Robinhood Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 39 minutes ago, chudders1 said: .....I'm afraid starting the topic has possibly upset some which was not my intention. ...well, it's elicited some lively debate, but I don't think you've upset anyone.🙂 As a topic of some wider interest it was well worth the posting and comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Chudders, Totally agree with RH, don't beat yourself up over it and hopefully we've all learned something from the discussion. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul2 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 I've been reading this with interest because because I intend to upgrade my van soon. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Having previously used SV for 2 vans, the advice I giftware first class. We had an Elddis Aspire 255 which had been upgraded from 3500 to 3650 as a paper excersise by Glossops as the payload at 3500 was pathetic and likely to go over very easily unless I let wife and 2 dogs at home. To get to 3850 could be done with semi air alone but if I wanted 2240 over the rear axle it would nee the 215/70/r15 tyres replaced with 225/70/r15 to get the full weight in the right places.on our Burstner the heater is under one side seat and the water tank under the other, so the only real storage is from half way back and in the garage. This if taken to 5000 would have possibly put a massive load on the rear axle to the extent it in my opinion would effect the steering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 A bugbear with the current O&AL forum is that there is no simple way for a motorhome owner to provide immediately visible details of their vehicle (make, exact model, build-year, etc.) without including that information within their postings. Regarding 'X250' and 'X290' models, when a motorhome's design includes the original cab it's easy enough to spot the difference from the vehicle's frontal treatment. 'X250' Citroen Relay/Fiat Ducato/Peugeot Boxer models began to be marketed in mid-2006. There was a face-lift in mid-2014 that, amongst other changes, altered the look of the front end. The revised models are (for convenience) commonly referred to as 'X290' and the frontal differences will be apparent from this comparison image (of a Citroen Relay). It's normally straight forward to decide if a X250-based coachbuilt motorhome was built on a 'light' or 'heavy' chassis, as the former will have 15" wheels and the latter will have 16" wheels. It's more difficult with X290s as - although 'light'-chassis vehicles had 15" wheels as standard - 16" wheels were a factory option. Chudders's 2016 T720 is on a Ducato 'X290' base, but its 16" wheels might mean it was built on a 'light' or a 'heavy' chassis. It would be possible to decide which by closely inspecting the wheels (or the motorhome's data-plates) but it's evident from 2015/2016 Burstner brochures that T720s were only built on the 'light' chassis. Fiat specifies a GVW of 3650kg for 'light' chassis Ducato X290s, but most motorhome converters market their 'light' chassis X290s with a 'downrated' 3500kg GVW for driving-licence-related reasons. The same motorhome model may be offered on a Ducato 'light' chassis as standard, but with a 'heavy' chassis as an option. The 'heavy' chassis variant will have a significantly higher price, weigh a bit more (say 40kg from bigger brakes, beefier suspension, etc.) and have a higher GVW (up to 4400kg). It's reasonable to think that a 'heavy'-chassis Ducato X290-based coachbuilt motorhome with a 4400kg GVW could be weight-uprated further, but weight-uprating a 'light'-chassis X290-based coachbuilt motorhome with a GVW of 3500kg/3650kg to anywhere near a GVW of 4400kg would be very inadvisable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chudders1 Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 Thanks for the above information, good of you to take the time to explain the differences. Now I know I have an X290 but whether it is a light or heavy chassis, no idea. I have all the original documents, maybe it says on there. I bought it at 3 years old so what it was ordered with I don't know. I believe the 225/75 R16 wheels are original although I have replaced the tyres about 6 months ago with new tyres. Will go and look at documents Thanks very much for everyones help and comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 I think a number of posts previously have indicated that it is likely to be on the light chassis, but you have yourself quoted your existing max axle weights as 1850/2000, which would definitively make it the light chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chudders1 Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 Thanks R H yes those axle weight firures are on both the Fiat and Burstner Vin plate although the Fiat plate shows MAM as 3650 so I gues it was down plated. If it was plated as 3650 it wouldn't help me much because the axle weights would remain the same. and it is the rear axle that I would like a bit more weight. I am underweight on the front by quite some way but I have nowhere towards the front to transfer items. When I last went to a weighbridge I was close to the rear limit hence my enquiry to see what options and prices were available to increase the limit even by 100 kg would be better but it appears to be all or nothing i.e 2000 as it is or 2240 with air suspension. (I think that is the figure !!) edited to remove my comments about DVSA roadside check tolerances as it would take this thread off the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Bit late with this question, so apologies for that. However, having read back up the string, I'm wondering whether chudders1 has taken his van, fully laden (i.e. all food, clothing, bedding, liquids including fresh water tank, fuel tank, drinks, books, pets and passengers to a weighbridge and obtained that actual, working, worst case, all up vehicle weight plus both actual axle loads. If not, I think he would be well advised to do so before pursuing any uprating. If he has, it would be very interesting to know what the actual figures were - particularly the rear axle load. If the result is that either the GVW or either axle were flirting with overload then at least he know whether the problem is rear axle only with no GVW problem, or a combined GVW and rear axle load problem. The problem is that however straightforward the question (and it was, admirably so! 