bill kircher Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Hi all Lost all inside power to the van but the awning light and indicator lights on control panel light up. It also shows correct time and beeps when you turn it on. Any ideas Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Check ALL fuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill kircher Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Yes, checked all fuses, the temp, battery levels and water all showing as they should, just no 12 volt power, lights water pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Hi Bill, 1. What is the state of your habitation battery? 2, Check the seating of the small 16 way connector (J9), that is above the 12 way connector at the lower RHS of theDS300 pcb, when cover is removed. See photo. 3. Check the seating of the connector on the remote end of the same cable, at the rear of the PC200. Most of the outputs of the CBE PC200 / DS300 system are controlled via relays mounted on the DS300 12 V distribution board. The supply to the PC200 is routed via the DS300, and after passing through the various switches passes back to the DS300 to operate relays for the various devices i,e pump etc. A further overall control is a low habitation battery (B2) voltage cut off. Hence question 1 above. Have you suffered any mains supply interruptions (as short as 3 seconds) caused by recent storms? These could have damaged the system if EHU was connected at the time. Alan PS Ignore the black arrow on photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill kircher Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Thanks for the reply Hab battery is 13.8 volts, we have solar, no, was not connected... Just watch TV and went just like that, we have an inverter and that's fine, checked all terminals and they are OK so think there's a fault in the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 13.8 volts is a charging voltage and not a measure of the battery's state of charge. Did you have a mains charger turned on at the time you took the measurement? If yes then turn off the charger and allow the battery to stand for at least one hour or more preferably overnight before measuring the voltage again. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 bill kircher - 2021-07-27 4:33 PM Hi all Lost all inside power to the van but the awning light and indicator lights on control panel light up. It also shows correct time and beeps when you turn it on. Any ideas Thanks Bill It would be useful to know your motorhome’s make and model, and when it was built. Alanb has assumed that the CBE Distribution Box is a DS300 unit, but that’s not always so - a CBE200/DS520 combination is not that uncommon. It’s also the case that the control-panel and distribution box may be ‘bespoke’ (ie. have features requested by a specific motorhome manufacturer) which can complicate matters if a replacement panel and/or board is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Derek Uzzell - 2021-07-28 7:22 AM It would be useful to know your motorhome’s make and model, and when it was built. Alanb has assumed that the CBE Distribution Box is a DS300 unit, but that’s not always so - a CBE200/DS520 combination is not that uncommon. It’s also the case that the control-panel and distribution box may be ‘bespoke’ (ie. have features requested by a specific motorhome manufacturer) which can complicate matters if a replacement panel and/or board is needed. I am unable to appreciate how knowledge of the motorhomes details will assist diagnosis, at the present time. With the lack of precise information it is sometimes necessary to make assumptions, in order to simplify the reply and suggest a course of action. The DS300 is more common than the DS520, which is the verson fitted to my own vehicle. I also assumed that Bill was currently using his MH, and assistance was being urgently requested. The photo of a DS300 is from my files, and was included solely as an aid to identifying the connection for the PC200. There is a distinct lack of information concerning the workings of CBE systems, in their various combinations.. This makes any diagnosis difficult. It may help if Bill could confirm that "Boite de Securite" relay units included in the installation, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 In a 2018 posting Bill said that he had just acquired a 2004 Compass Castaway motorhome. I'm guessing that he still has that vehicle (that will have had a PC200 contro-panel) but it could be useful to have this confirmed. (You've just thrown "Boite de Securite" units into the mix, which I suspect will be meaningless to Bill and irrelevant if his motorhome is a Castaway.) There's also this https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/split-charge-relay-location.83470/ It's often the case that accurately identifying a motorhome's make, model and age is critical to answering a technical question and it's most unlikely that not providing such information will be beneficial. That's why - at the top of this forum's homepage - there's the following plea https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/-IDENTIFYING-YOUR-MOTORHOME-/54713/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill kircher Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 Thanks for the replys Yes it's a compass castaway 2004, it has a pc200 control panel and a ds-520ex distribution board. I have looked very closely at the board but can't find any "iffy" looking parts, not burnt or dis coloured. Also can't find any places up here that can look at it, we will just carry on back without water, flush or 12 volt in the moho ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian81 Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 It makes me wonder if one of the three multiway connectors has come loose on the panel (white ) in the posted photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 bill kircher - 2021-07-28 12:50 PM Thanks for the replys Yes it's a compass castaway 2004, it has a pc200 control panel and a ds-520ex distribution board. I have looked very closely at the board but can't find any "iffy" looking parts, not burnt or dis coloured. Also can't find any places up here that can look at it, we will just carry on back without water, flush or 12 volt in the moho ?? I'm guessing, but the "EX" suffix to Bill's 520 distribution board seems likely to identify Explorer Group products, implying that there may well be some internal variation to the board compared to the "off the shelf" product. (Ours is a PC110KN, for example.) The description of the fault, if related to the functions provided via our PC110, suggests that the main 12V supply has been turned