Vehicle insurance.

[Brian Kirby]

Although it concerns car insurance, the same must equally be true for motorhome insurance, so be warned!  🙂 

I was a bit flabbergasted yesterday when getting on-line insurance quotes for a new car we've decided to buy in lieu of our 10 year old Seat Mii.  No names, no pack drill, but they are all nationally well known names.!

I got quotes from six of Which's published best providers.  All were for the same age, make and model of car, the same two (named) drivers, the same annual mileage, with the same voluntary excess, all with protected NCD, all annual payments, and all to include continental use.

The prices quoted were : 

£359.18

£442.53

£473.42

£566.66

£708.96

£801.00

Oddly, the cheapest also appeared to have the most favourably comprehensive offer.  What on earth do they base their premiums on?  Can't be any kind of logic, can it?  So, if buying motorhome insurance, despite the tedium of trying to unpick the fine print to get reasonably comparable cover, it would definitely pay to shop around!  

[colin]

It seems to depend on how much the underwriter is in need of custom on the day.

This was driven home to me in a recent conversation with a broker, following on from renewing motorhome insurance I asked about insurance on our thatched home, the broker offered to present details to the underwriter as "Some days they will insure thatch, other days they don't" 

p.s. For many years I could only get a 'competitive' quote for one of my cars from RAC, last few years other firms now give cheaper quotes than RAC.

[GandJP]

A few of years ago I had some issues with a well known MH insurer so after some 'shopping around' I settled on the NFU, infact I have everything with them now. 

[laimeduck]

Brian ...my wife worked as an independent  insurance broker for over 30 years. She always phones the insurer and talks broking with them and the prices then generally tumble. None of our premiums have increased substantially over the past 5 - 10 years.

They get away with what they can charge.

Think of a figure, double it, then add a "0" ...!

Jeremy

[John52]

1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said:

What on earth do they base their premiums on?  

Some of the things might surprise you

The biggest risk factor is the driver .. age and past convictions gives an incomplete picture of the driver so some companies try to look further

For example, if you have left it till the day before it expires some will take that to mean you are the sort of person who takes risks and quote more.

Variations can be even greater when your camper van is a light goods vehicle.  Some insurance companies don't seem to accept the concept of a van being used only for social domestic and pleasure, and assume they are all being used comercially - higher risk and premium.

[John52]

Personally I would like to ban comprehensive car insurance, because if people had the thought of paying for the damage hanging over them it might make them drive more carefully.

But when I tried to get third party only insurance I found one company refused because they said the vehicle was too valuble for third party only. 

Another told me they quote more for third party than they do for comprehensive bcause they assume you are the sort who takes risks,

[Geeco]

Car insurance is no different to house insurance and as Colin said it depends on the underwriters position that day. So my solution is to obtain quotes online from four reputable insurance companies (sounds like an oxymoron - reputable & insurance!) every renewal time. Often the current insurer is not competitive for the new period so I change to the company with the most competitive quote. I learnt along time ago that there are no friends in business. Cheers,

[John52]

2 hours ago, Geeco said:

Car insurance is no different to house insurance and as Colin said it depends on the underwriters position that day. So my solution is to obtain quotes online from four reputable insurance companies (sounds like an oxymoron - reputable & insurance!) every renewal time. Often the current insurer is not competitive for the new period so I change to the company with the most competitive quote. I learnt along time ago that there are no friends in business. Cheers,

I used to change bacwards and forwards between Liverpool Victoria and Direct Line every year, because they gave lower quotes to new customers.

But, belatedly, the Regulator has finally stopped them doing that now - they can no longer penalise you for loyalty.  So there is no point in switching each year.

Not found a lower quote elsewhere because I am restricted to the Insurance Companies who realise that not all 'Goods Vehicles' carry goods.  So other companies charge far more.

I always go for the legal minimum insurance at the cheapest quotes, but with over 50 years driving and never having made a claim in my life they have still done alright out of me.

[Brian Kirby]

8 hours ago, John52 said:

.................................Not found a lower quote elsewhere because I am restricted to the Insurance Companies who realise that not all 'Goods Vehicles' carry goods.  So other companies charge far more...............................

