johnsankus Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Hi all, I am sure this is a common problem when someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing buys a motorhome... :D So, firstly, it is a 1998 Elddis autostratus 4 berth. It plugs into the mains, has all the cables it probably should have and looks okay. It has a wee gas heater, a fridge and a gas oven and hob. So, I found the gas bottle in a wee compartment on the side. I took it out, disconnected it, gave it a shake (it sloshed a bit....) turned on the tap, and gas came out, so that bit works... bonus. So I disconnected the hose and put the regulator on by itself, and turned that tap on again - gas came out, so that's okay. So I connected it all back together and went inside. I pulled all the cushions off and opened doors and cupboards...under the oven in the pot holding compartment there is a copper pipe with a couple of red switches on it - one has a graphic of a running tap, so I'm guessing that's the water heater. The other has a graphic of an oven on it, so I guessed this was the oven... There is another similar red switch on the other side of the van under the sofa with a graphic of a stove, so I am guessing that is the heater. So, to cut to the chase, if anyone is still awake, regardless of which way I turn these taps, I get no gas coming out of either the heater or the hob. I read on some posts elsewhere there was a yellow tap inside the gas compartment - there appears to be no tap inside mine - the gas hose from the bottle disappears through a hole. All I can find are these red taps/switches, which appear to be particular to their appliance. My only two conclusions are that there is a master switch somewhere that I cannot find, or a blockage somewhere, for which I wouldn't even begin to know where to look. Any and all assistance gratefully received... Thank you :-D :-D :-D I forgot to mention, I did make sure the stopcock on the bottle was turned on... ;) J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 John, How long did you wait for the gas to come through? It can take possibly a minute or more for the gas to purge the air out of the pipes and actually stay alight if the MH has not been used for a while. So do you get anything out of the hob burners with the gas turned on, can you hear anything or smell anything? Keith. PS And the gas taps need to have the handle inline with the pipe for them to be turned on, across the pipe blocks the flow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Is this the same make / model for you? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1334091/Elddis-Autostratus-Rg-2004.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Hi, Is the regulator fitted to the bottle, if not, it has to fitted remotely and may have a button that requires pressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 If its a bulkhead regulator ie fitted to the gas locker structure rather than to the cylinder it could be a blocked regulator. Can't remember the year this problem started but it was a real pain ................. and happened to us in Estonia where there was no repair/replacement available! :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 A 1998 Elddis is very unlikely to have a bulkhead mounted regulator as I do not believe UK manufacturers changed to them until around 2003/2004. And as John said he "disconnected the hose and put the regulator on by itself..." that also implies to me a bottle mounted regulator. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 johnsankus - 2021-05-08 6:14 PM Hi all, I am sure this is a common problem when someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing buys a motorhome. Any and all assistance gratefully received. Hi big learning curve ahead of You. Do you realise you need to hold/press most gas controls in until gas comes thru and lights the burner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 witzend - 2021-05-08 10:09 PM ...Do you realise you need to hold/press most gas controls in until gas comes thru and lights the burner? Yes - that’s the first question that needs to be asked... When I started motorcaravanning in 1998 public internet was in its infancy, there were no motorhome forums and ‘newbies’ to the pastime relied for information and guidance on leisure-vehicle magazines or hardcopy books. As John is a self-confessed motorhome novice, I suggest he invests (and it will be an investment) in an early copy of John Wickersham's book “The Motorcaravan Manual”. A 1998 version is advertised here for £5.99 https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/john-wickersham/complete-motorcaravan-manual/9781859603222?