Angles Mort stickers

[Derek Uzzell]

Simian’s posting above included the following comment "These warning signs I believe are only required in Urban Areas, (awaiting definition)”

 

That the Angles Morts (AM) stickers are only mandatory for vehicles being driven 'in urban areas’ or ‘in urban environnments’ is stated as absolute fact in many online references to the stickers.

 

However, when referring to the law itself or to the Code de la Route, I can’t find anything to suggest that there’s a ‘geographical’ limitation and - as far as I can see - the law mandates that 3500kg+ vehicles (except for certain specifically defined types) must always carry the AM stickers when they are being driven anywhere in France.

 

If the AM sticker-related law does NOT state that it applies just to 'urban areas', there’s no need to seek guidance on what that term means. If the AM sticker-related law DOES state that it applies only to 'urban areas’, it’s understandable that a firm definition might be sought.

 

The French term commonly used in the Code de la Route is “le millieu urbain”, but it’s a loose term.

 

https://www.linguee.com/french-english/translation/milieu+urbain.html

 

The equivalent in English might be ‘in town’ and it might be assumed that in the UK this meant an area delimited by speed-limit signage, as you are suggesting might be the case for France.

 

But - as I’ve said above - if the AM law applies to all of France, it doesn’t matter what meaning urban area, urban environment or millieu urbain has.

[TeamRienza]

And finally, (as they used to say at the end of ‘news at ten’).

On the municipal site at Quiberon yesterday, and sat beside a Motorhome on his pitch was an empty boat trailer for a rib of about 6 to 7 metres I reckon. It had angle morts signs affixed above the mudguards. I have seen them on large towed hgv trailers, but did not expect to see one on a boat trailer!

 

Davy

[Derek Uzzell]

The French regulations include guidance on where Angles Morts stickers should be positioned on trailers.

 

Presumably, if a motorhome has a 3500kg+ weight and it tows any sort of trailer (eg. a car on an A-frame), that trailer (or car) will need to carry the stickers as well as the vehicle doing the towing.

 

This French law is plainly aimed at large commercial vehicles (trucks, buses, coaches) but 'collateral damage' has affected motorhomes.

[flyboyprowler]

stevec176 - 2021-10-02 7:21 PM

 

The question is why would you bother removing them?

 

Having just travelled from the UK to Germany, then down to Spain and, of course through France, the stickers are clearly evident on a lot of 3500kg+ vans. Why remove them after leaving France, well if left on for a considerable time, paint discoloration would probably become an issue. At a relatively low cost, I will now remove my stickers as we will not be back in France until next February, and our baby does NOT look nice with them on!!

 

Surprisingly, one UK person we spoke to refused to have the stickers on, and was prepared to accept the 135€ fine, if imposed, and that money would buy a lot if AM stickers!!

 

As Derek says, it is difficult to remain away from urban areas while travelling or indeed touring in France, so go with the flow and remove the beasties when you leave, or use the AM's to cover dents and scratches!!

[Derek Uzzell]

flyboyprowler - 2021-10-07 5:02 PM

 

...As Derek says, it is difficult to remain away from urban areas while travelling or indeed touring in France,..

 

I didn’t actually say that, as it would have been stating the bleeding obvious.

 

What I did say was that - although it’s been stated repeatedly (including in an article in MMM Magazine) that the Angles Morts ‘stickers’ regulations apply ONLY in French urban area - there SEEMS to be nothing within the current regulations to confirm that this is the case.

 

Removal of the stickers is a digression. What should really matter is where in France (country-wide or only in urban areas) the stickers should be attached to a 3500kg+ vehicle.

[simian]

Not for the first time, what appears to be the question of defining a seemingly simple regulation or rule, gets a conflicting assortment of responses.

My post was merely reflecting my own confusion of course, Although I do find these fugly AM warning

signs visually offensive and difficult to ignore, which is probably the 'designed' desired effect I guess.

