Hello, new here, trading up to a big A-class

[Daveth]

I realised after a chance sighting on a motorhome dealership's forecourt recently how much more suitable an A-class would be for my my wife and me now that we've retired. We've decided to sell our 2007 Autocruise and shop for a larger A-class with a fixed bed and larger payload. We hope to spend a few months each year traveling around Europe and possibly Morocco.

We're on the look-out for A-classes from the mid-2000s built on the Mercedes 616 chassis or the 7-tonne Iveco. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about them. There's not nearly as many of them around within our budget as motorhomes built on a Fiat Ducato base.

[John52]

If I was buying an 18 year old motorhome to tour Morocco I would want something easier to get parts for and repair.

[Daveth]

I would, too. Do you think parts would be easier to obtain in Morocco for a Mercedes than a Fiat?

I like what I've read about the 5 cylinder turbodiesel in the Mercedes 616 covering hundreds of thousands of miles without major engine work, with only regular maintenance of filters, oil changes and the injection system required. Conversely, the 2.8 JTD Fiat engines seem to be a bit hit-or-miss.

[John52]

23 minutes ago, Daveth said:

I would, too. Do you think parts would be easier to obtain in Morocco for a Mercedes than a Fiat?

I have no idea

I was thinking about parts for an A class - like the windscreen, and access to the engine etc for repair.

[simians]

Plenty of Sprinter based commercial vehicles in Morocco, old and not so old.  Being RWD they are usually the preferred option epecially when travelling the rougher pistes. Best avoided is FWD tandem or tag axle, uphill starts on loose gravel can be problematical. As for parts availability all I can say is most larger towns have dealer representation for Sevel based and Merc. commercial vehicles. Morocco has a large used vehicle parts/salvage 'network' and most garages will carry out get-you-home repairs. Conversion parts are likely to be a problem, the home market for motorhoming is in its infancy in Maroc. Probably 99% of motorhomes in Maroc are foreign tourists, ie Europeans, mainly thousands of old codgers spending 3 winter months in the sun.

Don't forget over 3.5t requires C1 Licence. And the older your diesel engine so  it will increasingly restrict your transit and access through French urban areas (Crit' Air). 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by simians
RWD not FWD

[John52]

21 minutes ago, simians said:

Being FWD they are usually the preferred option epecially when travelling the rougher pistes.

 

I don't understand that

RWD gives more traction on steep hills as when the van points uphill the centre of gravity moves back

[simians]

Just checking to see if anyone was awake😁 Now edited. I should have added 'even more preferable would be RWD and twin/dual rear wheel axle'.

Edited June 20, 2023 by simians

[Brian Kirby]

2 hours ago, Daveth said:

................................ We've decided to sell our 2007 Autocruise and shop for a larger A-class with a fixed bed and larger payload. We hope to spend a few months each year traveling around Europe and possibly Morocco.

We're on the look-out for A-classes from the mid-2000s built on the Mercedes 616 chassis or the 7-tonne Iveco. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about them. There's not nearly as many of them around within our budget as motorhomes built on a Fiat Ducato base.

You do not need to have a A-class van to get a fixed bed, many coachbuilt layouts also offer them.

I agree with John re the windscreens on A-class vans.  They can be very expensive and, on the older vans, difficult to obtain.

They are also, based on my own experience, a lot more prone to breakage, due largely, it seemed, to the the screen being sited right at the front of the vehicle, being more vertical than on a van cab, and presumably, just being that much larger.

[simians]

Some past Neismann+Bischoff models with massive windscreens were prone to detach themselves under sudden heavy breaking, sometimes with them ending up some distance down the road!

Often north of £3000 for A Class screens, assuming availability. And can be a very long wait for sufficient order numbers to mount up to make it worthwhIle for the manufacturer to produce a batch, so I've heard. Some more serious/paranoid? Morocco bound owners protect the 'screen from stone damage and the like with a mesh grille, mounted on standoffs.

[Brian Kirby]

The only A-class we owned was a 6.75 metre long Hymer Exsis-i, so far from the largest of its ilk.  Bought new in 2013 and sold 2017.

So why did we sell?  First, because I totally lost confidence (and patience!) in its idiosyncratic Comfortmatic gearbox (a completely different story!) and the reported costs of repair if it went wrong, and second, because it "ate" windscreens!  At the time it was sold it, it was on its fourth windscreen!

We bought our first van in 2005 and, from memory, at the time we bought the Hymer in 2013, hadn't needed a single screen to be replaced in 47,000 miles - 'though one did need a chip repairing. 

The Hymer, like its precedents, had been driven on "proper" roads only, in UK, Austria, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxemburg, Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, Spain, and Germany, and had covered just 25,000 miles.  An average of roughly one screen per 6,000 miles vs. one chip repair in 47,000 miles!

