MOT Advisories

[laimeduck]

 

My Benimar, Ducato base vehicle, is approaching 20 years old, and has just passed it's MOT with a couple of advisories: (as the attached photo).

I have not been able to look at the areas as the ground is just too sodden here and I have to squirm underneath on my back!

Any suggestions as to how to DIY deal with the corrosion?
(Bear in mind at mid 70's I am no longer a spring chicken or very supple!).

Wire brush, rub down, clean up, Jenolite and underseal maybe?

 

Thanks Jeremy

 

[malc d]

I have a Ducato of similar age and after its' MoT a couple of weeks ago I had a similar advisory about

" light rusting on the offside inner wing ".

From a quick look at it, it does seem quite " light " ( fortunately ) - just a bit awkward to get at.

A bit of ' net ' browsing came up with "  HG Rust Remover " - which looks like a possible suitable treatment - just a rub down with wet and dry to remove any loose rust - then paint on the HG Remover.

Not tried it yet - and due to other commitments not likely to do so for a while - but you may like to check it out.

Good luck, whatever you use.

[simians]

 'Corroded not significantly affecting the structural rigidity' suggests to me that steel is missing, certainly not light rusting.

 Permanent repair of the structural area requires the rusted steel to be cut out and new steel welded in. You could get this done professionally and finish the painting/undersealing yourself. There are no short cuts, others may disagree!

A semi permanent fix would be to prevent the rusting getting worse, wire brushing and applying an antirust  solution would keep the rust at bay for maybe a couple or so winters, and get past the MoT. These rust inhibitors and converters nearly all work on the principle  of changing rust to inert magnetite. The rust turns purple and black, the black is the deeply pitted rust, I've never seen a rust convertor penetrate deep rust pitting, chip a scab off and rust invariably lurks below, the rust convertor forms a skin keeping air oxygen away......for a limited time.  The only way to prevent the rust returning is to grind back to bright steel. Then to finish with a brush applied paint system. Hammerite is often quoted but chips very easily in hostile under vehicle situations.

A really useful power tool for rust removal, allowing access to near inaccessible crevices is a finger file. £50 gets a 240V Silverline well made and very benign and controllable, as in safe compared to say using an angle grinding.

[John52]

I have often seen rust growing under paint, but never under oil because it self heals.

And the surface doesn't need to be very clean when you apply it.

Some people use old engine oil - I don't because it stinks and stains, and engine oil is a bit thin.

Just brush the loose muck off, get a bottle of cheap gear oil and paint it on the rusty steel.  That will slow the rust down a lot.

The inevitable drips and spills of clean oil will easily wash out with modern detergents.  Its the  muck in engine oil, not the oil itself, that sticks and stains.

[simians]

1 hour ago, malc d said:

 

A bit of ' net ' browsing came up with "  HG Rust Remover " - which looks like a possible suitable treatment - just a rub down with wet and dry to remove any loose rust - then paint on the HG Remover.

 

New one to me, but unless I'm mistaken this is a Rust Remover 'Dip' that is you have to immerse the rusty item in the solution. Not really suitable for insitu parts and under vehicle situations and will just wash off in application.

Good product I've found is Kurust, brushed on it forms a paintable coating. But its not magic. Jenolite was once synomanous with rust removal but appears to have lost its potency. I think H and S has emasculated the phosphoric acid content in it.

[malc d]

6 minutes ago, simians said:

New one to me, but unless I'm mistaken this is a Rust Remover 'Dip' that is you have to immerse the rusty item in the solution. Not really suitable for insitu parts and under vehicle situations and will just wash off in application.

Good product I've found is Kurust, brushed on it forms a paintable coating. But its not magic. Jenolite was once synomanous with rust removal but appears to have lost its potency. I think H and S has emasculated the phosphoric acid content in it.

According to the HG product instructions, it can be used on smaller items by immersing them in a diluted solution, or, for larger items, apply UNDILUTED, with a brush.

[laimeduck]

Jenolite appears to contain 24% Phosphoric acid (aka orthophosphoric acid) whereas HG Rust Remover contains between 50 and 75% Phosphoric acid. 

And Jenolite seems to be 2 x the price of HG Rust remover.