Not wishing to go off on a huge OT tangent, John, but why is your camper classified as a goods vehicle?  If it has the interior modifications necessary for DVLA to re-registered it as a "Motor Caravan" it would move to Class M1 (i.e. a private car), so a wider range of insurers would be available, and you could legally drive at it over 60MPH into the bargain! 🙂

[John52]

12 hours ago, Brian Kirby said:

Not wishing to go off on a huge OT tangent, John, but why is your camper classified as a goods vehicle?  If it has the interior modifications necessary for DVLA to re-registered it as a "Motor Caravan" it would move to Class M1 (i.e. a private car), so a wider range of insurers would be available, and you could legally drive at it over 60MPH into the bargain! 🙂

This years insurance with LV is only £234 - its just a matter of using an insurer with the sense to think outside the box and realise not all 'Goods Vehicles' carry goods.  Better for me - and better for them as I have given them 52 annual premiums and never made any claim.  Only trouble I have given them is switching backwards and forwards between insurance companies every year when they gave cheaper prices to new customers.  But thats not my fault - I would have remained loyal to them if they hadn't penalised customers for loyalty.

Worst thing about it being called a 'goods vehicle' is being restricted to 50 instead of 60 on single carriageways.  Personally this doesn't bother me much as I am never in a hurry and 50 is safer and more economical than 60.  I am sorry for the mile of frustrated drivers behind me but thats not my fault - I didn't make or enforce this stupid law.  Why is the same vehicle and driver given a different speed limit depnding on whether its carrying 'goods' or 'motor caravan' stuff in the back?  Makes no sense to me.

I thought about trying to get the DVLA to call it a motor caravan (which it is) instead of a goods vehicle (which it isn't) Since if they called the vehicle what it is it would be restricted to 60 instead of 50.  But I doubt if it would meet their description.  And I have read about interminable red tape and delays - during which time they are holding the V5C  which would prevent me going abroad.

My experience with the DVLA is that if you want something very common and straightforward like renewing your road tax it isn't too bad - although even that takes them 5 working days just to update it on their website!

But God help you if you want anything out of the ordinary from the DVLA - even just changing the seating capacity from 3 to 2 when you swap the double passenger seat for a single one.

[John52]

I should add I am not blaming the civil servants at places like the DVLA.  My understanding is they have to work with a hopless jumble of different computer systems that won't talk to each other.

Which system they are lumbered with depending on which company is bribing Members of Parliament to promote it.   Why else would Government suppliers hire MPs?

[John52]

as an afterthought if I did manage to get it called a 'Motorcaravan' it would be a self build one off special - not a common as muck Ducato maxi van. 

Or even a recognised make of motorcaravan.

So I don't suppose that would make insurance easier to find or cheaper than the current £234 per year

[Brian Kirby]

It was just a thought, John!  🙂  I must admit that they themselves admit the process would take time.

[simians]

I hope no one's under the illusion that insurance comps. were any better in the good old days, as if! My father  would prattle on about Fire and Auto Marine with which (thought!) he had a car insurance policy in the mid 1960s. Fire and Auto Marine left hundreds of thousands of customers unwittingly driving around for months in their horseless carriages without insurance cover. F & A  M was headed by an amazing  master conman, one Emil Savundra. Makes for a really interesting 5 minute Wiki read.

In New Zealand insurance was a choice between so called State Insurance ie public owned and private companies such as Commercial Union etc. After UK, Moroccan and Spanish insurance experiences I didn't need much convincing that State was the way to go. Nowadays vehicle insurance isn't compulsory in NZ, all injury costs are carried by the government on a no fault basis, this was to do away with costly time consuming litigation and no doubt cut out all the fraudulent crap. But vehicle and property damage are your own responsibility. Most drivers consider it sensible to have at least 3rd party for this aspect of cover.

[John52]

On 4/24/2023 at 5:28 PM, Brian Kirby said:

It was just a thought, John!  🙂  I must admit that they themselves admit the process would take time.

🙂I should have said earlier what I am paying for insurance.   Then you would have known its not worth trying to change the vehicle category just to try for a lower premium.

