Wendy Macey Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Hello. Wandering if anyone has some advice. We took our new van away last weekend and the windscreen and camera became condensed. This has affected the lane recognition and few other things. We have been home a week. Dried the area out with fan and hairdryer, however on the dash is still showing the issues. Wandering if the dash needs some kind of reset? Now yesterday... we have been using the electric step no problem. Its now started with a buzzing alarm when the engine is running. The step works in and out no problem. We have given it all a wash thinking it may have been debris. No joy. Any ideas gratefully received before we go to the professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) Welcome to the forum Wendy, but I think you'll need to give us a bit more detail of your van. 🙂 Motorhomes generally fall into one of two broad categories: those with "coachbuilt" bodies (where most if not all of the bodywork is provided by the converter), or panel van conversions (often referred to as PVCs, "campers", or "campervans"), where a standard commercial van is internally converted into a motorhome with additional windows and rooflights etc. being added as necessary, but the van bodywork is retained. Fiat Ducatos are, I think it fair to say, the most popular vans to be converted into motorhomes, and the Fiat Ducato elements of the completed vehicle, whether coachbuilt or PVC, are usually referred to as the "base vehicle" (because the Ducato van provides the base for the conversion). What we'll need to know is the year of your van, who converted it into a motorhome (e.g. Swift, Hobby, Hymer, etc.), and what their model designation is (which is where, I suspect, your above "sgx" part designation has come from), and, ideally, which version of the Ducato it is based on (at least engine size and power). All Ducatos are not equal! 🙂 It seems your van has suffered, on the one hand from internal windscreen condensation in the cold weather, which may have caused problems with one of the Fiat "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems" (ADAS) - the "lane guidance" facility, and on the other hand from an unrelated problem with its external electric entrance step (probably made by Thule). The latter seems likely to be due to an adjustment problem that is preventing the step from retracting fully when the engine is started, or possibly a sensor that if failing to properly register that the step has properly retracted. This should be fairly easily fixed if you take the van back to whoever sold it and explain what is happening. I suspect it won't be the first time they will have encountered this problem - which is not common, but arises from time to time. The windscreen condensation, however, sounds like a hitherto unforeseen issue with the latest vans, on which ADAS is now mandatory but, as yet, relatively few will have been "user tested" in cold weather after vans so equipped have been converted to motorhomes. On this issue, one thing in particular occurs to me: do you have an insulated external windscreen cover? If not, seek advice on here regarding suitable items, but do get one as soon as possible as it will greatly reduce the amount of condensation that inevitably accumulates on a cold windscreen. Even with an insulated cover, however, you will need to "actively manage" the amount of humidity generated while occupying the van. This will dictate that you maintain a sufficient level of ventilation to allow the humidity to escape freely rather than building up as you cook, wash, and breathe. Condensation is a common problem in cold weather motorhoming, but its possible impact on the latest ADAS electronic gizmos won't be. You may need to experiment a bit to find out what works best for you, and your van. Edited January 21 by Brian Kirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Welcome to the OutandAboutLive forums, Wendy. I'm guessing your reference to a Ducato sgx" relates to a new Adria Twin Sports or Supreme panel-van conversion, but it would be helpful if you would confirm this. The Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook has a number of pages of guidance on the LANE CONTROL SYSTEM including this advice As you've got rid of the condensation, I suggest you try driving the vehicle to see if the message on the dashboard disappears of its own accord. (It could help if you stated exactly what the dashboard message is.) If the windscreen-mounted camera is obstructed (snow, dirt, condensation, etc. on the outside of the windscreen) there will be unpredictable knock-on effects on all the irritating 'driver assistance' features that use the camera (not just the Lane Control feature). So if the camera has trouble 'seeing', it's quite likely that dashboard warning messages will be displayed for more than one of those features. Those messages may persist in being displayed for some time until the vehicle's computer recognises that the camera is no longer obstructed, at which point the warning messages should cease being displayed. However, if that does not happen, a Fiat Professional dealership will need to be contacted. I don't think this is a Ducato 'motorhome' phenomenon, most new vehicles will have a similar windscreen-mounted camera arrangement with the camera tight against the screen and (hopefully) immune to condensation forming between the inside of the windscreen and the camera-unit itself. (Obviously, if there's condensation on the outside of the windscreen, that's going to obstruct the camera's view.). If an audible alarm is being produced when your