Seems a no brainer to me....?

(As already stated)  ..... On a 20 year old vehicle, (which is soon going to become a diesel guzzling pariah), it's going to be a DIY job to keep her going for as long as possible ... we wont be buying another motorhome, so it's going to be whoever dies first! Tee Hee!

Jeremy

[simians]

So long as the structural rigidity is no worse at the next MoT and it passes. If it fails and was pretty near worthless anyway then fair enough. But if worth a few quid, then a half decent repair now may well be worthwhile. But meh.

[Hans]

The best underbody Coating ever existed was DINITROl on clean substrates. So too late for you.? I have a rusty fuel tank on my range rover ?  Now it is made in PE.

[lancepar]

Too late if the tin worm has set in but........

While i'm still able, prior to our old MoHo's MOT I crawl underneath with a rattle can of white stone chip and spray any outbreaks of rust. 

Nasty job but someone has to do it.👌

[Hans]

The corrosion rate is about 25 years. Than it gets too thin on structural MATERIAL. And NEED TO BE SCRAPPED.

[Hans]

Being in the Past a ships engineer on Shell oil  and LNg tankers driving in sea water i now what Rust is.

 

[laimeduck]

Obviously no one told my 1986 Citroen 2CV that she only had 25 years to live. She's still going strong ... no advisories.

[John52]

I suppose ships or rigs that are constantly in sea water rust at a fairly constant rate and you can estimate their lifespan

Unlike the bodyshell of a vehicle.

I can remember seeing 2 year old cars with their front wings perforated by rust.

Nowadays my 15 year old X2/50 van doesn't have a speck of rust visible on the bodyshell

Even where self tappers pierced the wet floor as the steel is galvanised.

[Globebuster1]

MOT advisories can be very subjective - it may not be as bad as it sounds once you've inspected it.

It's not surprising to find an advisory one year to not even be mentioned the following, even if no remedial work has been undertaken.

At least you're now aware and can act accordingly.

Krust is good, but Owatrol is better and if you can get back to bare metal around the area even more so.

Follow up with a good coat of stone chip.

Smearing a load of gear oil over it is clearly just a bodge job.

Perhaps a good local body shop will give you some pointers?

[Hans]

6 hours ago, laimeduck said:

 

My Benimar, Ducato base vehicle, is approaching 20 years old, and has just passed it's MOT with a couple of advisories: (as the attached photo).

I have not been able to look at the areas as the ground is just too sodden here and I have to squirm underneath on my back!

Any suggestions as to how to DIY deal with the corrosion?
(Bear in mind at mid 70's I am no longer a spring chicken or very supple!).

Wire brush, rub down, clean up, Jenolite and underseal maybe?

 

Thanks Jeremy

 

 

[Hans]

What means the pass report and codes? Of your mot?

[simians]

3 hours ago, John52 said:

 

Nowadays my 15 year old X2/50 van doesn't have a speck of rust visible on the bodyshell

Even where self tappers pierced the wet floor as the steel is galvanised.

I've had brand new Mercedes cars that have had the beginnings of body rust evident within 2 or 3 years, and seen peugeot cars remaning rustfree after more than ten years. Full galvanisation being the difference.

My Mercedes van along with Sprinters are notorious for rusting, the sales brochures boasting of waist high phospheric dip bath blah blah. I suppose the thinking, is that a planned lifespan of 5 years is all that's required by new van commercial buyers, with no consideration given to new motorhome/camper or used van PVC buyer hoping for a few more unscathed years. The Sevel vans and Renaults of today are a much better bet than the Mercs. as regards resisting the ravages of rust.

[thebishbus]

Clean down well, remove any loose flaking material, cover well with " Por 15 " paint. Can be over painted if  required.

                        Brian B.

[John52]

18 hours ago, John52 said:

Some people use old engine oil - I don't because it stinks and stains, and engine oil is a bit thin.

Should have said I do use old engine oil for painting sheds and fences - seems to work as well as anything else I have used.  Thin it down with creocote (can't get creosote now), paraffin, or turps if necessary

[John52]

11 hours ago, simians said:

I've had brand new Mercedes cars that have had the beginnings of body rust evident within 2 or 3 years, and seen peugeot cars remaning rustfree after more than ten years. Full galvanisation being the difference.