Mind you on some vans it could be a question of lipstick on a pig, mention no model names !

 

Of course even in transiting from Urban to Non Urban areas (or vice versa) I would hardly be bothered

in removing them, even the magnetic variety, then possibly having to replace a few km. down the road,

even if this zonal area distinction was permitted. Not to say that I wouldn't remove the easily detached

magnetic type on exiting France!

 

But I'm not convinced as yet that:

1. Non French Reg. Vehicles are even required to sport them.

2. They are required on any vehicle on the Autoroutes, hence the availability of easily removable magnetic types

that can be demounted before the high speed air blast does the job for you! Yeah that's what I thought,

but I did read it on the internet.

 

I shall probably just go buy an el cheapo 3 some before my winter 5 month southern sojourn, At best it will save a

deal of reading of conflicting interpretations on the forums, and who knows it might even save the

life of a French cyclist !

[Derek Uzzell]

simian - 2021-10-08 7:13 PM

 

...But I'm not convinced as yet that:

1. Non French Reg. Vehicles are even required to sport them.

2. They are required on any vehicle on the Autoroutes, hence the availability of easily removable magnetic types

that can be demounted before the high speed air blast does the job for you! Yeah that's what I thought,

but I did read it on the internet...

 

This 6 January 2021 webpage

 

https://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/actualites/les-vehicules-lourds-doivent-desormais-etre-equipes-dune-signalisation-materialisant

 

specifically highlights that the Angles Morts regulations apply to ‘foreign’ vehicles.

 

À noter : les véhicules lourds étrangers circulant sur le sol Français sont également soumis à cette obligation.

 

and this was (to the best of my knowledge) always understood to be the case when the AM regulations began to be discussed on motorhome forums.

 

The statement’s inference is also that the regulations apply everywhere in France where heavy vehicles are being driven, not just to ‘urban areas’.

 

What I find surprising is that the 'only in urban areas’ advice has been widely accepted as factual, when it would be a peculiar limitation, difficult to police and would complicate what is actually a quite simple law.

[simian]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-10-09 8:46 AM

 

This 6 January 2021 webpage

 

https://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/actualites/les-vehicules-lourds-doivent-desormais-etre-equipes-dune-signalisation-materialisant

 

specifically highlights that the Angles Morts regulations apply to ‘foreign’ vehicles.

 

À noter : les véhicules lourds étrangers circulant sur le sol Français sont également soumis à cette obligation.

 

and this was (to the best of my knowledge) always understood to be the case when the AM regulations began to be discussed on motorhome forums.

 

The statement’s inference is also that the regulations apply everywhere in France where heavy vehicles are being driven, not just to ‘urban areas’.

 

What I find surprising is that the 'only in urban areas’ advice has been widely accepted as factual, when it would be a peculiar limitation, difficult to police and would complicate what is actually a quite simple law.

 

You have quoted probably the most reliable if not definitive source for the correct application of this AM regulation, vis a vis as to

whether Foreign Vehicles (non French) are required to affix this warning signage.

 

Until an hour ago I hadn't actually read the regs. Having previously been reading various forums on the issue, and seeing if it was possible to obtain a forum sourced consensus on whether sticking these AM scabs (should be appliques) was mandatory for non French reg. vehicles, it's difficult notwithstanding as you state, it appears to be quite a simple law.

 

'Applique' because you'd think the at least the French made signs would have been a bit craft like, if not artistic! Instead

of lurid plastic crap.

 

Now where did I read that post about the AMs only being required on commercial vehicles !!

 

An anomaly perhaps, Vehicle under 3.5t and say 7m length, no AM. Vehicle over 3.5t and under 7m, AM yes.

Which is the more likely cyclist clipper.

 

For the price of a few quid I'll be wearing them with pride!, so the semantics concerning interpretation of the regs. will be

academic for many of us, not really worth the hassle of an argument with Gendarmes, which we'll likely lose.