using 2mm cable. The motor apparently takes 20A, which is the top limit of those blade connectors, even if they are correctly pushed together. So I cut all 8 conductors, binned the plug and socket, and soldered all the wires and heat shrink sleeved them. I reassembled the bed, and reprogrammed it. Hooray, it worked. I thought I now had the perfect motorhome, 6m long with a fabulous end bathroom and a double bed that came right down to seating level, so no ladder was required. Until one day I went to operate it and the bed collapsed in one corner. The long shaft had come out of a bearing at one end. I tried to refit it but I couldn't. Back to Brownhills, red faced and angry. By this time, I had written them the standard "This is useless I want my money back' letter. Brownhills agreed to make the allowance against another motorhome which I accepted. I chose another one of approximately the same value and left a deposit on it. Next week I went back to collect it, and instead of the £360 difference in value they slid an invoice across the desk to me asking for £8500. I gasped and said no that's wrong, it is £360. The guy said 'we can't give you the VAT back'. I thought that was wrong so I declined and went home. A friend of mine is a VAT inspector so I told him. He said I know what they are up to. They charge VAT on a new vehicle but not on a used vehicle so they are not giving you the VAT back.In law they have to give you the whole amount you paid for it. My solicitor wrote them a suitable letter which cost me £600 but didn't get the whole value back. He said I could take Brownhills to court but first he would want £20,000 off me which will buy me the first day in court. He then pointed out that the Law Is A Ass and if I lost, because they have a QC in the Masons as is the judge, then I will have to keep the vehicle and pay all of their costs which will be substantially more than £20,000. I didn't want to take this Heap Of The Week to any other dealer so in the end I took Brownhills part-ex offer and got another one from them. However I will never darken their doorstep again. Nor, with that level of quality control will I have a Rapido. Nor an Autosleeper. Hence my current choice of a ten year old German motorhome. If something goes wrong, that is par for the course for a ten year old. It seems to be exceedingly well built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 gassygassy - 2020-12-28 12:10 PM Thank you Derek. Ref the leisure battery, it is a soooperdooper sooper expensive Duracell branded battery that I bought about 18 months ago. I fitted two of them to my then-motorhome which I subsequently sold. I removed one of them prior to selling the motorhome and kept the battery because it was so expensive, and fitted it to this Hobby. I don't think it has a vent tube so I guess it is a Gel.... This link relates to Duracell ranges of vehicle batteries https://www.shieldbatteries.co.uk/brands/duracell-batteries.html The “Duracell Leisure Range” comprises a small number of traditional wet-acid batteries (example here) https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/brands/duracell-automotive/duracell-leisure-battery-range/duracell-dl100-12v-100ah-leisure-1244732.html and these should be fitted with a vent-tube if the battery is to be installed beneath a cab-seat. The only Duracell vehicle batteries that I’d expect might not be fitted with a vent-tube even if the battery were installed under a cab-seat would be the "Extreme AGM” variants. https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/brands/duracell-automotive/duracell-extreme-battery-range.html though even these may well have a vent-tube capability. There’s a cooperative business connection between Duracell and Banner, and batteries in the Duracell Leisure range look like twins of Banner’s “Energy Bull” leisure batteries. (Banner markets gel batteries for specialised vehicle applications (eg. the “Bike Bull Gel” range for motorcycles) but I’m not sure about Duracell.) Exide G80 batteries are still available https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/80-ah-exide-g80-gel-deep-cycle-leisure-battery?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrZ2YvfHw7QIVC57tCh17fQW_EAQYAyABEgLwlvD_BwE or the Sonnenschein GF clone https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/sonnenschein/gf12065y/ Both of these should fit into a Transit Mk 7’s cab-seat base (in fact it should be practicable to shoehorn two of them in) and neither has a vent-tube capability. Regarding your optimistic comment I will investigate the engine battery and check that the CBE charger is set correctly, thanks for that information. One would hope that the dealer, being a franchised Hobby dealer would have made sure the charger was set properly. As checking the position of the battery-type selection-switch of a CB522 charger would involve removing the charger’s metal cover, and doing that would need the cab-seat being removed first, the chances are pretty slim that a franchised Hobby dealer (or any other dealership for that matter) would bother to make that check before selling a secondhand motorhome. Although you might hope the dealer would have done this, I would always assume they would not. Project 2000 products (beds, steps, etc.) have some infamy and I noticed your postings about your Rapido’s bed in this 2015-2019 Small Motorhome and Friends forum discussion. https://community.smallmotorhome.co.uk/forum/technical-section/technical-discussion/18195-electric-bed-problems-in-motorhomes Victron manuals can be downloaded from here https://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/manuals so you might be able to find a manual for your solar controller there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 Wow, that's a lot of work there, thank you for all that information. I'll check the engine battery charger. The bolts securing the front seats have been out a few times recently so all the tools are there poised ready to go. What is your nom de plume on the small motorhome forum? I do go to that and the A/S forum, though I haven't admitted to selling the A/S yet . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I don’t have an account on the Small Motorhome and Friends forum, but Mr GOOGLE knew about your posts there when I looked for comments about Project 2000 electric bed problems. I do have an account on the Auto-Sleepers Motorhome Owners forum, though my only active participation there seems to have been in January 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 quote,"I have the blue Victron solar controller, and from memory I don't think it has any battery type selector facility. It flashes a blue LED now and again, and I am a bit frustrated that it didn't come with any instuction booklet so I just assume that the blue flashing LED means it is receiving a charge from the solar panel and charging the battery. " The blue flash indicates no solar input to the controller, steady blue indicates bulk charge. A solar panel with a semi transparent cover is not going to deliver any meaningful energy. All Victron manuals can be downloaded from their site, and all models have charge programs for different battery types, with the 'smart' versions everything can be set up and monitored via a phone app. https://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/manuals Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gassygassy Posted December 29, 2020 Author Share Posted December 29, 2020 RESULTS! :-D :-D :-D THANK YOU ALL WHO RESPONDED, TODAY'S WORK WAS WELL REWARDED. I decided to see a) if the engine battery was new, b) if it was vented and c) if the CBE charger was set correctly. a) the battery is new, because it is an Exide Premium Carbon Boost EA852. I don't know what a carbon boost is, but it was only introduced in 2019 so my battery not only looks new but I am sure it is. https://www.exide.com/eu/en/node/49111 b) The battery was indeed vented, but only to the habitation area. Shining a torch down the side I could see a vent tube going through the floor, but not connected to the battery. The battery vent hole didn't have a little white plastic tube sticking out, so presumably the installer just tucked the vent pipe away underneath the cables to put it out of the way. In my garage I found a plastic pipe just the right diameter to fit the battery vent and the drain vent pipe so I fixed that in place and now it is vented. c) the most important discovery. The battery is obviously a lead acid battery so I wanted to check the CBE charger was set to pb. To do this you have to remove the charger cover, and to do that you have to remove the battery clamp plate. I did this and found the CBE charger was set correctly to pb. I decided to wiggle a few wires, and discovered that the main thick wires feeding the battery were very loose on the threads of the studs on the charger pcb. I could hardly believe it. Both of the eyelets rattled around on the studs, not even finger tight. The + terminal took two and a half turns to tighten, and the - terminal one and a half. I would think they may well have been like that from the factory. I can't think of a reason why anyone would remove them unless they were fitting a replacement CBE 522 charger unit, which is of course possible but I would have thought unlikely. I wonder what effect that would have had on the charging of the battery. Certainly it would have prevented full charging of the battery from a mains supply. The battery terminal wiring was all fine and tight so it would have charged from the engine. I reconnected the EHU and monitored the battery terminal voltage. It started at 12.56 and after about 15 minutes it was up to 13.00 so the charger is working fine. So once again I am very greatful for the help that all you have given me, and I am glad I came to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 gassygassy - 2020-12-29 4:32 PM The battery is obviously a lead acid battery so I wanted to check the CBE charger was set to pb. . There may be some confusion here, but I think you're referring here to the vehicle battery. The charging regime really should be set to the requirements of the habitation battery. (only getting a trickle charge, the effect of the setting onr the engine battery is largely irrelevant). I'm not sure if we ever bottomed the actual model and spec of your Duracell battery, but the suspicion was that it also was lead-acid, and it thus should most likely also be vented. If it isn't lead-acid, then it needs close inspection to determine the best charging regime. (As it left the factory, the battery would/should have been gel, which wouldn't have required venting, and would have had the gel charging regime enabled. As the latter appears to have been changed, then you may be set up correctly (and vented if required), but best to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 gassygassy - 2020-12-29 4:32 PM ...it is an Exide Premium Carbon Boost EA852. I don't know what a carbon boost is, but it was only introduced in 2019 so my battery not only looks new but I am sure it is... Advertising blurb on Exide’s EA852 battery and the astounding Carbon Boost effect on this webpage https://www.grovesbatteries.co.uk/Car-Battery/Exide-Premium-EA852-110TE.aspx A lot of batteries have a vent-hole at each end. In such cases the most convenient hole is used for attachng the vent-tube and the hole at the opposite end of the battery should be plugged - otherwise there’d be little value having a vent-tube. As the person who installed the Exide battery failed to attach the vent-tube to it, if the Exide battery has two vent-holes they may have failed to plug the 2nd hole. As Robinhood has advised, it’s the Duracell leisure-battery’s type that the charger’s selection-switch setting should match. If the Duracell battery is ‘ordinary’ wet-acid or EFB type the charger’s setting should be “PB”. If it’s AGM type, your CB522 charger (assuming it’s the original) probably won’t have an AGM setting, so the choice will be PB or GEL. Banner used to advise that their AGM batteries should be charged using a GEL charger setting, which should be OK for a CB522 charger. AGM leisure-battery charging was discussed here https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/charging-an-agm-leisure-battery.202766/ http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/agm-batteries.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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