CBE PC180 Kit & Relay Charging

[mountaingoat]

Good morning,

First time posted and no idea how I haven't found this forum before! Only when searching CBE related issues has it come up! 

I bought a CBE PC180 kit a couple of years ago. This features the CB516 (not the latest -3 version), DS300, DS120S etc.

I never got round to installing it as life got in the way but I am now. I also purchased a CTEK D250SE at the same time as I didn't realise there was an inbuilt split relay within the CB516 and I thought it was it was just for 240v shore power. 

My questions are two fold I suppose;

Should I sell the CTEK and just use the CB516 or is the technology and charging on that a bit old hat now? 

If I decided to keep and install the CTEK for my alternator charging (and maybe solar later on) will this work and play nicely with the CBE kit? Both the control panel and other relay? Or will they somehow cancel each other out or get confused? 

I've tried searching using the CB516 with other smart chargers but haven't found too much about it. 

I'm running AGM batteries.

Thank you! 

[Brian Kirby]

It seems you have a contradictory duplication!  🙂  You have AGM leisure batteries, for which the CB 516 is not optimised, plus the CTEK D520SE which is AGM optimised, but may or may not interface with the PC180 control panel if substituted for the CB516.

For assured compatibility it would be simplest to substitute either lead acid, or - better IMO ('though more expensive 😞), gel, batteries for your AGMs.  (It is possible to use the gel setting on the CB516 to charge the AGMs, but I understand sub-optimal in terms of charge.) 

I should add at this point that I have limited technical knowledge of CBE equipment, although I have happily used it on two motorhomes over 10 years, and no personal experience whatever of CTEK equipment.!  😄 

What I particularly liked about the CBE equipment, however, was the way in which, having completed its charge cycle, it ceases charging altogether and merely monitors the battery charge state, until the battery charge falls below its trigger level, when it resumes its charge cycle.  This eliminates the permanent trickle charge provided by other chargers, which I understand is not good for batteries over the long term.  I was then happy to leave the van permanently connected to mains while at home, and leave the leisure battery in the hands of the CBE charger.

There is, of course, an alternative to the above, which would be to swap the CB516 for the latest, CB516-3 charger (which appears to be compatible with the PC180 panel), stick with the AGMs, and then sell the both CB516 and the CTEK D250SE.   

Others with greater knowledge will doubtless spot the flaws in my reasoning!  🙂

[mountaingoat]

1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said:

It seems you have a contradictory duplication!  🙂  You have AGM leisure batteries, for which the CB 516 is not optimised, plus the CTEK D520SE which is AGM optimised, but may or may not interface with the PC180 control panel if substituted for the CB516.

For assured compatibility it would be simplest to substitute either lead acid, or - better IMO ('though more expensive 😞), gel, batteries for your AGMs.  (It is possible to use the gel setting on the CB516 to charge the AGMs, but I understand sub-optimal in terms of charge.) 

I should add at this point that I have limited technical knowledge of CBE equipment, although I have happily used it on two motorhomes over 10 years, and no personal experience whatever of CTEK equipment.!  😄 

What I particularly liked about the CBE equipment, however, was the way in which, having completed its charge cycle, it ceases charging altogether and merely monitors the battery charge state, until the battery charge falls below its trigger level, when it resumes its charge cycle.  This eliminates the permanent trickle charge provided by other chargers, which I understand is not good for batteries over the long term.  I was then happy to leave the van permanently connected to mains while at home, and leave the leisure battery in the hands of the CBE charger.

There is, of course, an alternative to the above, which would be to swap the CB516 for the latest, CB516-3 charger (which appears to be compatible with the PC180 panel), stick with the AGMs, and then sell the both CB516 and the CTEK D250SE.   

Others with greater knowledge will doubtless spot the flaws in my reasoning!  🙂

Thank you Brian.

Keeping the CTEK would be my preferred and using the 516 purely for parked up charging every now and again. I don't usually park up with power so would probably be less than once a month and I could just use it as a fall back option. 

It would just be discovering how well the CTEK will work through the other CBE products. 

But like you say, it may be worthwhile selling both and getting the 516-3 and actually pocketing some extra cash. Just the hassle of selling and rebuying I suppose...

Thank you

[onecal]

Hi

I personally would sell both and purchase the 516-3 

Regards

[Brian Kirby]

33 minutes ago, mountaingoat said:

...............................................It would just be discovering how well the CTEK will work through the other CBE products............................

