Insurance

[Colin Hamilton]

Almost a year after a no fault accident my Motorhome has still not repaired. Has anyone hired a Motorhome or claimed for loss of use?

[arthur49]

I have not personally hired a motorhome and claimed loss of use as I've been fortunate and not been in an accident.

But your question poses more questions.

1. what are the reasons for your motorhome not being repaired?

2. do you have comprehensive cover or third party only?

3. if you have comprehensive cover why are you not claiming on your own insurance and claiming any excess and loss of use back from the third party's insurer?

4. what are your own insurers saying about your role in the accident?

5. what are the third party insurers saying about your role in the accident?

Edited September 16, 2023 by arthur49

[Brian Kirby]

A year's delay in repair is clearly unreasonable.  However, if necessary parts cannot be obtained from either or both of the motorhome manufacturer or base vehicle manufacturer, how can the repairer proceed?

So, what does the repairer say is the reason for the delay?

What does your insurance policy say about timely execution of accident repairs?

Is a preferred repairer (either insurance company or motorhome manufacturer) making the repairs?

Does your insurance policy cover loss of use?  If not, against whom are you proposing to claim for loss of use?

Does your insurer accept that the accident was the (presumed) other party's fault?

Does the (presumed) other party, or their insurer, contest that they were at fault?

[Colin Hamilton]

The initial delay was the repairer not finding a Laika dealer for three months! The the insrance company engineer took several months to report and the insurance company to approve the repair. Then after six months the spares were ordered and are due at the end of this month. As far as I know no policy has a loss of use clause. Until the repair is completed and the other insrance company settles, it show up as my fault! Even though the police report clearly states it wasn’t.

so in short I can’t claim anything until the repairs are done. Si I will have lost a year  of motorhoming!

[Colin Hamilton]

There is a National data base where all accidents are listed and until my Motorhome is repaired and the third party settles, it show me at fault! When I complained saying this was morally wrong, I was told that is the system!
the insurance company are saying lack of spares is not their fault but I maintain they didn’t help matters by taking six months to make a decision.

I have also asked the legal firm that covers my policy and they have also said I have to wait until the repairs are completed. I was thinking I’d taking the other driver to the small claims court for loss of use.

[doctina]

We're just getting quotes for campervan insurance on our first van; would you be prepared to name your insurance company as this seems like one to avoid?

Or, is this a common problem with all insurers?

[Colin Hamilton]

the company is Aviva, I certainly will not use them again.

[Brian Kirby]

There's a Which? piece on dealing with unsatisfactory claims settlements here: https://tinyurl.com/2dhcdg7c

It appears that you have first to formally complain (in writing) to the insurance company, who then have a statutory eight weeks within which to explain themselves.

If you remain dissatisfied with their reply, you can then escalate to the Financial Ombudsman.  I assume that your complaint will be based on the consequences for you of the insurer's slow and unsatisfactory response to your initial claim.

Without further knowledge, it isn't possible to comment on why the repairer (but who selected them?) took three months to locate a Liaka dealer.  There are only 7 in England, and one in Scotland.  That took me only a minute on the 'net!  🙂 

I assume that in his own interest the repairer would not order parts before the insurer had confirmed acceptance of the claim?  So, on the face of it, that places the insurer's loss adjuster in the firing line for his tardy visit to the repairer, and subsequent report back to the insurer, and the insurer's subsequent tardy acceptance of the claim based on the report.  I just wonder if the damage might have been severe, possibly leading to internal arguments over whether write off, or repair, was the most economical remedy?

Any delay in obtaining the necessary parts can only be answered by Liaka, who I assume will invoke general post Covid production backlogs, and possible changes to your van model meaning certain items had become difficult to obtain - none of which, of course, can reasonably be laid at the insurer's door.

You haven't revealed the nature of the accident, the extent of the damage, or the model and year of your Liaka, so it is very difficult to understand the likely extent and complexity of the necessary repairs, and why so great a delay could, reasonably, in the event, have been avoided had all parties acted with alacrity.

The final element in the delay is the response of the other party and their insurer, and whether they are denying liability.  You say the police report clearly places the blame on the other driver, but do you know if they are actually challenging the veracity of the police report, or just being generally uncooperative?

Does your legal insurance extend to representing you, including if necessary in court, or merely providing (verbal, as opposed to written?) advice?  I ask, because it seems, given all the circumstances, that they ought to be advising you how best to proceed - and yet from what you have so far said, it seems they are not doing this.  Have you therefore considered contacting Citizens Advice, to see if they can provide legal advice (I believe they have "panel" solicitors) on how to proceed without inadvertently prejudicing your case?

Is there any further detail on the accident, and the extent of the damage, that you would be comfortable providing?

[arthur49]

17 minutes ago, Brian Kirby said:

There's a Which? piece on dealing with unsatisfactory claims settlements here: https://tinyurl.com/2dhcdg7c

It appears that you have first to formally complain (in writing) to the insurance company, who then have a statutory eight weeks within which to explain themselves.

If you remain dissatisfied with their reply, you can then escalate to the Financial Ombudsman.  I assume that your complaint will be based on the consequences for you of the insurer's slow and unsatisfactory response to your initial claim.

Without further knowledge, it isn't possible to comment on why the repairer (but who selected them?) took three months to locate a Liaka dealer.  There are only 7 in England, and one in Scotland.  That took me only a minute on the 'net!  🙂 

I assume that in his own interest the repairer would not order parts before the insurer had confirmed acceptance of the claim?  So, on the face of it, that places the insurer's loss adjuster in the firing line for his tardy visit to the repairer, and subsequent report back to the insurer, and the insurer's subsequent tardy acceptance of the claim based on the report.  I just wonder if the damage might have been severe, possibly leading to internal arguments over whether write off, or repair, was the most economical remedy?