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrMze_f-78AIV02DmCh1CugjfEAQYAyABEgKDWPD_BwE and would be appropriate for his 1998 Elddis Autostratus. The book has a 14-page chapter on gas systems and covers isolation valves (“red switches”), regulators and kitchen/heating gas appliances. I’ve copied the contents-list below to show its scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 It might be prudent just to mention what this "pressing in of the knobs" on our gas appliances is all about? The tap the knob controls has an inbuilt "flame failure device" that severs the gas flow if the flame goes out. This therefore needs over riding and setting to get gas to the burner in the first place. Pushing it "fully" in does this, but it needs, then holding after the flame is lit for a few seconds as a sensor by the flame heats up and that in turn arms and latches the flame failure device. It is important to fully push it in to effectively latch, partly in gets a gas flow, but does not set the device latch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Is the gas propane (red cylinder), or butane (blue cylinder)? Butane does not vapourise below 0C. (I appreciate that gas was obtained at the regulator output, but were the appliances tested immediately afterwards?) If all other explanations fail to provide the answer, here is somthing else to consider. Many years ago, my parents owned an isolated country cottage, in which they used butane for cooking. We had one bottle, which while passing the "shake test", would not produce a significant amount of gas. After careful consideration, a small quantity of liquid was released into a metal bucket. This liquid only vapourised slowly, at an outdoor temperature well above freezing. I have always thought that the liquid may have been pentane which vapourises at about 20C. After a new bottle was fitted, gas was available for cooking lunch. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsankus Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Thanks Keith - the issue I have with the switches is that they are right on the angle of the pipe, so when they are in line with the vertical section, they are perpendicular to the horizontal section, and vice versa... I'm sure that design makes sense to someone somewhere, but it sure as hell confused me! :D I will try all the suggestions I have received, Thank you :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsankus Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Keithl - 2021-05-08 9:44 PM A 1998 Elddis is very unlikely to have a bulkhead mounted regulator as I do not believe UK manufacturers changed to them until around 2003/2004. And as John said he "disconnected the hose and put the regulator on by itself..." that also implies to me a bottle mounted regulator. Keith. Aye - the flow path goes: Bottle - regulator - hose - sidewall. After that, I don't see where it comes into the living area except for the copper pipe carrying gas to the heater. I assume that the pipe carrying gas to the cooker and hot water heater, which is on the other side of the living space, is connected to the heater pipe but under the floor where it cannot be accessed. I will try the booklet that has been recommended also :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 John, The horizontal pipe is actually the manifold and then the vertical pipes lead to the appliances so the taps need to align with the vertical pipes. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsankus Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Derek Uzzell - 2021-05-09 8:18 AM witzend - 2021-05-08 10:09 PM ...Do you realise you need to hold/press most gas controls in until gas comes thru and lights the burner? Yes - that’s the first question that needs to be asked... When I started motorcaravanning in 1998 public internet was in its infancy, there were no motorhome forums and ‘newbies’ to the pastime relied for information and guidance on leisure-vehicle magazines or hardcopy books. As John is a self-confessed motorhome novice, I suggest he invests (and it will be an investment) in an early copy of John Wickersham's book “The Motorcaravan Manual”. A 1998 version is advertised here for £5.99 https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/books/john-wickersham/complete-motorcaravan-manual/9781859603222?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrMze_f-78AIV02DmCh1CugjfEAQYAyABEgKDWPD_BwE and would be appropriate for his 1998 Elddis Autostratus. The book has a 14-page chapter on gas systems and covers isolation valves (“red switches”), regulators and kitchen/heating gas appliances. I’ve copied the contents-list below to show its scope. Ordered - thank you :D J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Gas ‘quarter-turn’ isolation valves will normally have an arrow on the operating knob, but the arrow is not always easy to see. The arrows (circled in green) are just about visible in the photo I’ve attached below that shows a gas manifold with three outlets leading - left to right - to a hob/oven, a heater and a fridge. As Keith has said, when the tap is in its OPEN position, the arrow should point towards the gas pipe leading to the gas appliance. In the photo all three knobs are in their OPEN position. At the very beginning of this short YouTube video (relating to a Hobby motohome) the three isolation valves are shown in their CLOSED position and - near the end of the video - each valve is moved to its OPEN position. (It has to be said that the video is ambiguous at that point, and I suspect that few (if any) motorcaravanners close gas isolation valves prior to driving their motorhome.) This (longer) video also