Deffheads Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Self adhesive 'camping car' stickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 Unable to post photo, do not know how to reduce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 https://www.iota.org.uk/blog/blind-spot-stickers-for-all-vehicles-over-35t-in-france-new-law-in-place-from-1st-january-2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Previous forum discussion on these threads https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=Angles+morts&author=&days=&Submit=Search (To reduce the size of a file, this application is probably as good as any.) https://www.reduceimages.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deffheads Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 Has anyone got these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 I see that ebay has an advert for 'motorhome' versions of the stickers. (I've no idea if these are French legal!) https://tinyurl.com/ffjnkpjy And the sticker with "CAMPING CAR" on is a copy of an image I bodged up and posted here as a sort of 'joke', so that certainly isn't French legal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Derek Uzzell - 2021-09-26 3:33 PM I see that ebay has an advert for 'motorhome' versions of the stickers. (I've no idea if these are French legal!)) There are only 2 legal versions both have "CE" markings 1 for Trucks & 1 for Bus any bought from Ebay will unlikely meet the requirements of a French accident investigator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 When the French regulation was brought in, the size of the stickers (25cm height x 17cm width) and their placement on a vehicle were clearly stated, as was the design of the two stickers (one showing a lorry and the other a 3-axle coach/bus). However (although I can well believe that some sticker producers may have added a CE-marking to their products) I’d be surpised if that’s mandatory as a) the Angles Morts regulation is a French national initiative and b) the CE-marking scheme does not seem appropriate for this type of product. Can you provide a link, please, confirming that all Angles Morts stickers MUST carry the CE-marking? This 17 February 2021 “Campng-Car Magazine” article https://www.camping-car.com/reglementation/26341-piqure-de-rappel-la-signalisation-des-angles-morts-est-obligatoire-pour-les-camping-cars-de-plus-de-35-tonnes advised ...it does not matter whether you choose the truck or the bus (sticker), both are valid on motorhomes. While waiting for a hypothetical dedicated sticker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A900ss Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Not that this has any legal basis at all but I’ve just come back from a week in France and no MH's have these stickers on that I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 A900ss - 2021-09-27 4:45 PM Not that this has any legal basis at all but I’ve just come back from a week in France and no MH's have these stickers on that I saw. Which may just mean you didn't see any with a MAM exceeding 3.5 tonnes. The French have only relatively recently gained what we know a "grandfather rights", so for French motorhomers getting a licence to drive a motorhome exceeding 3.5 tonnes was expensive and time consuming. That dictates that most vans will be at, or below 3.5, tonnes and the rule only applies to those over 3.5 tonnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 We are currently in France having been on the Loire, out to Royan and now il D’Oleron. About 2 weeks so far and I have seen plenty of vans (all French) displaying both truck and bus versions. I have no doubt many have not bothered so far, but without checking vin plates one can not determine what percentage should be displaying. A decent proportion of them are, like mine about the 7 metre mark, so not obviously over the 3500kg limit. Even saw one of those unimog style German plated desert crossing type vans at about 6 metres long and 4 or 5 metres high ( they could just about manage the steps),but it looked odd with its angle mort stickers, although perhaps its blind spots are worse than a conventional Motorhome due to the height! Seen more angle mort signs on French vans than British or Irish vans with or without (only one spotted) Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchConnection Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Just back from our first post-Covid foray and most definitely all French-plated Camping Cars that looked over 3.5 tonnes (and some that didn't) had the (rather ugly) stickers. Lots of Dutch vehicles about at the moment but all looked less than 3.5 tonnes and only one with a sticker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchConnection Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 You must have been close to us! Vaux-sur-mer, Azay le Rideau, Trésor, Chinon, Chenenceau in the past 10 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Landed Cherbourg, Issigny, Fougères, Saumur, found a nice little Aire in Blere (camping car park) by the river Cher and just a few km from Chenencoux then Amboise camp site, Royan (ccp) and now on the Aire at St Denis d’Oleron before we head slowly north for the boat on the 8th. A few old favourites to get us going again!! Better stop now before we drift the thread, but a decent number of vans with angle mort stickers. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchConnection Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Sorry for thread drift. The Aire in Blere looks interesting, didn't know about it until already on the campsite at Le Moulin Fort (excellent.). Maybe next time (OH is addicted to Chenenceau!) To keep on thread... seeing more and more stickers, don't know when or if the Gendarmerie will start to take interest but why not comply for the sake of a few euros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Our experience very different - been in France 4 weeks and seen few stickers. Those that were stickered have generally been liners or tag axle - ie very obviously over 3.5 tonnes. Certainly a lot of French larger A class vans (which I’m 90% sure will come in at 4000kg or more) have no stickers. We’ve got some with us but haven’t put them on because they’re not only very ugly but they appear to be hard to remove without damage. We’re only here another week, sadly, but when we get back are going to look into getting some film which is easier to remove from the van and attaching the stickers to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Magnetic versions of these ‘stickers’ are readily available. Obviously of little use if a motorhome is an A-class design with all-plastic bodywork. But if a ‘heavy’ motorhome has its original tin cab, magnetic stickers could be attached to that. This ebay ‘motorhome’ entry advertises two magnetic stickers, plus one self adhesive sticker https://tinyurl.com/yetzt3am but ‘official format’ stickers (lorry or coach image) can also be purchased (example advert here) https://tinyurl.com/46vx2hed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Maybe a translation to french Or other languages of “ if you cannot see my mirrors, I cannot see you” would set minds thinking, or upon reflection, probably not! ;-) Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 These warning signs I believe are only required in Urban Areas, (awaiting definition) The French are renown for their pragmatism hence why; The magnetic variety are for those wishing to easily and quickly dispense with this piece of artwork on exiting an urban area and heading for non urban area. Typically the time stressed vehicule acier driver. The stick-on are of course for non ferrous application, as typically to be found on larger motor homes, as predominately driven by OAPs with an inverter and hairdryer on board plus plenty of time on their hands to unstick the aberration:-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 The rationale behind the Angles Morts ‘stickers’ is that this might reduce accidents involving heavy vehicles (over 3500kg) and pedestrians/cyclists, and there’s no doubt that such accidents will primarily occur in urban areas. However, I can’t find anything in the French regulations stating that the law applies only to urban areas and (consequently) would not apply outside urban areas. What I can find is plenty of online entries (mostly on truck-related websites) saying that the law applies only in an urban environment (example here) https://fleet.ie/france-now-requires-blind-spot-warning-stickers-for-heavy-goods-vehicles/ and even an advert suggesting that the benefit of the magnetic sticker was that it could easily be removed when the vehicle ‘went rural’. But (as far as I can see) there’s nowt in the French law https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000042865682 stating (or even suggesting) that the law applies ‘urban only’ and it would be VERY odd indeed if it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 The question is why would you bother removing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 My interpretation of simian’s comments is that the Angles Morts (AM) signs do nothing to improve the appearance of a vehicle (and, of course, the requirement for the signs only applies in France). So let’s imagine there’s a snazzy UK-registered coach that’s going to take a group of UK tourists down to Spain for a 10-day holiday. The coach-driver could stick magnetic AM signs on the coach when it enters France and remove the signs when it crosses into Spain where the coach’s pristine good looks would not be disfigured by ugly AM signs. Then, when the tour’s time in Spain was over, the magnetic AM signs could be reattached easily to the coach for the journey back through France and then removed when the coach reentered the UK. I’ve no problem with that imaginary scenario as the AM signs are definitely not vehicle beauty-spots, but I’m uncomfortable with the suggestion that the AM signs are only mandatory if a 3500kg+ vehicle is operating in an urban environment. As I said above, this ‘exemption’ is commonly referred to online (examples here) https://tinyurl.com/nx8rxkye It came up in this 17 December 2020 French newspaper article https://www.ouest-france.fr/societe/securite-routiere/angles-morts-sur-les-poids-lourds-des-autocollants-pour-proteger-les-deux-roues-7090104 Au 1er janvier 2021. Tous les véhicules de plus de 3,5 t circulant en milieu urbain, qu’ils transportent des marchandises ou des personnes, devront apposer ce sticker « sur les côtés et à l’arrière du véhicule ». and this early-2021 link https://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=167609 mentions ‘urban areas’ and the lack of clarity regarding that phrase. Not clear A legal article was published this month. It contains nothing about the 'urban areas' where this compulsory sticker is needed. That was, however, stated in the information published last year. It said carriers would be exempt if they were merely driving through, not around in, an urban area. TLN has asked the French authorities for clarification on this point. The organization will communicate this as soon as they know more. See also this piece that appeared on Page 134 of the July 2021 issue of MMM Magazine in a “Touring in Europe” article. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/mmm-the-motorhomers-magazine/20210527/285847261059842 It may be the case, then, that the original intention/plan was for Angles Morts signs to be compulsory only in urban areas, but that ‘exemption’ has not been carried into French law. If the exemption is enshrined in French law, it would be nice to know where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Thanks. I understand that UK drivers would want to take the ugly sticker off when back in the UK but I didn't understand the reasoning of removing it while still touring in France, seemed a bit of a waste of time. Still each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 This link is to an article titled "Reading is believing: The truth effect and source credibility” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810011002200 It would APPEAR that, sometime in the past, a credible source stated that Angles Morts (AM) stickers were (or would be) mandatory only when a 3500kg+ vehicle was being operated within an urban area. As failing to display these AM stickers when legally necessary would result in prosecution and a fine, this statement should immediately be questioned a) because ‘an urban area’ is ill-defined and b) it’s impossible to see how such an idea would be workable in practice. Much more logical and sensible would be for it to be mandatory for any 3500kg+ vehicle being driven anywhere in France to have AM stickers on it and (as far as I can make out) that’s what the relevant French regulation (and their Code de la Route) now says. The trouble is that, once a statement from a credible source is believed to be true (which it might well be when the statement is made) and enters the internet’s publc domain, it will be repeated as true ad infinitum until challenged and found to be false. It has to be said that there are some traffic-related regulations that are ‘area sensitive’, that (one might think) should be rational and simple, but have changed over time and still seem odd. For example, the bicycle helmet laws in Spain. https://www.healthplanspain.com/blog/expat-tips/467-cycling-laws-in-spain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 Certainly not disagreeing with the basic point but surely the concept of urban areas in French traffic law is already well established via speed limits? Not that this helps much - some hamlets seem to qualify for a name plaque! (Not that I’m bitter about a speeding fine a couple of years ago…) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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