TimboG Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 I left the word gas out of my previous post. I have heard that a lot of filling stations are phasing out autogas by 2024. Does anyone know what is happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 As replied to your previous post, plus to answer your further question, I really don't know what will happen. It makes you think about the future of petrol/diesel into the future as well! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 TimboG There's a good deal of on-line discussion about this (revealed by a GOOGLE-search on autogas pumps phased out by 2024) Within the UK, the number of Autogas pumps has reduced significantly over the last few years and some areas have now become Autogas 'deserts'. The writing was really on the wall in April 2022 and many articles mentioned a 2024 deadline (example here) https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/news-articles/uk-to-lose-half-its-lpg-filling-stations-by-2024-replaced-by-electric-charging-points/#:~:text=Get a quote-,Major retailer to phase out LPG stations by,replaced by EV charging points&text=Owners of Autogas (LPG) converted,its LPG pumps by 2024. Where leisure-vehicles are concerned, the most affected by a drastic reduction in the number of UK Autogas pumps will be motorhome models that have been built as standard with an external LPG tank and no allowance for storage of gas canisters: also older petrol-engined high-fuel-consumption USA RVs that have been converted to run on LPG. (I've 'migrated' your other posting that missed out the word "gas".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 For those with the dilemma of underslung tank and no onboard gas storage locker, it might be a possibility to transfer gas from a standard cylinder or 2, utilising the correct hi pressure hose and connectors of course! And almost needless to say, must be carried out by a competent bod with min. of a 1st Hons in Physics (in before anyone gets upset at the suggestion!). Having stated that, I've known of a number of lesser qualified people refill such as 4 or 5 Camping Gaz bottles from a 13kg Calor etc. for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 this really boils my blood, there are loads about! in a word no it's not gonna be phased out just like diesel and petrol in 2030 it's impossible! Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 14 hours ago, simians said: For those with the dilemma of underslung tank and no onboard gas storage locker, it might be a possibility to transfer gas from a standard cylinder or 2, utilising the correct hi pressure hose and connectors of course! And almost needless to say, must be carried out by a competent bod with min. of a 1st Hons in Physics (in before anyone gets upset at the suggestion!). Having stated that, I've known of a number of lesser qualified people refill such as 4 or 5 Camping Gaz bottles from a 13kg Calor etc. for obvious reasons. The time-honoured method for filling small LPG containers from large canisters exploits gravity (ie. a big bottle with plenty of gas in it is perched above a small empty one and gas transfers slowly from big to small via a connecting hose) but that's unlikely to be a viable ploy where a motorhome's fixed LPG tank is concerned. 'Emergency' hose kits are also marketed (eg. "Extend-A-Stay"), but these just allow gas vapour to move from an external gas-bottle into a fixed tank. Realistically, liquid LPG would need to be 'pressure transferred' from the external bottle into the fixed tank and electric or manual pumps are available for that purpose. This longish YouTube video provides a reasonably balanced view about the 2024 'issue' (with lots of statistics for numbers-geeks). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD27AOQnzjU (FWIW, I understand that in France the use of the acronym "GPL" (gaz de pétrole liquéfié) for Autogas has been dropped and replaced by "LPG".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 The "time honoured" transfer of large to small is of course exemplified in my post by the example given, of 13kg Calor to 2.75kg Camping Gaz. Can't really define why a large cylinder couldn't be filled, at least partially by small capacity cylinders, probably have to wait a fair time. But that combination isn't something I'e personally attempted..... or want to. A chance for someone (preferably a non smoker) to carry out a test run and give those owners of potentially gas capacity challenged vehicles a hope.😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 In the link I provided in my last posting, the number of 'verified' service stations offering LPG was quoted as around-1900 in 2018, 610 in 2021and 507 nowadays. And this website https://www.glpautogas.info/en/lpg-propane-stations-united-kingdom.html#:~:text=In the UK there are,short of the country's needs. states "In the UK there are currently 368 filling stations offering LPG for sale to the public, a widespread network but a little short of the country's needs". Although the number of 'forecourt' LPG providers may have reduced substantially over the last 5 years, as the GAS-It website points out, as well as branded garage (or supermarket) LPG providers "there are many LPG and Autogas filling stations based in industrial estates, gas suppliers yards, private small garages, farmers yards, small