covers operation of the isolation valves. If you turn the gas isolation valve with the oven graphic on it to its ON position, fully raise any glass lid over the oven’s hob, push in and turn one of the hob’s operating knobs, you ought to be able to hear hissing from the related hob burner. Although the burner might not be lightable immediately as there will quite likely be air in the pipework, If hissing happens this will at least confirm that gas is on its way from the gas-bottle to the hob. (I think your 1998 Autostratus will have started life with a full-depth gas cooker comprising a 4-burner hob, a grill and an oven; a fairly compact ‘3-way’ (gas/230V/12V) Electrolux fridge; a Carver convector gas heater (possibly with a 230V capability too) and a Carver “Cascade” gas water boiler (also possibly with a 230V capability). However there’s no certainty that, during the last 23 years, the original specification will have remained unchanged.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajohno Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 As I have the same era Elddis (An eclipse) I think the gas layout would be similar. Each appliance has its own supply valve (red in colour), mine has heater, water heater, fridge and cooker fed from the gas supply (Butane). My water heater and heater valves which are hidden under the bench seats are inline with the pipework to be open (supply gas) The cooker (oven grill and hob) and fridge are tapped from a vertical pipe, to be open the valve is turned so it is horizontal, ie inline with the pipe that feeds the equipment. I normally start from a dry system by holding the hob controls in until gas is heard or the hob lights, then work back through the system lighting each piece of gas fed equipment, once all is working correctly I shut them down, leaving appliance valves open but shut the main cylinder valve, which remains connected, until arrival on a campsite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsankus Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 witzend - 2021-05-08 10:09 PM johnsankus - 2021-05-08 6:14 PM Hi all, I am sure this is a common problem when someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing buys a motorhome. Any and all assistance gratefully received. Hi big learning curve ahead of You. Do you realise you need to hold/press most gas controls in until gas comes thru and lights the burner? Thank you! Success! Gas comes through the hob... Now I just need to work out how to operate the igniter on the hob and the heater, which don't spark... :D Too many buttons on these things! Large three-way switch on the electric/fuse panel giving the choice of vehicle battery, leisure battery, or none. Leisure battery position makes the lights work... and the heater knob showed a red light when I pressed it down in the "gas on" position (and I'm pretty sure I can hear a faint but rapid clicking, although nothing ignites...) but the ignite button on the hob seems dead... perhaps I need to charge up the leisure battery? The vehicle was driven 250 miles to here, so that should have charged it up, no? :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsankus Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 rajohno - 2021-05-09 5:51 PM As I have the same era Elddis (An eclipse) I think the gas layout would be similar. Each appliance has its own supply valve (red in colour), mine has heater, water heater, fridge and cooker fed from the gas supply (Butane). My water heater and heater valves which are hidden under the bench seats are inline with the pipework to be open (supply gas) The cooker (oven grill and hob) and fridge are tapped from a vertical pipe, to be open the valve is turned so it is horizontal, ie inline with the pipe that feeds the equipment. I normally start from a dry system by holding the hob controls in until gas is heard or the hob lights, then work back through the system lighting each piece of gas fed equipment, once all is working correctly I shut them down, leaving appliance valves open but shut the main cylinder valve, which remains connected, until arrival on a campsite. Good advice - thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 johnsankus - 2021-05-09 6:28 PM ... but the ignite button on the hob seems dead... Depending on the model of hob there may be either a 9 volt battery hidden somewhere below or a small (AA?) battery inside the igniter button itself. What make and model is the hob and someone may know. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsankus Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Keithl - 2021-05-09 7:02 PM johnsankus - 2021-05-09 6:28 PM ... but the ignite button on the hob seems dead... Depending on the model of hob there may be either a 9 volt battery hidden somewhere below or a small (AA?) battery inside the igniter button itself. What make and model is the hob and someone may know. Keith. It just says Caprice, then Country Leisure - not sure about the model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 johnsankus - 2021-05-09 8:01 PM It just says Caprice, then Country Leisure - not sure about the model All the details I can find for a Caprice hob say the igniter is 12 volt powered so try looking in the pan cupboard underneath or adjoining cupboards for any wiring and try and ascertain if you do have a 12 volt supply to the cooker. Keith. PS There may be a model rating plate in the opening for the oven door or in the pan cupboard below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 johnsankus - 2021-05-09 8:01 PM It just says Caprice, then Country Leisure - not sure about the model now your holding the control down to get the gas thru can you see another button to press in hard & quickly to create a spark if not you need to use a match or lighter not all hobs have electric ignition mine doesn't so I use one of these https://tinyurl.com/de4dmdrj 250 ml drive might not have been enough to fully charge your battery as priorty goes to eng battery first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 johnsankus - 2021-05-09 8:01 PM It just says Caprice, then Country Leisure - not sure about the model “Autostratus” motorhomes were marketed in several versions. This YouTube video relates to a 1997 Autostratus LS model and includes interior pictures of the cooker, heater and fridge, while an exterior picture shows that its water heater is a Carver “Cascade”. It’s probable that all Autostratus motorhomes built around then will have had the same ‘domestic’ equipment. The cooker is a Spinflo “Caprice" and there’s an (old) advert for a secondhand one here that has some useful photos https://sfmcaravans.co.uk/products/spinflo-caprice-oven-grill-hob-2 I’ve attached below an image of that cooker’s controls and arrowed in red the white gas-ignition button. Gas ignition for motorhome/caravan hob-burners may use a piezoelectric ignitor that operates as Witzend has described, or an electric ignitor powered from either a ’torch battery’ or from the leisure-vehicle’s 12V battery, or need the user to light the hob-burner directly using a refillable (or piezoelectric) gas lighter (example here) https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/bar-be-quick-long-lite-gas-lighter or a match/taper. My 1st (1996-built) motorhome had a cooker similar to a Spinflo Caprice and gas ignition was via the 12V leisure battery. My 2nd motorhome just had a 3-burner gas hob and gas ignition was via a hand-held gas lighter. My current motothome just has a 2-burner gas hob and push-button piezoelectric gas ignition. Obviously, if there’s a grill and/or an oven, it makes sense to have electric gas ignition of some sort to avoud scorching the hairs off one’s hands/eyebrows. But I preferred the basic simplicity of using a gas-lighter on my 2nd motorhome to the piezo system on my Rapido that works OK most of the time but occasionally (and inexplicably) refuses to light the burner despite sparking clearly happening. If you don’t have an Elddis handbook for your 1998 Autoquest, you might try asking Elddis if they can provide you with one. https://elddis.co.uk/contact An Installation/Operating manual for a 2003 Spinflo Caprice cooker can be downloaded from here https://www.conwayowners.org.uk/appliances.htm The manual confirms that the cooker would have had 12V-powered spark-ignition or (alternatively) the gas would need to have been lit manually by “a lighted match or taper”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajohno Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Is this any use to you (Autoquest manual) There are no dates on it so not sure if the information is for your year. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1133231/Elddis-Autoquest.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 The earliest Elddis Autostratus manual available online seems to be for the 2003 model-year, but by then Elddis had replaced Carver heating equipment with Truma equivalents (I beieve Carver was subsumed by Truma around Year 2000). Obtaining a handbook for a 1998 Autostratus was asked about here in 2018 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/handbook/48923/ and Elddis supplied one on request. A snag where older UK-built motorhomes are concerned is that the original handbooks could contain minimal information about major appliances like cookers, heaters and fridges, just referring the motorhome owner to the appliance manufacturer’s literature that should have been provided with the vehicle when the buyer took delivery of it. This means that - as Randonneur said in the 2018 forum thread - the best/only way to obtain such information may be to try to identify an appliance’s make and specific model and see if there’s anything online about it. For example, a GOOGLE-search on “carver cascade manual” will retrieve lots of information about that water heater. Alternatively, it may be possible to approach the issue laterally by seeing if a different motorhome manufacturer’s handbook is more forthcoming. For instance, the following link is to a September 1999 publication-date Swift Group motorhome owner’s handbook and includes infomation on Carver water and space heaters and Electrolux fridges of that era. https://www.bessacarr-owners-club.org/info-centre/manuals/motorhome/9830014-MH-Owners-Handbook-2000.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.