🙂), the answer will be constrained by the engineering limitations of tyres, wheels (possibly also) hubs and bearings, brakes, suspension (i.e. springs and dampers), each of which have working limits and safety margins, all of which have to be taken into account when authorising any uprating. So a suitable qualified engineer is necessary, and should be the only person who can issue design weight certificates. There may be some variation between what two different engineers would certify - it will be a matter of judgement to some degree, probably involving an appraisal of their individual approach to risk and their own liability if they get it wrong and that cones back to bite them, but also consideration of the vehicle characteristics, such as rear overhang, which can influence the dynamic stresses on the rear axle when in motion. So, if that weighbridge trip has yet to be made, I'd say get it done soonest (making sure that the van is a heavy as it is likely to be in use) and postpone further uprating considerations until the results are to hand. Upset? Not in the slightest - just intrigued, and somewhat puzzled, by the story and VWE. This was written before I saw that Chudders1 had clarified that the weighbridge trip had been made. In which case, it would be interesting to know what the actual figures were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chudders1 Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 It was couple of months ago I weighed the van but can't remember the figures off hand and now I have been looking for the weigh bridge ticket and can't find it. I remember the front was a long way under. Had it weighed loaded in anticipation of going away. Will have to go again but I am away from tomorrow for some time (not in motorhome) so you may not hear from me for quite a while. Very early start so I reckon it will be off to bed soon, but thanks everyone for the information provided thus far, all very interesting (and confusing at times) Best wishes to you all. PS Please don't think me rude if I don't reply for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just wait and whit a b license you can drive 4 tons or more. So all weight talks are out of the blue hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 The driving licence revision Hans mentions is referred to here https://trans.info/en/eu-revising-driving-license-regulations-321612 A more radical approach was recently being considered by the UK government https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2022/driving-licence-weight-change/ (I notice that there was a 2022 UK petition seeking a Category B licence weight increase from 3500kg to 3650kg. This had attracted 2108 signatures when it closed.) https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/611715 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Hans said: Just wait and whit a b license you can drive 4 tons or more. So all weight talks are out of the blue hopefully. But if your MH is currently plated to 3,500 kg (3.5 Metric Tonnes) to be able to drive with a current Category B licence, then you will still have to have it re-plated to a higher MTPLM if you wish to drive it with any increased licence weight limit. So 'weight talks' and questions of re-plating may become even more prevalent as owners of 3,500 kg MH's chase the new licence limit. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Agreed. That you may become entitled to drive heavier vehicles than at present, doesn't mean that you would also be legally able drive an over-loaded vehicle providing its actual (overladen) weight was still within the permissible weight range of your driving licence. The two issues are quite separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chudders1 Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 7:37 PM, chudders1 said: It was couple of months ago I weighed the van but can't remember the figures off hand and now I have been looking for the weigh bridge ticket and can't find it. I remember the front was a long way under. Had it weighed loaded in anticipation of going away. Will have to go again but I am away from tomorrow for some time (not in motorhome) so you may not hear from me for quite a while. Very early start so I reckon it will be off to bed soon, but thanks everyone for the information provided thus far, all very interesting (and confusing at times) Best wishes to you all. PS Please don't think me rude if I don't reply for a while. Ref above Hi all, Thanks for all the above comments. Now an update. Had a medical filled out D4 and D2, sent to DVLA and C1 entitlement reinstated and dvla completed in 9 days and licence in my grubby little hand and runs for 3 years from processing date. Can't complain at that. Now uprated my van with SV Tech. Had no reply from van weight. Purchased air suspension for the rear from Marcle Leisure. Recieved in 2 days. Installed today. SV tech also replied today with all documents including new weight 'plate'. I made all the arrangements and purchases while I was away. Front now 1850 kg. rear 2,240 Kg. Gross 3,850 Kg. All forms supplied by SV Tech and will be sent off tomorrow to DVLA. Be off to a weibridge again soon. From past weighing I will be well within the above weight limits. I am aware of the implications of a higher weight regarding speed etc and city LEZ, neither of which will bother me in the slightest. I don' go abroad so no problems for me there. The cheaper road tax will be handy. As a slight off topic I have heard now from several fairly reliable sources that the requirement for C1 entitlement may be ammended by the government. so that a B car licence will entitle driving up to 4250 Kg or possibly even 7500 Kg.s. Decision alleged to be in March. If this is enacted then the need for C1 renewal will not be needed. Watch this space as they say. We that are over 70 will just need to renew a standard car licence every 3 years with no medical etc. assuming no other medical complications.. Gratefull for all your previous comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Is the engine a Euro 6? Bear in mind that for many low emission zones it is £100 if over 3500kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chudders1 Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Yes been aware of LEZ areas for some time and now checked all the updates. None will affect me regardless of of the Euro engine class. We live down yer in cornwall, takes me all my nerve to go to England, over the Tamar Bridge that is. Thanks for your comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 14 hours ago, chudders1 said: ...As a slight off topic I have heard now from several fairly reliable sources that the requirement for C1 entitlement may be ammended by the government. so that a B car licence will entitle driving up to 4250 Kg or possibly even 7500 Kg.s. Decision alleged to be in March. If this is enacted then the need for C1 renewal will not be needed. Watch this space as they say. We that are over 70 will just need to renew a standard car licence every 3 years with no medical etc. assuming no other medical complications... In my previous posting I mentioned the possibility of UK holders of a "B" driving-licence entitlement being permitted to drive vehicles with a GVW exceeding 3500kg. There's plenty about this in-line - this August 2022 article is one example https://www.export.org.uk/news/613314/Government-launches-consultation-on-easing-licensing-process-to-solve-HGV-driver-shortages.htm#:~:text=Current restrictions,driving licences granted before 1997. (Not strictly relevant, but might impact on anyone thinking of moving to France.) https://trans.info/en/uk-driving-license-grandfather-rights-not-transferred-in-france-drivers-report-308844 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Your post started a thought process which is always useful to many people. It provides information and help for those who are or might be thinking about upgrading their own vans, I know I learnt from it so as said don't beat yourself up and keep the posts coming, all knowledge is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chudders1 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Thanks all for the kind comments. Must have missed your link in the past Derek Ta, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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