country shops and many other locations just off the main roads..." When poor Autogas availability in the UK was complained about on this forum a few years ago, I remember saying that this was not the case where I live as there were 5 Autogas outlets (3 'forecourt', 1 small garage , 1 Countrywide DIY-filling) within 10 miles of my home and 3 of those outlets were within 2 miles. I've just checked - using the https://www.autogas.app/ website - and 4 of those outlets have stopped offering Autogas. Regarding refilling Campingaz bottles, there was a fair amount of lively forum discussion about this way back when and this long 2011/2012 thread is an example https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/23294-gas-cylinder-refilling/ One of the people who advised on what was involved is still a regular forum participant and should be able to say roughly how long it takes to 'gravity fill' a 2.7kg-capacity Campingaz 907 canister. As I said above, if Autogas became extremely difficult to obtain in the UK in the near future (which is most unlikely to happen) it would be owners of motorhomes specifically designed to carry LPG in an external 'fixed' tank that would be hardest hit. Although refilling gas bottles (even user-refillable bottles) can be done via the gravity ploy, that method cannot be used for fixed tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandJP Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I have a gas supplier in Devizes that I now use when i need to fill up in uk so I would suggest anyone local to Devizes (Catley's) go there, always very helpful and of course very cheap when compared to normal gas bottles. I now have diesel heating so have far less need for too much gas and when on a site I use an electric heater of course. When touring in France recently I just filled at a motorway station, perhaps I was lucky to pick one that was operating ok as I know there have been a few stopping gas over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 A French website advises With 1,500 stations, LPG is distributed throughout France, in cities, in the countryside and on motorway networks: 1 station out of 7 distributes LPG. The distance between two stations does not exceed 60 km, and to the LPG stations is also added the network of petrol stations. In 2021 motorhomes were prohibited from filling up with Autogas at Total service-stations. My understanding is that only Total introduced that ban and (as far as I'm aware) it is still in force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydeco Joe Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 So far not had any problems getting LPG always fill when we need it so any part of the country we are in has had gas, well did last year. In Europe this winter no change, lots of normal petrol stations with gas pumps many now at same pump as petrol and diesel making it even easier than ever to fill our underslung tank cheaper as well. Maybe that's what will happen over here as lots of people still use LPG. Think people are reading far to much into one mans attitude on YouTube. Fill up when we are close to a third full and so far zero problems. Does it matter if your local one stops selling it as its a motorhome that we use all over the country as that's what motorhomes are for as far as we are concerned . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 'Continental experience', is exchange bottles eg as found on many French supermarket forecourts, cant recall much (if any) in the way of domestic refillables evidenced on my travels, not that I've actively searched, so could be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just filled up with GPL at Super U St Junien Haute Vienne. Their. Gpl pump now has its own card machine so you can get gas 24/7 instead of just when the cashiers are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, weldted said: Just filled up with GPL at Super U St Junien Haute Vienne. Their. Gpl pump now has its own card machine so you can get gas 24/7 instead of just when the cashiers are there. Pay by card only is becoming more the norm, even the big s/markets Carrefour and E. Leclerc are dispensing with the pay at kiosk facility at many outlets. Standalone fuel stations likewise. As per the UK in these straightened times they have also been plagued by the driveaway scrotes, so if paying by cash it's pay first then tank up. I quite like cash payment, and I usually avail myself of the toilet services on the stop. Additionally it's a chance to practise a bit of Francais with the cashier, and have a bit of comedy moment looking at the merchandise prices, there's rarely a mad rush of customers as there inevitably is to be found here in the SE UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickB Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Travelled from Santander to the Algarve a month ago. Filled fixed cylinders just outside Bilbao. I noted GPL service stations en route and there were dozens, and also some local to Lagos where we are parked. Last year travelled through France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany and saw GPL available everywhere. Definitely no problem with filling on the Continent. Previously touring Scotland and N England I had no difficulty refilling. The 3 apps, AutogasApp, myLPG. EU and FillLPG show many sites in the UK and Continent so never too far from a pump. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Of course notwithstanding extensive Europe wide availability of self refillable services doesn't mean that this situation wouldn't or couldn't change at anytime. It's reckoned by some that LPG services were intended specifically for refuelling gas powered vehicles and not for domestic purposes, vested interests may well wish to exploit this anomaly to their advantage. More money to be made flogging their own exchange cylinders presumably. There are recent reports sourced from here and there that people in Spain are being refused the refilling of onboard habitation LPG tanks/cylinders recently. Whether this is merely mierda de toro I'm not certain but I wouldn't be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 hours ago, simians said: It's reckoned by some that LPG services were intended specifically for refuelling gas powered vehicles and not for domestic purposes, vested interests may well wish to exploit this anomaly to their advantage. More money to be made flogging their own exchange cylinders presumably... In the UK the word "Autogas" is normally applied to the gas delivered to vehicles and "Autogas" clearly indicates the purpose of that gas. This was not true in France that just called the gas GPL, but it's nevertheless the case that the pumps on French service-station forecourts were installed with gas-fuelled vehicles in mind. This 2021 "Le Monde du Camping-Car article https://www.lemondeducampingcar.fr/courrier/temoignages-les-camping-cars-interdits-de-plein-de-gpl-chez-total/198617 included conversations with Total, with the company saying that their 'ban' was for safety reasons and did not target motorhomes specifically. The prohibition was aimed at the refilling of gas reservoirs that did not supply a vehicle's motor with fuel. If I remember correctly, there was lobbying for this prohibition to become French law, but that never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Well there you go more or less as I suspected. I could never be certain due to individual service stations making their own decision whether to permit domestic refills or not. Some allow underslung tank refills, others not yet others don't permit refills of internally situated cylinders even if fitted with correct adaptors and specifically marketed for that purpose I daresay insurance companies may have influence over a proprietors decision, based on what they the ins. co. consider good service station practise. Its worth mentioning that it probably didn't escape the notice of anyone from the safety interest aspect, that some 'regassers' were, and possibly filling or at least attempt to fill exchange bottles fitted with adaptors...... possibly of dodgy origin, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Albertslad said: I really don’t see us using the gas option on the Truma Combi. Do I go “all-electric” ? Prepare for incoming I expect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Never had a problem refilling in Uk.last time earlier this year, just checked website for a local filling station. in France and Spain refilling points everywhere. I wax off grid and using heating extensively so had to refill twice, once Spain and once France, the availability was easy. usually we spend most of our time on continent where we refill. Have only been refilling in Uk since covid struck but now back to Europe so I do not anticipate any problems for years. yes, new petrol/diesels banned from 2030 but cars sold then will still be around into the 2040’s so I don’t anticipate any problems. Indeed I plan on buying a new diesel car in 2030 cos I reckon it will increase in value. By 2050 I probably, given my age, wont have to worry about it. petrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickB Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 I don't think that AutogasApp will be withdrawn "suddenly" anywhere, as the ensuing chaos would probably result in riots in France and elsewhere. Despite the removal of new petrol and diesel cars the fuel will be available for years, and LPG is significantly greener so that will continue as well. Despite having an electric car I don't think this will be the long term answer. By the time the UK and other countries have an adequate infrastructure, we will probably be onto hydrogen power. Toyota, BMW and VW have decided not to go all electric and are actively working on hydrogen power, so we may well br filling with that for propulsion and cooking. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Even if there were to be a complete demise of refill points then the default for some could be to buy local exchange bottles. I've never had any form of refillable system, relying solely on the local domestic exchange system in Spain, Portugal, in Morocco it's possible to get Spanish and various others refilled. I've even manage to get 13kg Calors refilled. On leaving Spain heading for the UK I always exchange 2x13kg Repsols just before the French border, one bottle to get to the UK, one bottle to get back and a 907 as emergency backup. Last year I fitted a diesel heater this of course greatly reduces gas demand. With a bit of individual planning I reckon most bods could find a work around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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