rooster63 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Took my van to National Tyres as I suspected I had one very slow puncture, (1 or 2 psi per week). Took,it there as they had fitted my new tyres some time back. Fitter did a very thorough check and discovered the valve was leaking. They were the valves from the first set of tyres as NT don’t stock steel cored valves. They are going to order them in and as they come in sets of 4 is it worth having all the valves changed? Or should I just get the one tyre done and keep the valves as spares? No idea how much they will charge for the fitting of 4, imagine it will take some time as will have to remove each wheel one at a time. Front tyres running at 60psi, rear at 65psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 The genuine Fiat steel tyre valves, suitable for Fiat alloy and steel wheels, were part number F0001369354080 and £12.50 each when I bought some in 2018. these are for sale singly on ebay cheaper and claim to be compatible https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162165707190 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 These 2019 and 2017 forum threads related to 'clamp-in' tyre valves. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Dust-caps/52186/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/High-pressure-bolt-in-tyre-valves/46453/ The clamp-in valve fitted to the steel wheels of Fiat Ducato X250/X290 motorhomes that started life with 'camping-car' tyres has been a Schrader 65765-68. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Not sure about getting them from EBay, too many Items of dubious quality to determine how genuine they are. The whole purpose of fitting these valves is that they are designed to cope with high pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 The Schrader 65765-68 valve is shown on the right of the image attached below. The valve seals against the underside of the wheel rim using an O-ring that sits in a shallow groove in the valve's base. This type of seal demands that the rim's underside be in perfect condition and a relatively high tightening torque can be used. It's more common for clamp-in valves to have a 'stepped washer' seal that's more tolerant of the rim's condition, but the tightening torque is a lot lower for such valves. It will be noticed that the 65765-68 valve has a long 'barrel' (arrowed in green). This allows the wire retainer of the standard plastic wheel-trim to fit properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I'd be tempted to keep the spares, although saying that had one fail last October, called in a small filling station which had a tyre fitting place at rear and they replaced the valve within an hour after they finished work on another customers car, surprised NT don't carry them in stock. p.s. ours are now all clamp-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 My experience has been that few tyre-fitting outlets will stock clamp-in tyre valves suitable for Ducato steel wheels. The 235030 valve on this Auto4 webpage https://www.auto4.co.uk/valves-and-valve-hardware/clamp-in-valves would probably be OK (I think I fitted this valve to the wheels of my 2006 Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome) but it's not the Schrader 65765-68 valve. A high-pressure snap-in valve alternative for Ducato steel wheels would be a TR600XHP valve. https://www.youngautomotivedirect.co.uk/Products/schrader-premium-tubeless-rubber-valves This other webpage relates to Schrader "B" valves (manufactured in China) and the difference in price to the Schrader Premium valves is worth noting. https://www.youngautomotivedirect.co.uk/Products/schrader-b-line-tyre-valves A big bag of common-or-garden car snap-in tyre valves (made who knows where) can be startlingly inexpensive, whereas a 'metal' clamp-in valve from a trustworthy manufacturer like Schrader will never be cheap. This is one reason why a tyre-fitting outlet is unlikely to hold in stock Schrader 65765-68 valves (a box of 10 is the minimum order) unless they can be sure there will be customers for them. Fiat Ducatos (and Citroen Relays/Peugeot Boxers) will now have tyre valves with a TPMS sensor. This ebay advert is for a 'genuine' valve https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372976100925 though cheaper 'pattern' versions are evidently available https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000794258029.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 They’re actually alloy wheels so not sure if different valves are needed. Still aiming for National Tyres to get back to me as they are supposed to be sourcing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I think a 2013 Timberland Destiny would have been fitted with Fiat's standard Ducato alloy wheels (1st image below). The wheel's 'valve hole' (2nd image below) looks like it would take the same clamp-in valve that was used with Ducato steel wheels. As there will be no plastic wheel-trims, any appropriate good quality clamp-in valve (eg. the 235030 valve from Auto4 that I mentioned earlier) should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 This USA link provides useful information about tyre valves and maximum inflation pressures. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=208#:~:text=Metal%20clamp%2Din%20valves%20allow,applications%2C%20such%20as%206mm%20(. Schrader's catalogue provides similar advice regarding maximum pressures for the various valve types, but it's also worth noting from the image attached below the availability of rubber snap-in valves with a maximum inflation pressure of 14bar (203psi). Ford Transit Mk 6 vehicles were factory-fitted with German-made TR600HP tyre valves that gained a notorious reputation for failure (two valves failed on my Hobby Transit-based motorhome). Ford never acknowledged this problem - though the UK tyre-fitting trade was well aware of it - but Transit Mk 7 vehicles were factory-fitted with the Schrader 65753-68 14bar valve instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Think of this another way. Would you want to fly on a plane that had cheap parts of dubious origin bought from Ebay or the approved parts from the manufacturer? Pattern parts and traceability are a nightmare for the aviation industry with whole departments and companies set up to to detect them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I bought new high pressure valves online, there are more sources than ebay if you look. I had to buy 2 sets as I had a Tag Axle van and have 2 spares. From memory there are basically 2 hole sizes in rims used on motorhomes and light commercial vehicles. As long as you know the size you should have no bother. I spoke to someone at the company I used and they were very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 ColinM50 - 2022-01-21 10:28 AM Think of this another way. Would you want to fly on a plane that had cheap parts of dubious origin bought from Ebay or the approved parts from the manufacturer? Pattern parts and traceability are a nightmare for the aviation industry with whole departments and companies set up to to detect them We are probably all using pattern parts all the time..... Reminds me of the Astronaut John Glenn quote: "‘I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of 2 million parts — all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.’ — Attributed to John Glenn" Although I would hope that the 2 million parts he was referring to were new........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 747 - 2022-01-21 12:59 PM ...From memory there are basically 2 hole sizes in rims used on motorhomes and light commercial vehicles. As long as you know the size you should have no bother. I spoke to someone at the company I used and they were very helpful. Metal clamp-in valves are available to fit either 11.5mm (.453") or 16mm (.625" ) diameter rim-holes, as well as specialty applications (eg. trucks or trailers) where the rim-holes can be 6mm (.236") or 8mm (.315"). Ducato X250/X290 wheels have the much more common 11.5mm rim-hole, but I think the wheels of 'first generation' Ducatos (1981-1993) had 16mm rim-holes. (When the rubber snap-in tyre valves on both of my 2005 Hobby motorhome's rear wheels failed in France, the wheels were taken to a tyre-fitting firm in Avranches. I had asked that the rubber valves be replaced by metal clamp-in valves and this was duly done - except unsuitable 8mm-diameter 'truck' valves were fitted rather than the 11.5mm-diameter valves that should have been used. I didn't notice this until I got back to the UK and, with hindsight, it was surprising that the 8mm valves in 11.5mm rim-holes hadn't leaked.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 The genuine Fiat steel valves are suitable for the OME steel wheels and alloys such as these plus the same wheel bolts are used for both types. https://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=125009975035&category=179679&pm=1&ds=0&t=1642444781000&ver=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 This 2014 forum thread may be of interest https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Metal-Tyre-valves-/35591/ At one stage Fiat offered two designs of 16" alloy wheel for the Ducato as shown in the image attached below. There was also another design for 15" alloy wheels. I was under the impression that the same Schrader clamp-in tyre valve was used for all OEM Ducato wheels (steel or alloy) but the 2014 thread suggests this was not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 As a follow-up I've attached an image of some clamp-in valves that I've collected over the years and - as should be apparent - these have two different designs. The 5 valves on the left of the row are (without their caps) 44mm in overall length and the 'nut' overlaps the 'barrel' beneath it. The 3 valves on the right of the row are slightly shorter (42mm) and the nut is 'inset' into the top of the barrel. The obvious difference is in the valves's threading, with the 1st type of valve having a long threaded section (red arrow) and the 2nd type having a much shorter threaded section (green arrow). This means that the 1st type of valve should potentially be better for fitting to an alloy wheel than the 2nd type, and it may well be that the Schrader 65765-68 valve factory-fitted to Ducato steel wheels would have been unsuitable for some OEM Fiat alloy wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 It wasn’t the valve after all. Took it to a tyre place that deal with commercial vehicles and they had valves rated up to 120psi. However when the fitter investigated further he found that the inner wall of the alloy wheel was corroded so difficult to get a good seal as surface not smooth. He has cleaned it up and says it will be ok for the time being but will happen again. Have been assured I it will only be another very slow air loss so not hazardous. Will check out wheel refurbishment companies and see what they advise. To cap it all when I got back into the van to bring it home the Check engine and yellow engine light came on. Not sure why unless it is repeated stop start engine with no chance to warm up. Going to take it for a run to see if that cures it and get an OBD reader to check for any codes. Never had that happen before. There’s always something, who would own a Motorhome?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 There's a good deal of online discussion relating to air-loss from alloy wheels (2010 example here) https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/trouble-shooter-february-2010/ Although the commonest cause is corrosion, porosity of the alloy that the wheel is made of can also result in air-loss, but it's to be expected that this will become evident when the wheel is new. (I remember noticing a new-looking alloy wheel in the corner of a motorhome dealership's reception area and - when I asked about this - being told that the wheel was being returned to the motorhome manufacturer as testing had shown that air was leaking through the metal.) This 2010 forum thread mentioned corrosion when clamp-in valves were fitted to alloy wheels. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Metal-Tyre-Valves/18810/ A link provided by Basil in that thread is still valid https://www.tyresave.co.uk/15-16-inch-alloys/ and includes the following information about the valves being advertised there We have Chrome Plated Metal Valves designed specifically for Alloy Wheels. They are especially needed when fitting alloy wheels to motorhomes where the original steel wheels were fitted with metal valves. The valves we supply have a nylon washer to ensure no damage to the paint finish of the alloys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 Code P0130 came up, something to with a sensor. Used the Ed the reader to erase the code but machine it couldn’t erase the code but when I went to start the engine warning light has gone out. Fingers crossed that it’s sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Derek Uzzell - 2022-01-22 12:24 PM There's a good deal of online discussion relating to air-loss from alloy wheels (2010 example here) https://www.motor.com/magazine-summary/trouble-shooter-february-2010/ Although the commonest cause is corrosion, porosity of the alloy that the wheel is made of can also result in air-loss, but it's to be expected that this will become evident when the wheel is new. (I remember noticing a new-looking alloy wheel in the corner of a motorhome dealership's reception area and - when I asked about this - being told that the wheel was being returned to the motorhome manufacturer as testing had shown that air was leaking through the metal.) This 2010 forum thread mentioned corrosion when clamp-in valves were fitted to alloy wheels. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Metal-Tyre-Valves/18810/ A link provided by Basil in that thread is still valid https://www.tyresave.co.uk/15-16-inch-alloys/ and includes the following information about the valves being advertised there We have Chrome Plated Metal Valves designed specifically for Alloy Wheels. They are especially needed when fitting alloy wheels to motorhomes where the original steel wheels were fitted with metal valves. The valves we supply have a nylon washer to ensure no damage to the paint finish of the alloys. Tyresave is the company I bought my two sets from. They were helpful and the delivery was quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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