There could be an advantage to having it classed as a 'Light Goods Vehicle' in places like the Yorkshire coast seafronts where they have signs saying 'No Motor Caravans 11pm-7am'  But I have not taken advantage of that because such places tend to be noisy at night.  (Presumably the motor caravanners got the blame for that, but now the motor caravanners have gone the rowdies, the litter, and the dog poo is still there)  So I prefer to find a quiet residential street - just for sleeping - I arrive late and leave early leaving no trace so they probably never know I have been there.

Some places have put up signs saying 'no camper vans' but, as far as I know these have no more legal backing than 'no overnight parking' - because there is no legal definition of 'camper van' or 'overnight parking'  

[Geeco]

I was once told by a parking ranger that if I was over the driving limit due to one extra glass of wine  I would have to stay in the no overnight parking area with no penalty. I have never tested it but sounds logical. Cheers,

[gassygassy]

Yesterday I started looking for quotes for a new motorhome I propose to buy in June. I currently pay about £240 for my 2009 camper. They won't quote for anything further away than 30 days so I gave 30 May as the start date. The new mh is £75k and from a previous conversation with my current insurer I learned that it would have to have a tracker fitted. Fitted trackers seem to cost from £350 to whatever you want to pay, plus £150 a year 'annual subscription'.My current broker said north of £600 for the insurance and it would need a tracker as well. This was beginning to put me off the idea of a new mh, but I want an automatic and not a robotised manual which so far as I can tell means getting a brand new one. I have found one that is due to be built at the factory in May to be delivered to me in June.

The quotes I got varied from "We cannot quote you" down through various stages, mostly around the £600 - £700 mark, down to £490, and the nice chap at the other end of the phone said this £490 company will accept a £99 tracker with a £45p.a. annual subscription. So that is what I will be going for. He also asked politely if I wanted all the usual extras - breakdown, legal and so on which I don't. I said it's nice of you to ask, all the others I have quotes from include those in their quotes. He said that it is now not allowed for insurers to include "presumptive extras" in their quotes. I have had long-ish winded arguments with other insurers over the years trying to persuade them that I don't want legal, breakdown and so on. I have carefully studied the insurance I get with my £13-a-month bank account and it covers all that stuff.  Mostly I have it because it covers world wide cruising, skiing, and all the other normal activities we get up to. Even golf. Whatever that is.

Anyway I was very impressed with this broker with his decent premium, allowing a cheap tracker with cheap annual subscription and not even starting to try to sell me all the rubbish I don't want. He even said there are a few caveats with this insurance company such as the windscreen cover is limited to £600. I said it's only a Fiat Ducato, not a bus so it won't cost that much.

[John52]

14 minutes ago, gassygassy said:

Yesterday I started looking for quotes for a new motorhome I propose to buy in June. I currently pay about £240 for my 2009 camper. They won't quote for anything further away than 30 days so I gave 30 May as the start date. The new mh is £75k and from a previous conversation with my current insurer I learned that it would have to have a tracker fitted. Fitted trackers seem to cost from £350 to whatever you want to pay, plus £150 a year 'annual subscription'.My current broker said north of £600 for the insurance and it would need a tracker as well. This was beginning to put me off the idea of a new mh, but I want an automatic and not a robotised manual which so far as I can tell means getting a brand new one. I have found one that is due to be built at the factory in May to be delivered to me in June.

The quotes I got varied from "We cannot quote you" down through various stages, mostly around the £600 - £700 mark, down to £490, and the nice chap at the other end of the phone said this £490 company will accept a £99 tracker with a £45p.a. annual subscription. So that is what I will be going for. He also asked politely if I wanted all the usual extras - breakdown, legal and so on which I don't. I said it's nice of you to ask, all the others I have quotes from include those in their quotes. He said that it is now not allowed for insurers to include "presumptive extras" in their quotes. I have had long-ish winded arguments with other insurers over the years trying to persuade them that I don't want legal, breakdown and so on. I have carefully studied the insurance I get with my £13-a-month bank account and it covers all that stuff.  Mostly I have it because it covers world wide cruising, skiing, and all the other normal activities we get up to. Even golf. Whatever that is.