motorhome's engine is running but the step is fully retracted, this suggests there is a 'limit-switch' problem. When the step is extended and the engine is started, if the step fails to retract (or does not fully retract) an audible alarm should sound. But when the step has retracted fully, a limit-switch (at the back of the step's cassette) should stop the alarm from sounding. You could try retracting the step using the manual switch and give the step a good hard push after it has retracted just in case doing this cuts off the alarm as a temporary fix. As the the step is part of the motorhome conversion, the responsibility for addressing the alarm issue is the motorhome dealership from which you bought the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) Hi, Sadly this is an issue to be solved by the manufacture . a little difficult with inside condensation in motorhomes, a simple fix is to use external screens and use your Air conditioning on start up and it should clear the condensation a little quicker and better. So log your complaint with your dealer as soon as possible. In the near future a new camera attachment may be made available and transparent heaters that will help dissipate the condensation a little quicker , but that's an other issue. For now the best simple fix that helps is use an outside screen on a motorhome or as some motorhomers do, is to also use an absorbent tray on the dash . Some get good results where others do not. Once in front of the camera lens clear of moisture there should be no need for a reset Just turn off the ignition and turn on again Hope this helps Regards Edited January 21 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 It’s the same with our late 23 reg Fiat based Malibu pvc. the camera system for lane, breaking and auto main beam is dismal. Slightest bit of fine rain and the warning lights come on, and the stupid thing is that the default setting for the headlights is Main beam. I have a Ford with auto cruise control, between Worcester and LHR I do not touch the brakes or accelerater, it just works perfect. My new Fiat is unbelievably bad. It’s blind after a few miles and no condensation inside. I’ve not contacted Fiat yet, will do this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Hi, Contact them ASP Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Macey Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 10 hours ago, onecal said: Hi, Contact them ASP Regards Thank you everyone for your input. Not sure if I am replying correctly all new to me this forum stuff! 14 hours ago, Brian Kirby said: Welcome to the forum Wendy, but I think you'll need to give us a bit more detail of your van. 🙂 Motorhomes generally fall into one of two broad categories: those with "coachbuilt" bodies (where most if not all of the bodywork is provided by the converter), or panel van conversions (often referred to as PVCs, "campers", or "campervans"), where a standard commercial van is internally converted into a motorhome with additional windows and rooflights etc. being added as necessary, but the van bodywork is retained. Fiat Ducatos are, I think it fair to say, the most popular vans to be converted into motorhomes, and the Fiat Ducato elements of the completed vehicle, whether coachbuilt or PVC, are usually referred to as the "base vehicle" (because the Ducato van provides the base for the conversion). What we'll need to know is the year of your van, who converted it into a motorhome (e.g. Swift, Hobby, Hymer, etc.), and what their model designation is (which is where, I suspect, your above "sgx" part designation has come from), and, ideally, which version of the Ducato it is based on (at least engine size and power). All Ducatos are not equal! 🙂 It seems your van has suffered, on the one hand from internal windscreen condensation in the cold weather, which may have caused problems with one of the Fiat "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems" (ADAS) - the "lane guidance" facility, and on the other hand from an unrelated problem with its external electric entrance step (probably made by Thule). The latter seems likely to be due to an adjustment problem that is preventing the step from retracting fully when the engine is started, or possibly a sensor that if failing to properly register that the step has properly retracted. This should be fairly easily fixed if you take the van back to whoever sold it and explain what is happening. I suspect it won't be the first time they will have encountered this problem - which is not common, but arises from time to time. The windscreen condensation, however, sounds like a hitherto unforeseen issue with the latest vans, on which ADAS is now mandatory but, as yet, relatively few will have been "user tested" in cold weather after vans so equipped have been converted to motorhomes. On this issue, one thing in particular occurs to me: do you have an insulated external windscreen cover? If not, seek advice on here regarding suitable items, but do get one as soon as possible as it will greatly reduce the amount of condensation that inevitably accumulates on a cold windscreen. Even with an insulated cover, however, you will need to "actively manage" the amount of humidity generated while occupying the van. This will dictate that you maintain a sufficient level of ventilation to allow the humidity to escape freely rather than building up as you cook, wash, and breathe. Condensation is a common problem in cold weather motorhoming, but its possible impact on the latest ADAS electronic gizmos won't be. You may need to experiment a bit to find out what works best for