maureend Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Interested in buying these as heading for long trip for the winter. Has anyone bought and are they satisfactory. Also which make did you buy. Off to Prague and then on down to Greece for the winter - any tips! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As I see it you have three choices. 1) A properly fitted bolted to the chassis bulk gas tank. Those manufactured by Stako and supplied by MTH for example included a float type liquid gas level gague with a remote digital display for the cabin. Also an automatic filling stop off at 80% to allow for expansion. This is what I have fitted to our MH. 2) A re-fillable portable bottle or two to replace your non fillable bottles. The steel ones from Stako (MTH) include the same float type liquid gas level gague with a remote digital display for the cabin. Also an automatic filling stop off at 80% to allow for expansion. These bottles include a bolted on steel outlet protection ring which can be easilly removed if required to get a bigger bottle in your locker. 3) A re-fillable portable bottle or two to replace your non fillable bottles from Gaslow. I understand that these do not include the fluid gague option. They might now include the 80% filling stop off but certainly did not when first marketted. The Gaslow bottles have a welded on steel outlet protection ring which can not be easilly removed if required to get a bigger bottle in your locker. I have seen some installers hack saw these off at shows!! In the UK some garages may not permit you to fill re-fillable bottles so its best to not have the filling point inside the gas locker requiring the door to be opened which reveals its contents. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I have the Stako cylinder from MTH ( the float guage doesn't come with the remote digital display as Clive said although one might well be available) and thus far am very happy with it although we haven't used a lot of gas so far so not perhaps the best report for you. I fill mine at a local bulk gas depot as they are cheaper than petrol stations. They are also set up for the different VAT rate on the gas, LPG for road fuel carries the full 17.5% whereas LPG for domestic use has a lower rate applied. I also now think this might be a better place to fill up as it is not Autogas as supplied to petrol station forecourts. There have been suggestions that repeatedly using Autogas could cause problems with fridge burners (there's a thread about it on here somewhere). D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 i got the gaslow bottles fitted. Great stuff. 2 11kg bottles fully fitted, with a auto changeover, 80% overfill values etc. Cost £450 fitted. Filler valve on gas locker door. Never have any probs filling them. Is it not an advantage that these bottles can easily be removed and transfered to your next van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Dave, The remode digital display is a little kit supplied from MTH with my tank. The existing on tank gague is replaced (2 screws) with one which has a pair of wires comming out of it. These connect to the remote gague and the 12 volt supply. That,s it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I have MTH bottles but so far haven't needed to refill them. I did noice that in Spain it is difficult to find filling stations which cary LPG - no doubt if you have sanav it would be easier. My guide to Greek campsites is a bit out of date, but it says there are only 4 filling stations in the entire country which sell LPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Thanks for that Clive. I was just pointing out that it is an optional extra and not a standard part of the kit as your earlier posting suggested. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi maureend We had 2 x 11kg gaslow refillable cylinders fitted to our new van last year(they do have 80% cut off) by Autogas 2000 at Thirsk with a filler fitted in the side skirt. One of the best accessories we have bought. No more lugging full cylinders about or worrying about different gas suppliers in europe - we have fill adaptors for spain/france etc. When considering whether to go for refillable cylinders or fitted bulk tank it was the ease with which the refillable cylinders can be moved to a new van and the lower installation costs that swayed us toward these. We did not need the 'extra' storage that having a bulk tank would have freed up either. We have never had any problems on petrol forecourts (as it is just like filling an lpg car) and the best bit is that the lpg costs roughly half that of bottled gas such as Calor. My advice - whether bulk tank or refillables - go for it. Best regards, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 david lloyd - 2007-08-18 7:22 PM Hi maureend We had 2 x 11kg gaslow refillable cylinders fitted to our new van last year(they do have 80% cut off) by Autogas 2000 at Thirsk with a filler fitted in the side skirt. One of the best accessories we have bought. No more lugging full cylinders about or worrying about different gas suppliers in europe - we have fill adaptors for spain/france etc. My advice - whether bulk tank or refillables - go for it. Best regards, David I second that, and yes they do have the 80% cut off as David said. Having a reliable guage to tell you what remains would be an advantage in fixed tanks such as those that have been mentioned, but in the real world with Gaslows if you have two cylinders it makes no difference because as soon as one is empty you start to use the second and then refill at the next opportunity thereby filling both cylinders to the maximum until next time. A guage therefore is only advantageous when you only have a single either tank or Gaslow type cylinder. Well worth the outlay and the continuous cost savings on LPG not to mention the ease of filling anywhere in Europe, including Spain contrary to some reports. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maureend Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Thanks folks Can they be fitted by an able do-it-yourselfer fanatic like my husband! I see you can buy the tanks for around £130-40 each. (lol) How much did you pay when fully fitted by Autogas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Yes, DIY is possible Look at http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/GASKIT.htm Good luck C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Gaslow bottles have always had an 80% cut-off valve, otherwise (being steel bottles and hence opaque) it would be impossible to identify when the LPG 'safe level' had been reached when refilling the things. I think Clive was probably confusing the Gaslow containers with the composite 'plastic' bottles marketed by MTH Gas Systems. The latter have no cut-off valves, relying instead on the refiller being able to see the LPG level through the bottle's translucent gas storage vessel (though "guess" would be more apt than "see"!) Apparently a cut-off valve was developed for the composite bottles but was shelved due to financial considerations when production of the valve components moved to China. The composite container's primary role is in the exchangeable-bottle market (the Antargaz "Calypso" is an example in France) and its use as a refillable container is very much secondary (and probably confined to the UK). So there's no real incentive to manufacture a specialised cut-off valve for a product that will only be sold in very small numbers for user-refilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 maureend - 2007-08-18 9:40 PM Thanks folks Can they be fitted by an able do-it-yourselfer fanatic like my husband! I see you can buy the tanks for around £130-40 each. (lol) How much did you pay when fully fitted by Autogas? In the case of Gaslows, yes in a word. Does your husband change your standard Calor gas cylinders? If yes then so long as he can also use a drill to drill one hole and a screwdriver to screw six posidrive screws in, then he can fit Gaslows. He will of course also need to test all his joints as he would when changing a cylinder. If you go for Gaslows a twin 11kg cylinder (this gives 42 litres of LPG capacity at a cost of around £0.40p/ litre currently round here) DIY install will cost no more than £219.90 at current prices (6kg £30 less i.e. £189.90) for complete twin installation parts. See very competative prices at http://www.waudbys.co.uk/products/refillable_cylinders.html In Don Madges neck of the woods I believe if you wish for information on the supplier. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maureend Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 Gosh lads What a mine of information - didn't realise it was so simple - thanks very much. Glad to see all the technical help is still available. Haven't been on the site for ages and thought it was only chit chat now. Glad to have been proved wrong. Maureen D (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Yes, the Gaslows do have 80% cut of - but I have had two replaced (under warranty) as they have overfilled (allegedly) causing a smell of gas in the gas locker as the return valve has got damaged, Apparanetly, the forecourt pump switches off automatically when the 80% level is reached, and some are less tolerant than others. So I now try to stop filling when the rate of fiill slows down, rather than wait for the cut-off. From other threads, I believe I am not alone with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Just spotted an advert for Gaslow in the Sept MMM where it relates to "oily plasticiser residue from rubber hoses. This suggests to me that a properly fitted bulk tank where no rubber hose is used at all would be the most prudent way to go. All the low pressure pipework being solid copper and there being no high pressure hoses or pipework at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I've used a 10 litre (5kg) composite-construction refillable bottle for several years. When I purchased it originally it was the only refillable container that would pass through the gas-locker door of my motorhome, so there was no alternative choice. The lack of an 80% cut-off valve is a bug-bear, but the small capacity is rarely bothersome. There's no 'remote fill' capability either, but I generally find this a pro not a con as, if an autogas pump is awkwardly positioned, I can take the bottle to the pump instead of trying to manoeuvre the motorhome close to it. Would I buy another or recommend one? No. Am I going to replace it? No. The bottle continues to prove adequate for my needs and I've learned to live with its limitations. My motorhome's gas-system comprises the 5kg composite bottle + a 6kg Calor as back-up, with the latter only brought into play once in a blue moon. This is not a great deal of gas, and what regularly surprises me is just how much LPG people with refillable tanks/bottles cart around with them. Surely the rationale behind a refillable system (at least for most motorcaravanners) is that you exploit the potential to top up its capacity, not fill up a massive tank or a pair of hulking bottles to the brim before you take your motorhome on a trip and still have gas left at the end. It seems to me akin to fitting an enormous fuel tank to your motorhome that can contain enough diesel to last throughout a holiday, or fitting a 1000 gallon water tank. If I were to alter my present gas-system, I'd replace the composite bottle with a Stako one (probably the smallest available size as my Hobby's gas-locker isn't large) and retain the Calor back-up. The Stako bottle's 80% cut-off valve would simplify refilling and its integrated and accurate level-gauge would permit me to know when the need to refill approached. It used to