Any delay in obtaining the necessary parts can only be answered by Liaka, who I assume will invoke general post Covid production backlogs, and possible changes to your van model meaning certain items had become difficult to obtain - none of which, of course, can reasonably be laid at the insurer's door.

You haven't revealed the nature of the accident, the extent of the damage, or the model and year of your Liaka, so it is very difficult to understand the likely extent and complexity of the necessary repairs, and why so great a delay could, reasonably, in the event, have been avoided had all parties acted with alacrity.

The final element in the delay is the response of the other party and their insurer, and whether they are denying liability.  You say the police report clearly places the blame on the other driver, but do you know if they are actually challenging the veracity of the police report, or just being generally uncooperative?

Does your legal insurance extend to representing you, including if necessary in court, or merely providing (verbal, as opposed to written?) advice?  I ask, because it seems, given all the circumstances, that they ought to be advising you how best to proceed - and yet from what you have so far said, it seems they are not doing this.  Have you therefore considered contacting Citizens Advice, to see if they can provide legal advice (I believe they have "panel" solicitors) on how to proceed without inadvertently prejudicing your case?

Is there any further detail on the accident, and the extent of the damage, that you would be comfortable providing?

As a (long!) retired claims manager with a major international insurer there are just so many questions it is impossible to answer the OP question I'm afraid!

[crocs]

I have always taken the view that, if something is not my fault, I should, as soon as possible, be returned to the position I was in before the incident. So, if I were sure of my facts, I would hire a Motorhome (for reasonable periods of time) and claim from the other party's insurer, if necessary using the Small Claims procedures. By all means inform both insurers but do not seek permission.

Formal complaints leading to Ombudsman submissions take too long and should be viewed as a means of gaining recompense if all else fails.

[Brian Kirby]

19 hours ago, crocs said:

I have always taken the view that, if something is not my fault, I should, as soon as possible, be returned to the position I was in before the incident. So, if I were sure of my facts, I would hire a Motorhome (for reasonable periods of time) and claim from the other party's insurer, if necessary using the Small Claims procedures. By all means inform both insurers but do not seek permission.

Formal complaints leading to Ombudsman submissions take too long and should be viewed as a means of gaining recompense if all else fails.

Yes, but the key is in the statement "as soon as possible".  It is possible that, despite the year that has elapsed since the incident, it was not reasonably possible (the normal legal test) for the parties to proceed at greater speed.  

They would almost certainly defend themselves by claiming that they had all proceeded as fast as was possible under the circumstances and, if that defence were accepted, Colin would almost certainly be left liable for those hire costs, and in addition his prosecution, the court, and the defence, costs for his failed case.

That is why I was asking all those tedious questions.  It is a vey brave and rich man (by which I do not seek to imply Colin is lacking in either courage or wealth!  🙂) who goes to court believing he has a "cast iron" case!  It may be that the delay is due to indolence or incompetence on the part of the repairer or the insurer, or both, but that has to be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Unless Colin can identify who failed, and prove it, I think he'd be far better advised to avoid legal confrontation and proceed by appealing to all those involved for the maximum of cooperation in now bringing the repairs to the speediest possible conclusion.

Time lost is time lost, one cannot get it back.  All one can realistically do is seek to eliminate any possible future delays by getting the participants on one's side.  Issuing empty threats will merely antagonise, and thereby lose any remaining goodwill and cooperation.

Appeals for support, and even offers of help in bringing the matter to a speedy conclusion are, IMO, more likely to bear fruit - whether or not that is personally palatable.  They've got to start feeling sorry for him and that they have failed him, rather than angry with him!

Edited September 24, 2023 by Brian Kirby

[crocs]

On 24/09/2023 at 18:50, Brian Kirby said:

Yes, but the key is in the statement "as soon as possible".  It is possible that, despite the year that has elapsed since the incident, it was not reasonably possible (the normal legal test) for the parties to proceed at greater speed.  

They would almost certainly defend themselves by claiming that they had all proceeded as fast as was possible under the circumstances and, if that defence were accepted, Colin would almost certainly be left liable for those hire costs, and in addition his prosecution, the court, and the defence, costs for his failed case.

That is why I was asking all those tedious questions.  It is a vey brave and rich man (by which I do not seek to imply Colin is lacking in either courage or wealth!  🙂) who goes to court believing he has a "cast iron" case!  It may be that the delay is due to indolence or incompetence on the part of the repairer or the insurer, or both, but that has to be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Unless Colin can identify who failed, and prove it, I think he'd be far better advised to avoid legal confrontation and proceed by appealing to all those involved for the maximum of cooperation in now bringing the repairs to the speediest possible conclusion.

Time lost is time lost, one cannot get it back.  All one can realistically do is seek to eliminate any possible future delays by getting the participants on one's side.  Issuing empty threats will merely antagonise, and thereby lose any remaining goodwill and cooperation.

Appeals for support, and even offers of help in bringing the matter to a speedy conclusion are, IMO, more likely to bear fruit - whether or not that is personally palatable.  They've got to start feeling sorry for him and that they have failed him, rather than angry with him!

All very laudable but I stand by my advice. Too often, people are left out of pocket or inconvenienced for too long whilst bureaucratic arguments take place amongst too many parties. Be sure of your facts, take appropriate action and don't be a hostage to bureaucracy.

[Colin Hamilton]

My Motorhome has finally been repaired so I have submitted a claim including £20000 loss of use

[Adiebt]

Glad you are back on the road , may I ask , who are you claiming against ?