you, and your van. 10 hours ago, Den said: It’s the same with our late 23 reg Fiat based Malibu pvc. the camera system for lane, breaking and auto main beam is dismal. Slightest bit of fine rain and the earring lights come on and the stupid thing is the default setting for the headlights is Main beam. I have a Ford with auto cruise control, between Worcester and LHR I do not touch the breaks or eccelerater it just works perfect. my new Fiat is unbelievably bad. It’s blind after a few miles and no condensation inside. I’ve not contacted Fiat yet, will do this week. 9 hours ago, onecal said: Hi, Contact them ASP Regards 12 hours ago, onecal said: Hi, Sadly this is an issue to be solved by the manufacture . a little difficult with inside condensation in motorhomes, a simple fix is to use external screens and use your Air conditioning on start up and it should clear the condensation a little quicker and better. So log your complaint with your dealer as soon as possible. In the near future a new camera attachment may be made available and transparent heaters that will help dissipate the condensation a little quicker , but that's an other issue. For now the best simple fix that helps is use an outside screen on a motorhome or as some motorhomers do, is to also use an absorbent tray on the dash . Some get good results where others do not. Once in front of the camera lens clear of moisture there should be no need for a reset Just turn off the ignition and turn on again Hope this helps Regards 13 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: Welcome to the OutandAboutLive forums, Wendy. I'm guessing your reference a Ducato sgx" relates to a new Adria Twin Sports or Supreme panel-van conversion, but it would be helpful if you would confirm this. The Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook has a number of pages of guidance on the LANE CONTROL SYSTEM including this advice As you've got rid of the condensation, I suggest you try driving the vehicle to see if the message on the dashboard disappears of its own accord. (It could help if you stated exactly what the dashboard message is.) If the windscreen-mounted camera is obstructed (snow, dirt, condensation, etc. on the outside of the windscreen) there will be unpredictable knock-on effects on all the irritating 'driver assistance' features that use the camera (not just the Lane Control feature). So if the camera has trouble 'seeing', it's quite likely that dashboard warning messages will be displayed for more than one of those features. Those messages may persist in being displayed for some time until the vehicle's computer recognises that the camera is no longer obstructed, at which point the warning messages should cease being displayed. However, if that does not happen, a Fiat Professional dealership will need to be contacted. I don't think this is a Ducato 'motorhome' phenomenon, most new vehicles will have a similar windscreen-mounted camera arrangement with the camera tight against the screen and (hopefully) immune to condensation forming between the inside of the windscreen and the camera-unit itself. (Obviously, if there's condensation on the outside of the windscreen, that's going to obstruct the camera's view.). If an audible alarm is being produced when your motorhome's engine is running but the step is fully retracted, this suggests there is a 'limit-switch' problem. When the step is extended and the engine is started, if the step fails to retract (or does not fully retract) an audible alarm should sound. But when the step has retracted fully, a limit-switch (at the back of the step's cassette) should stop the alarm from sounding. You could try retracting the step using the manual switch and give the step a good hard push after it has retracted just in case doing this cuts off the alarm as a temporary fix. As the the step is part of the motorhome conversion, the responsibility for addressing the alarm issue is the motorhome dealership from which you bought the vehicle. 14 hours ago, Brian Kirby said: Welcome to the forum Wendy, but I think you'll need to give us a bit more detail of your van. 🙂 Motorhomes generally fall into one of two broad categories: those with "coachbuilt" bodies (where most if not all of the bodywork is provided by the converter), or panel van conversions (often referred to as PVCs, "campers", or "campervans"), where a standard commercial van is internally converted into a motorhome with additional windows and rooflights etc. being added as necessary, but the van bodywork is retained. Fiat Ducatos are, I think it fair to say, the most popular vans to be converted into motorhomes, and the Fiat Ducato elements of the completed vehicle, whether coachbuilt or PVC, are usually referred to as the "base vehicle" (because the Ducato van provides the base for the conversion). What we'll need to know is the year of your van, who converted it into a motorhome (e.g. Swift, Hobby, Hymer, etc.), and what their model designation is (which is where, I suspect, your above "sgx" part designation has come from), and, ideally, which version of the Ducato it is based on (at least engine size and power). All Ducatos are not equal! 