be possible to refill Stako-type bottles by connecting the autogas pump directly to the bottle. This is what I do with my composite bottle and I'd quite like to continue using that technique. If that's not possible with current-design Stako containers, then I'd arrange for the refilling-point to be on a bracket within the locker itself. I've never encountered any resistance at service-stations when I've opened my motorhome's gas-locker door and attached an autogas pump to the refillable bottle inside. It's an illusion that, if you've got your gas-bottle refilling-point embedded in your motorhome's bodywork or on a bracket beneath the vehicle, it somehow makes you invisible so that 'they' won't be able to tell you are refilling 'domestic' bottles rather than a fuel tank. Ignoring bi-fuel RVs, motorhomes sidling up to an autogas pump will almost all be refilling a 'domestic' reservoir and, if UK-registered, the majority will be refilling bottles. Any service-station attendant seeking to be obstructive will know this, but I've yet to meet one who gave a hoot. A fixed tank such as Clive advocates would be vast overkill for me. I don't require the capacity, I don't want the weight penalty and I don't need the extra storage made available by freeing up the gas-locker. And I certainly don't want the financial outlay. The Gaslow concept makes a virtue of a necessity. The bottles themselves have no level-gauges and the supplementary pressure-sensing gauges marketed by Gaslow, while valuable for leak testing, are worthless for providing a reliable visual indication of how much gas remains in a bottle. To side-step the lack of a reliable means of knowing Gaslow-bottle contents two bottles are needed, plus an automatic change-over device to swap from the empty Gaslow bottle to the full one. I don't know why this seems to offend the technical side of my brain, but it does. I guess it's because the Stako bottle's ability to provide continuous feedback about its gas contents means I can imagine being able to live with a single bottle system, while the lack of a gauge on Gaslow containers means I think I'd be uncomfortable without going for the more complicated 2-bottle/changeover device arrangement. Probably being a control-freak has something to do with it too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 how much extra weight are we talking about? I just got what fitted in the locker. 2 x 11kg gaslow. Could have fitted the smaller ones i suppose. I do wait till the second bottle is half way through before filling the whole system, so it does get continually lighter with use. Are you saying even 2 x 6kg bottles would be an overkill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirralian Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Hi Maureend Like David Lloyd I would also say that installing refillable LPG bottle (my is a Gaslow) has been my best ever accessory for the 'van. I had one fitted 18 months ago as I already had a full propane Calor Gas bottle which I intended to replace when empty with another Gaslow bottle. I still have the Calor Gas bottle unused! It is just so convenient to keep topping up the Gaslow one. I installed my Gaslow bottle for convenience and did not expect to recoup the cost but I have come to realise how much I save by not having to pay for mains electricity alone. Earlier this year in Scotland we spent two nights on site but opted to be without mains electricity, relying entirely on gas. Because I have a medical problem with eating out all cooking is done in the van. Also, the heater was on for both nights. On the way to the site I topped up with autogas and on the way home from there I topped up again thinking of all that gas that had been used over the two days. The cost of that top-up? 97p! Cost of the hook up would have been over £2 a night. John Lewis (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 yes, i see the same kind of savings, and i think they will pay off in 5 years of use, then its a saving after this. Also, to add, i didnt have any bottles in the first place (first motorhome), so i'm not loosing out on any rentals on calor bottles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Hi, As I have stated previously, we have had ours for around three years and they are already in profit, bearing in mind I did my own installation. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 My problems with poor twin bottle installation has been aired on here previously.... I have been away for 2 long weekends, one week to Brittany and 4 weeks to Italy. and gauge on bottles has hardly moved. I really think these systems are only worthwhile for people who are getting away for long periods all year round. Otherwise a waste of money *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I don't consider it a waste of money Judge, to me its worth it for never having to lug a heavy bottle of gas across a site again. ;-) D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 mentaljudge, you went to Italy for 4 weeks and the gauge on your bottles hardly moved. Are you sure it isn't stuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 JudgeMental - 2007-08-22 1:38 PM I have been away for 2 long weekends, one week to Brittany and 4 weeks to Italy. and gauge on bottles has hardly moved. I really think these systems are only worthwhile for people who are getting away for long periods all year round. Otherwise a waste of money *-) Hi Judge, I would question the reliability of your guage mate, it isn't one of the Gaslow ones that shows Green, Yellow then Red is it? If it is be aware that they show green right up to the time the cylinders run dry and are really only of use as a pressure loss testing guage. Unless of course you ran mainly on electricity and did not use gas. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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