My Mercedes van along with Sprinters are notorious for rusting, the sales brochures boasting of waist high phospheric dip bath blah blah. I suppose the thinking, is that a planned lifespan of 5 years is all that's required by new van commercial buyers, with no consideration given to new motorhome/camper or used van PVC buyer hoping for a few more unscathed years. The Sevel vans and Renaults of today are a much better bet than the Mercs. as regards resisting the ravages of rust.

Back in the 80's Fiat had a terrible reputation for rust.

I heard a story (can't confirm it) that the Directors of Mercedes Benz had a meeting and decided their products were over engineered, and they could concentrate more on volume and profit.  Wheras Fiat decided they had to do better and went for full dip galvanising. Whatever the truth of the story the products have gone that way round with Fiats outlasting Mercs - which was unthinkable back then!

I enquired about a new Sprinter van before I bought my Citroen Relay.  But the Sprinter was much more expensive because MB wouldn't give discount to private one-vehicle buyers like Citroen dealers did.  MB were still expecting people to pay £thousands more for the MB brand, even though they were trashing it by producing rust buckets

Same with the VW Crafter

[John52]

When I got my first car (Ford Anglia) I was gullible enough to believe the hype about anti rust products at the time.  Spent weeks under it cleaning everything and applying the wonder products like (Holts Zinc Plate).  Horrible job and complete waste of time and money.

So its left me cynical about the current wonder rust treatments being mentioned even though I have never tried them.

Whatever, If I was in my mid 70's with a 20 year old van I certainly wouldn't be laying under it trying to clean away all the rust and apply them.

From past experience a quick wire brush round and brush on a bit of gear oil, or spray can grease, would work better. 

I would aim to spend what time I had got left doing something more enjoyable than risking it by squeezing under an old van filling my lungs with muck & chemicals.

[laimeduck]

1 hour ago, John52 said:

 

Whatever, If I was in my mid 70's with a 20 year old van I certainly wouldn't be laying under it trying to clean away all the rust and apply them.

From past experience a quick wire brush round and brush on a bit of gear oil, or spray can grease, would work better. 

I would aim to spend what time I had got left doing something more enjoyable than risking it by squeezing under an old van filling my lungs with muck & chemicals.

Thanks John ...... Exactly - but I'll have a look and do what I can in the easiest way possible so she gets a few more MOT's ....and I'll wear a mask! If the tester sees action has been taken then maybe the advisory will become history?

[simians]

3 hours ago, John52 said:

I would aim to spend what time I had got left doing something more enjoyable than risking it by squeezing under an old van filling my lungs with muck & chemicals.

Very much a personal thing.

Bearing in mind I had a desk bound work life. I've taken time to learn and apply a few more practical things.

The main incentive being, that for many years after being up to 6 months overseas I invariably on return to the UK I had a month or so in which the weather was no incentive to doing what I actually preferred. Nowadays the 90 days "you know what" has done me no favours. Hence my presence on 1 or 2 forums for  a spell.  Being a tri national I have hopes this year of extending my 90 days to < 183 days.

The increased difficulty in getting Recovery/Breakdown Insurance also makes it an imperative to ensure that the van is also mechanically maintained to a high standard. I carry out all the mechanical work myself, simple man simple vehicle, on the road fixable (within reason) is why I hang on to a pre electronic era van.

Anyway, that being the case in this instance why I would get out the MIG welder, cut out the rust cancer and make as certain as I could to ensure an MoT pass next time, but that's just me.

[John52]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:13 AM, simians said:

 

Anyway, that being the case in this instance why I would get out the MIG welder, cut out the rust cancer and make as certain as I could to ensure an MoT pass next time, but that's just me.

I found welding such thin, corroded, and corrugated metal extremely difficult and unreliable.  I wouldn't even trust my own welding.  So I fixed a plate over a rusted wheelarch using lots of little bolts.

I explained to the MOT tester why I would rather trust bolts than welds. Sorry said he, law says its within 30cm of a stress point (shock absorber mounting) it has to be welded.....But if its covered up I don't have to remove the cover to check it.... 😉

So I took it back with a cover over the wheelarch and it passed. 😀