With Morocco on the agenda, and bearing in mind that the older vans also tend to have glass headlamp lenses, I think stone shields for them too would be a good idea - though I should add that have absolutely no experience of Moroccan roads!  🙂 

[Dave S]

4 hours ago, simians said:

Don't forget over 3.5t requires C1 Licence. And the older your diesel engine so  it will increasingly restrict your transit and access through French urban areas (Crit' Air). 

 

Not only do you need a C1 licence, you need regular medicals to keep C1 once you reach 70 years old.

[Robinhood]

31 minutes ago, Brian Kirby said:

....though I should add that have absolutely no experience of Moroccan roads!  🙂 

...I have... 😉

[simians]

1 hour ago, Dave S said:

Not only do you need a C1 licence, you need regular medicals to keep C1 once you reach 70 years old.

Not to forget the eyesight test and the filling in of bleeding form D2, which  seems to catch some out. Also speed restricted to 80 kph in France, and thru' French towns and villages the 50kph limit for < 3.5t is often reduced to 40kph for >3.5t, which of course results in a tail back. At least 30kph zones aren't reduced to 20kph for >3.5t.........yet.

Not that any of this should put anyone of of course. Lol

[simians]

1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said:

 

With Morocco on the agenda, and bearing in mind that the older vans also tend to have glass headlamp lenses, I think stone shields for them too would be a good idea - though I should add that have absolutely no experience of Moroccan roads!  🙂 

Major Moroccan roads are actually in quite a good state of repair, many originate from French colonial days. It's the extensive rural 'piste' roads gravel/dirt that throw up the windscreen cracking debris. You do tend to miss a great deal of the Moroccan experience if you're not prepared to take some risks, and just stick to the tarmac.

Edited June 20, 2023 by simians

[witzend]

Much better to get a PVC all parts available from main dealers. Unlike A class where after a few years most body parts aren,t

[Brian Kirby]

1 hour ago, Robinhood said:

...I have... 😉

😄  

[terry298658]

20 hours ago, Dave S said:

Not only do you need a C1 licence, you need regular medicals to keep C1 once you reach 70 years old.

are you sure need a C1 licence,  once you  70 years old, if more than 75 yeasrs old, which need?

[terry298658]

20 hours ago, Robinhood said:

...I have... 😉

I have too.lol...😶

[simians]

56 minutes ago, terry298658 said:

are you sure need a C1 licence,  once you  70 years old, if more than 75 yeasrs old, which need?

If you passed your car test prior to 1997 you can exercise so called 'grandfather rights' this permits you to drive under a specific concessional C1 Classification ie over 3.5t but under 7.5t, no practical test required. On reaching 70 yoa if you want to retain the C1 then you have to take a medical and eyesight test, this has to be repeated every 3 years.

If you passed your car driving test post 1997 then you have to pass the actual C driving test, which normally involves professional instruction

[simians]

Could add that C is for 3.5t to 32t. Probably most motorhomers requiring a licence weight upgrade wouldn't want anymore than the C1 test gives ie 3.5t to 7.5t. 

[Brock]

I am on my third A-Class since 2000. I bought them because the drop down beds gives us more space which is essential to keep the van on our drive. If it was not for the space benefit, I would buy a 'normal' motorhome.

I know there are A-Class fanatics; I'd probably be one if I was able to find a local garage can do all the work necessary, the windscreen wasn't £1800 (in c2016 but it was supplied in England within a day and paid for by the insurer), had a longer home drive, and drop down beds are not to everyone's taste and are not as good as fixed beds. I could go on - I've not mentioned the cost! On the upside, A-classes tend to be well built and most have double floors.

On risk, I'd say the chances of having an incident there is little to choose between cabs/A-classes. It's trying to solve problems where the A-classes are in a class of their own. If Daveth is willing to take the risk, go for it! We all seek adventure don't we?

[Brian Kirby]

1 hour ago, Brock said:

.........................................................On risk, I'd say the chances of having an incident there is little to choose between cabs/A-classes. It's trying to solve problems where the A-classes are in a class of their own. If Daveth is willing to take the risk, go for it! We all seek adventure don't we?

As it seems Daveth hasn't previously owned an A-class van, I think it occurred to some of who have that, as with all motorhomes to some degree, there are things about them that aren't apparent at first sight.

It is difficult to assess "risk" when contemplating some new venture, if one is unaware of the risks inherent in that venture.

I think those of us who responded were seeking to pass on the benefits of our collected experiences with A-class vans to Daveth, for him to consider as he sees fit.

Speaking for myself, I had no intention of trying to put him off, just to point out a perhaps less than obvious potential snag in taking an older, now out of production, motorhome, to a country in which conversion parts - especially those critical to driving safety - may not be so readily available as in Europe.

Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.  That was all.  🙂