🙂 It seems your van has suffered, on the one hand from internal windscreen condensation in the cold weather, which may have caused problems with one of the Fiat "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems" (ADAS) - the "lane guidance" facility, and on the other hand from an unrelated problem with its external electric entrance step (probably made by Thule). The latter seems likely to be due to an adjustment problem that is preventing the step from retracting fully when the engine is started, or possibly a sensor that if failing to properly register that the step has properly retracted. This should be fairly easily fixed if you take the van back to whoever sold it and explain what is happening. I suspect it won't be the first time they will have encountered this problem - which is not common, but arises from time to time. The windscreen condensation, however, sounds like a hitherto unforeseen issue with the latest vans, on which ADAS is now mandatory but, as yet, relatively few will have been "user tested" in cold weather after vans so equipped have been converted to motorhomes. On this issue, one thing in particular occurs to me: do you have an insulated external windscreen cover? If not, seek advice on here regarding suitable items, but do get one as soon as possible as it will greatly reduce the amount of condensation that inevitably accumulates on a cold windscreen. Even with an insulated cover, however, you will need to "actively manage" the amount of humidity generated while occupying the van. This will dictate that you maintain a sufficient level of ventilation to allow the humidity to escape freely rather than building up as you cook, wash, and breathe. Condensation is a common problem in cold weather motorhoming, but its possible impact on the latest ADAS electronic gizmos won't be. You may need to experiment a bit to find out what works best for you, and your van. Thank you so much never been in a forum before! Its an Adria Twin Supreme 73 plate. Ordered an external cover... shutting the gate after the horse has bolted I know. Trying the step again today, then heading back to the garage uf no joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Hi, The external screens work for so many with Motorhomes issues of condensation forming inside on the glass , it should also work for you , The unit itself should not stay covered in condensation much longer than the screen and should clear especially if you turn on your air con (if fitted) Hopefully your dealer will help in the process of resolving your issue Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I notice that - on the MotorHomeFun forum - there have been two (2022) discussions about the Ducato windscreen-mounted camera and condensation issues. The links are below, with the first thread's original posting relating to a (2021) Adria Twin SGX. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/fiat-safety-pack-and-condensation.259893/ https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/ducato-adas-camera-faults.274545/ Although using a good quality external insulated cover should definitely help, it won't necessarily be a panacea. Our 2015 Ducato-based Rapido 640F motorhome had (as standard) internal Remis blinds for the cab glass, plus insulated curtains that could be drawn around the cab's interior in front of the seats. The Rapido's bed was at the rear and a solid door could be drawn across to separate the bedroom from the front lounge, but in cold weather a lot of condensation still formed on the inside of the cab windows. I had won in a competition a high quality external insulated cover, so I fitted this as an experiment and, although it reduced the cab-window/windscreen condensation dramatically, it did not totally eliminate it. Fitting/removing the external cover was a 'one-man' challenge in wet/windy weather and I decided that I'd prefer to accept the condensation and not bother with the cover. Being a 2015 vehicle, the Rapido lacked the 'driver safety' electronic toys that are now an unavoidable feature of the standard specification of recent Ducatos and - if the Rapido had been fitted with a windscreen-mounted camera that was being affected by internal condensation - I would certainly have used the external insulated cover far more (even though it would have grieved me to need to do so!) From what was said in the MHFun forum threads, there is not much that Fiat can do to address this inherent problem without modifying the camera-unit. (Apparently, to combat much the same condensation issue, recent Merceds-Benz cars have a heater built into the camera-unit). Fiat's response is likely to be "It's a motorhome - Tough luck!" and I can't see the company funding (or contributing to) the not inconsiderable cost of a good screen-cover. As using a cover is currently the only realistic way forwards, it might be worth owners of Ducato-based motorhomes afflicted by the condensation problem asking the motorhome dealership that sold them their vehicle if they will provide a suitable cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Hi I really think it's not acceptable to use the "its a motorhome-tough luck " attitude from Fiat or indeed any manufacture is good enough any more, considering they are been built on them and they make out they are so versatile to build on . Your first step is through your dealer and take it from there . The insulated screens should help in the interim , but as quoted it does not work as well on all vehicles Using your air con on (if fitted) while demisting your windscreen on start up should be a help Your not on your own with this issue , so get together Regards 3 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: "It's a motorhome - Tough luck!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 It’s not just from condensation. driving up the M5 the other day after a short while it showed dirty windscreen and turned off , turning on main beam !!! Im OTT keeping the screen clear often using a washer bottle of water on a round trip of 300 miles. the very slightest residue of fine rain / road spray will knock it out. absolute waste of money. my Ford one works in rain and only on a couple of occasions it has turned off. im speaking to Fiat shortly at our local Fiat Professional and I know I’ll be told that’s the way it is !