off via the control panel. I.e. only limited items function. This may indicate that the main power relay, operated via the control panel "on/off" button, has failed open. Just a suggestion, but I seem to remember that UK manufactured vans had (may still have) a relay (presumably D+ triggered) that automatically turned off all internal lighting when the engine was running, intended to prevent white light showing through windows at night, and also to maintain maximum night vision for the driver. Might this be the case with Bill's Compass, and if so, might the defect be due to that relay (if present) having failed? Bill hasn't mentioned whether his slide out step functions as it should, and retracts automatically (or gives a warning) if the engine is started while it is extended. Might give a clue? Also, I note the off charge voltage of the leisure battery hasn't yet been confirmed. If the low battery power cut off has triggered, this would also cut internal power, although I assume connecting mains power should normally mean that, with the charger turned on, the cut-off should reset. But again, this will be a relay function and it is possible the relay has failed. Final thought. Long shot! Our control panel has a quirk in that if the panel is turned on when the fresh water tank is empty the low water level indication begins flashing. If the panel is not then turned off, after some time it locks out and won't respond to any control buttons at all. The remedy is to disconnect the 230V supply, and then remove the main, 50A fuse that protects the 12V supply to the panel. In our case this fuse is mounted on a carrier attached to the seat base adjacent to the leisure battery, wait a few seconds, and the reinsert the fuse. This forces the panel to re-set and, lo-and-behold, normal service is restored with the control panel behaving properly (at least, that has been the result up until now! :-D). I just wonder of a similar tactic may cause Bill's system to re-set and clear the fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill kircher Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 Hiya, just parked up for the night. OK..... We was watching TV and it went off, the satalite dish would not park via the controls but it did park when I turned the ignition on, also the step works via the button and ignition, this are pictures of the control panel and the distribution board, have checked all the terminals and seem to be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 What is your leisure battery voltage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill kircher Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 Sorry, its 12.8volts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-07-28 5:13 PM ...Just a suggestion, but I seem to remember that UK manufactured vans had (may still have) a relay (presumably D+ triggered) that automatically turned off all internal lighting when the engine was running, intended to prevent white light showing through windows at night, and also to maintain maximum night vision for the driver. Might this be the case with Bill's Compass, and if so, might the defect be due to that relay (if present) having failed? Bill hasn't mentioned whether his slide out step functions as it should, and retracts automatically (or gives a warning) if the engine is started while it is extended. Might give a clue?... The following is copied from a posting of mine here in 2017 The policy for UK motorhome manufacturers to disable certain habitation 12V services (eg. lights, water-pump, hob/oven/fridge gas-igniters) goes right back to the 1990s when electronic safety-systems (ABS and the like) began to be fitted to vehicles. I remember asking Mr Dave Thomas (now MD of Auto-Trail) about this some 18 years ago, as my Herald motorhome (that he had designed) included this ‘feature’. I said that Continental motorhome converters clearly did not disable habitation-area 12V services, so it seemed strange that UK converters apparently considered doing this to be essential. Mr Thomas’s reply was that the ‘ploy’ originally permitted any 12V equipment that was fitted to UK-built caravans to also be used in UK-built motorhomes without being concerned about whether the equipment might have an EMC-related impact on the vehicle. Having introduced this ‘fix’, it had become standard practice and all UK motorhome converters now did this irrespective of whether the practice was necessary or rational. I asked if there were any UK regulations forcing UK motorhome converters to disable the 12V system as a matter of course. Mr Thomas replied that he was not aware of any, adding that if I was able to establish the legal position he would be interested to learn what I had found out. 12V-disabling is a habit UK motorhome converters developed in the ‘fear of EMC problems’ days and, although there’s nothing forcing them to do it, the habit is deeply ingrained and they will not be prepared to break it. Historically (when UK-built motorhomes had a quite simple electrical system) there would be 3 relays. A charge relay, a fridge relay, and an ‘isolation relay' that prevented all 12V-powered elements in the habitation area (except for the fridge) from operating when the motorhome’s engine was running. It’s near certain that a 2004 Compass motorhome would have been fitted with the ‘EMC isolation’ feature, but whether this would be integrated into the CBE Distribution Box (which might explain the “EX” suffix) or separate is anybody’s guess. If the DS-520 EX is the culprit, this link may be useful https://www.justcaravanparts.co.uk/products/205218 (Sample images of DS-520 and PC-200 PCBs attached below) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill kircher Posted August 6, 2021 Author Share Posted August 6, 2021 Hi and thanks for the info. The latest is, ordered part from caravan parts but just got an email saying its not actually in stock and can be up to 8 weeks. Can the ds-520ex be swapped for a ds 300 Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 It's certainly possible (and quite common) for a CBE electrical system to comprise a PC-200 control-panel and a DS300 Distribution Box. https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/user/downloads/CBE%20PC100%20KIT%20&%20PC200%20KIT%20instruction%20manual.pdf A basic 'swapping' stumbling-block is that a DS300 has 10 fuseways, whereas a DS520 has 15 fuseways. Consequently if your Compass Castaway's system exploits the DS520's greater potential and sophistication, it certainly would not be a simple straight swap. The differences should be evident from the two attached images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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