That is where I think the problem may lie.  Reading what I could find of the CTEK, product it appears to duplicate (in terms of functionality, i.e. leisure battery charging when on EHU, + trickle charge to starter battery) what the CB516 charger does.  But, from the description I found, it isn't clear whether it is, or is intended to be, any more than just a battery charger - albeit a very good one.  What the CB516 is designed to do however, is to perform as a 12V power pack to feed lights and 12V sockets in the van while also charging depleted leisure batteries.  That, I assume, accounts for it being, apparently, bulkier than the CTEK item - and also incorporating a cooling fan.

However, as you've probably discovered, the CBE kit includes harness cables that terminate in pre-wired multi-pin connectors which plug into the control panel, the charger, and the distribution board (plus fused connections to both engine and leisure batteries, and, probably, fresh and waste water level tank probe cables as well).  The PC180 control panel has to be able to "see" all these items and their states of charge etc. for its condition indications to function.

But, as you imply, what will work best for you will depend on how you use your van and, to some extent, what kind of vehicle it is - i.e. a "full fat" motorhome (beds, cooker, fridge/freezer, washroom with shower & toilet, hob and oven, seats and dining table, etc. etc.), or a minimalist "camper" (bed, cool-box, portable toilet, portable camping stove).  If the latter, you might find that the CTEK is perfectly adequate for all your needs, and the added complexity of the CBE kit and its control panel is just unnecessary overkill, but if the former, maybe the CTEK is redundant as the CBE kit will cater for all your needs - except the AGMs.

[mountaingoat]

Update. If anyone is interested I have a CB516 and CTEK D250SE for sale 😂😂

[Brian Kirby]

Steady!  🙂  The above are just my - inexpert - opinions, representing what I think I might do in your position.  There are others on this forum who have much greater technical knowledge then me.  Wait a bit and see if anyone else comments before you leap into the unknown.  😐

[Alanb]

Probably due to other demands on my time, I seem to have missed this thread.

My IH Tio R PVC is currently fitted with with original CBE PC200, DS520, and CB516, to which I have grafted in a CTEK D250S. The batteries are 2 off XD27 dual pupose FLA from ABS, who claim 105Ah, but I supect that is at the C100 rate, so perhaps 95Ah at C20.

As Brian has stated the early CB516 model, did not offer an AGM charging profile.  This would only be significant if using EHU for long periods, and this is not the proposed useage pattern.

The available mounting space for a B2B is rather restrricted in a 5.6m PVC, and choice of the D250S was made several years ago, when fewer models of B2B were available. The DS250 is at the bottom end of the power range, with an output rating of 20A.

In order for a B2B to function, it is necessary for any existing split charge function to be disabled. If this is done by removing or otherwise disabling the split charge relay, the the greater part of the output of the D3250S(E) will be consumed by the 3 way fridge 12V element.

My solution was to add an additional changeover relay between the B1 +ve terminal of my DS520 (cf DS300) and the starter (B1) connection, with the normally open contact (NO or 87) connected to the fridge via an inline fuse.  The relay coil is operated by the DS520 simulated D+ output, but the former fridge output would suffice with down rated fuse. Connecting terminal 87a (NC contact) of the relay to the DSxxx B1+ve terminal retains the starter battery maintenance facility when on EHU.  For the new fridge relay, I used a micro automotive C/O relay rated at 25A.

To summarise, my advice is to proceed as originally proposed, but with my fridge relay suggestion incorporated.  You would then have the benefit of improved habitation (B2) battery charging from the alternator.

However if the OP is still interested in selling his CTEK D250SE, then I may well be interested as a possible upgrade. He is welcome to PM me in this context if he wishes.

Alan

[PhantomFixer]

I’d imagine the OP has now resolved his issue regarding the D250. However for the benefit of others with a similar dilemma. There would be no real issues integrating the CBE DS300 (or DSxxx) with a DC to DC charger. 
To keep things simple you just need to disable the on board split charge relay. This is done by snipping R37 on the DS300. 
The DS300 has not been without its issues over the years, and has undergone several upgrades where the onboard relays have been upgraded. 
Importantly with any charging system of this type especially using non isolated chargers, earthing can be critical and where a lot fall over. Some owners choose to run additional large cross section cable direct from the alternator, as this can eliminate bad earthing between the alternator / engine and chassis. Attached you’ll find the drawing for wiring B2B chargers with CB180/DS300.

Regards Steve

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/user/downloads/Guide for fitting B2B charger with DS300 for vehicles with 'smart' alternators.pdf

Edited March 25 by PhantomFixer