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Fiat have a website devoted to how great the Ducato is as a base for campervans and motorhomes, so using the fact it's a motorhome doesn't wash, although they have tried that tactic before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Colin I agree a 100% No one should accept or have to accept that treatment anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 A GOOGLE-search on vehicle windscreen camera driver assistance condensation will show that windscreen-camera-related condensation problems are far from being a recent phenomenon and definitely not confined to motorhomes that are being slept in. This long Tesla Motors Club discussion was a 2019 example. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/condensation-between-windshield-and-front-facing-cameras.170641/ A comment in one of the MHFun discussions in 2022 I gave a link to above was "...The official response from Fiat technical is that there is no problem with the unit and condensation build up can occur as the vehicle is a motorhome that is being slept in..." It may be that complaints to Fiat in 2024 about this problem will not fall on deaf ears or be dismissive. But, if nothing technical has been done by Fiat to successfully address the condensation issue since 2022 (eg. fit a heater to the camera-unit to disperse the condensation) I'm pretty sure that "It's because it's a motorhome" will still be Fiat's simplistic official explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) An interesting, I thought, article I read the other day about East of England Ambulance Service. Although it does state in the article the fleet is nearing the end of it's service life, it appears it is ditching it's whole fleet of Fiat Ducatos in favour of Renault Master and Ford Transits citing unreliability and the fact that 40% of the fleet has been out of action all through the time of use. links anyone is interested. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-67873215.amp I realise the original post was regarding water and condense but with the comments regarding Fiat's attitude I thought it may be of interest that it's not only individuals having issues. Bas Edited January 23 by Basil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Last years most reliable van was the Sprinter, most reliable make was Ford, Fiat came in at 10th, bottom of the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) Hi Again who can agree with their attitude or indeed accept that , when the say how great and versatile their base vehicles are to build on ? I think when any customer pays out that kind of money for a motorhome they the customer deserved to be treated better than that . 4 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: "...The official response from Fiat technical is that there is no problem with the unit and condensation build up can occur as the vehicle is a motorhome that is being slept in..." Regards Edited January 23 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 There is a problem with this, and I expect it to grow. The problem is that although Fiat may sell the base vans to the converters, it is the converters who turn the vans into motorhomes, and who buy that vans in bulk from Fiat etc. My suggestion would be to forget griping at Fiat, and gripe at the converters and their dealers, and them let them gripe at Fiat as they have the greater commercial clout. Most, if not all, these gizmos have been mandated for inclusion on all new vehicles, so there is little chance of them being omitted unless the public at large begin to record their displeasure at being made the guinea-pig test drivers for systems that are, as yet, under-developed and unreliable. In the meantime, find out how to switch off the ADAS components that cause you the problems. They default to "on" as soon as you start the engine, so switch off those you don't want as soon as you do that. It's tedious, but t helps preserve sanity! 🙂 Who needs lane guidance anyhow? We all have eyeballs, don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Hi I am afraid it's not really that simple as just turning them off. You can of course but what your insurance may say in the event of an accident may be another issue . Yes I do agree with Brian It's the manufacture (converters) of these motorhomes and dealers needs the fault to be addressed to with the hope of them putting pressure on the base vehicle manufactures on how problematic this has become on the base vehicle they have produced They (the manufacture of the vehicle) should at least fix the problem, supply a fix or remove it if not fit for purpose within as a motorhome. That is if they now can? That's another issue.Of course we can all just keep telling Motorhomers Ah just keep turning them off, but is that really good enough after paying so much for the vehicle initially and maybe thinking this addition was so good and even a safety feature? I really think in 2024 motorhomers need to be treated better than this 10 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: "...The official response from Fiat technical is that there is no problem with the unit and condensation build up can occur as the vehicle is a motorhome that is being slept in..." Maybe Wendy Macey would let us know how things are progressing Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.