mikkidee Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Good morning everyone, I hope you are all well? For some time now I've been having starting issues with my van. To try and cure the problem I've had a new starter motor,crankshaft position sensor and a new battery. It been into the garage and had the earth cable cleaned. When I turn the key to start the engine all I get is a slight hum, I do this maybe 3 or 4 times and then it will start. The enoying thing is it is intermittent to the point that when the garage had the van in it started every time. I'm now beginning to think it could be something to do with the immobiliser. Could any of you shed any light on what could be the problem? I know there is someone who writes on the MMM mag who has a fleet of Fiats but I don't know his name, someone did suggest emailing him. My van is a Fiat Ducato 2013 150BHP. Kind regard Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Welcome to the forum. I think first thing is still poor earthing. To check this run a new ground lead direct from the battery negative to the engine. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 thebishbus - 2022-05-13 8:36 AM Welcome to the forum. I think first thing is still poor earthing. To check this run a new ground lead direct from the battery negative to the engine. Brian B. As in this recent thread... https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Upgrading-Earth-strap-on-Peugeot-Boxer/60045/ The quick test would be to connect a single jump start cable directly from the battery NEGATIVE terminal to a clean metal part of the engine, eg a lifting eye. The MMM Technical expert for Fiat's is Nick Fisher and his contact details are in this thread... https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Dual-mass-flywheel-Fiat-Ducato/60033/ Keith. PS Cleaning the engine earth strap will have little effect if the strap is corroding internally, replacement is the only cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 thebishbus - 2022-05-13 8:36 AM Welcome to the forum. I think first thing is still poor earthing. To check this run a new ground lead direct from the battery negative to the engine. Brian B. Hi, I am sorry,but I do not think that this is a very practicable check to carry out on an X250, where the starter battery is located under the cab floor. A check may however be made using a temporary jumper cable, but it would need to have sufficient length. The engine earth connection is a well known source of problems on the X250, and can be checked by connecting a temporary jump cable between a clean bolt on the chassis, and an engine lifting lug. Some aftermarket immobilisers do interrupt the starter solenoid cable, and faulty relay contacts in the immobiliser could give rise to the symptoms described, as also could a faulty ignition switch. (Since the starter motor has been changed, I am assuming that the buzzing sound is due to incomplete movement of the starter solenoid.) I cannot see the logic behind replacing the crankshaft sensor, as if it was faulty it would cause rough running of the engine. Has the condition of the starter battery earth connection under the cab floor been checked? Corrosion of this lead has been reported. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Could the buzzing be the fuel pump pressurising the system each time the key is turned ? Also if you check the engine battery to body earth ,as suggested by Alan , it would also be worth checking that the starter motor lead connection at the positive side of the battery is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikkidee Posted May 13, 2022 Author Share Posted May 13, 2022 Thank you for all your replies, it is certainly food for thought. I have just been to start it, and this time, it nearly started first time. But before it did start I had quite a load click click click before it started. Regards Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Hello, I got your email through MMM and will reply directly but i thought it would be useful to post here too. The noise that you were hearing earlier in this thread was the buzzing from the fuel pump under the cab floor. This will run for up to 20 seconds after the ignition is switched off. Unless you have been in an accident, of course. The rapid clicking is what happens when the ECU thinks there might be just enough electricity to start the vehicle and 'gives start permission' but in reality there was insufficient to engage the solenoid and turn the starter so it does that. I have no doubt that this is an earth issue. You can prove this as has been suggested, by using one half of a set of jump leads and connecting the engine lifting eye to the earth stud under the bonnet. The solution will be to get a new earth lead made up. It will need to be at least18 inches long and you need to run it from the original earth stud under the air filter (where the original one is) to one of the studs that has some thread showing on the EGR valve. You will need a shakeproof washer and an M10 nut. And a 13mm spanner. It is pretty tight, so don't try this when the engine is hot! Leave the old earth cable in place. It can do no harm. Regards Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Wild thought are the contacts ok at the bottom of the ignition barrel?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Nick, While I agree in general with your reply above, there are two specific areas where I cannot follow your logic/statements. 1. I quote "The rapid clicking is what happens when the ECU thinks there might be just enough electricity to start the vehicle and 'gives start permission' but in reality there was insufficient to engage the solenoid and turn the starter so it does that." The above statement suggests that the starter motor solenoid is subject to the control of the ECU, as well as the ignition switch. This is not what is shown on Fiat eLearn drawing, E5010 for the x250 Ducato. The clicking must have been from the solenoid operating and then releasing when the starter motor current caused a voltage drop through the suspect earth connection. 2. "You will need a shakeproof washer and an M10 nut. And a 13mm spanner. M10 could be correct, but I would have thought that M8 was a more probable size for an earthing bolt or stud. The 13mm spanner is correct for this smaller size. An M10 nut would be more likely to require a 17mm spanner. Or does the x250 use special oversize nuts at the earth stud? I am sorry if this sounds pedantic, particularly since your experience is of immense value to forum members with problems. However what we post is written in tablets of stone, and errors can confuse future readers. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 You are absolutely correct about the nut and spanner Alan. It has been over 2 years since i did one of these jobs, but i did about 40 of them. You are correct about the rest as well to an extent. I wrote that in 5 minutes in a digestible manner for a non-expert to grasp. When the ECU is powered up it performs checks of basic systems before starting. Most modern vehicles do. My diagnosis and description is perfectly OK. The nut required may well be M8. It might be M6. Can't remember. Beginning to remember why i don't come here very often. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikkidee Posted May 14, 2022 Author Share Posted May 14, 2022 Thanks Nick, I've given the information to out local garage in Ulverston. I will let you know how I get on. Kind regards Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.