Anyway I was very impressed with this broker with his decent premium, allowing a cheap tracker with cheap annual subscription and not even starting to try to sell me all the rubbish I don't want. He even said there are a few caveats with this insurance company such as the windscreen cover is limited to £600. I said it's only a Fiat Ducato, not a bus so it won't cost that much.

Perhaps another advantage of it being an common ordinary van is I don't have to speak to anyone - I just put in my vehicle registration and find it on their website.  So its all done online, making it quick and easy to get a range of quotes.  When I did speak to them nobody has ever said they won't insure me at all - just one who said they won't insure me for third party only, but they will insure me comprehensive.  Where I have found one online who would quote me third party only is was more than I am paying for comprehensive.  As I recall one of the questions was 'does it have a tracker' and I clicked No - but I still got a decent quote.

[gassygassy]

It has been the case for many many years that comprehensive is cheaper than TPFT. It has also been the case for a long time that car body repairers rip off the insurance companies with their 'free courtesy car' scheme where they keep the repair car for unnecessarily long times so they can charge the insurance company for longer car hire. Also, they repair a wing for example, and charge the insurance company to supply and fit a new wing. At least that was the case when I had a repair done under someone else's insurance.

I did have an interesting insurance case many years ago. I was behind two other cars and an HGV, stopped on a minor road on a detour route. In front of the two other cars was an HGV which had stopped to talk to another HGV coming the other way. Us three cars had seen these HGVs from some way away when a boy racer came racing up and rammed into the back of my car, spun round, and impaled itself on the facing HGV. Fortunately I got his insurance. I took my car to several repairers who all dismissed it as being a write off. In desperation I took it to the main dealer, a VW dealer and said it's worth £6k,  the other repairers have said it costs £6800 to fix, can you fix it for an amount that the insurers would pay? They looked at it and called the insurer who agreed to a repair cost of £5800. It was repaired beautifully and I was very impressed indeed with the colour match - it was red, which fades with age. It wasn't very old and needed the rear roof and bodywork matching with the main body.

[davidmac]

Hi , I had the renewal notice for my car insurance arrive last week from LV, up from £282 to £387. I got a quote from a company that does  not appear on comparison sites £632, then went to a comparison site,  offers from £384 to £1320. Decided to talk to LV to see if they would lower the quote, told the guy I had just passed my medical for my C1 renewal so I was fit and healthy, a year ago passed a driving test to get an A motorcycle licence, so had good driving skills .'Thats interesting but no discount for that' was the comment. On the renewal quote it states I have only one car, which is correct so told the guy I only have one car but own a motorhome and two motorbikes. We don't do motorbikes but I can put you down as having additional cars, so revised quoted of £341. Still not cheap but the best I think I can do.

Regards David 

[colin]

On 5/2/2023 at 9:27 AM, John52 said:

Perhaps another advantage of it being an common ordinary van is I don't have to speak to anyone - I just put in my vehicle registration and find it on their website.  So its all done online, making it quick and easy to get a range of quotes.  When I did speak to them nobody has ever said they won't insure me at all - just one who said they won't insure me for third party only, but they will insure me comprehensive.  Where I have found one online who would quote me third party only is was more than I am paying for comprehensive.  As I recall one of the questions was 'does it have a tracker' and I clicked No - but I still got a decent quote.

A few years ago comparison site didn't do motorhomes, they do now.

[laimeduck]

1 hour ago, colin said:

A few years ago comparison site didn't do motorhomes, they do now.

At age 73, on my Benimar with 5000 miles pa, 180 days in Europe we pay Fully Comp £169 pa. Been with them for years. AIB

Jeremy

[ColinM50]

who's that with L'aime?

[colin]

11 minutes ago, ColinM50 said:

who's that with L'aime?

Please inform DVLA your eyesight is poor. 😜

[laimeduck]

1 hour ago, ColinM50 said:

who's that with L'aime?

ColinM50 - As stated it's with AIB ...ignore the other Colin! Tee Hee!

Jeremy