Math Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 2013 Chausson Suite Maxi on Fiat Ducato base. Hi all👋 I am in the process of switching our motorhome over to a Lithium house battery. I am installing a Victron Orion XS for the b2b charging, however the problem is I also need to somehow disconnect the original charging relay to stop it from charging the lithium battery.....whilst also keeping it connected to the fridge so the fridge still works whilst running the engine. This is all done through the Boite Relais Securite, of which there are 2. I believe 1 of these also provides the power to the control panel. Has anyone had any experience of this that they could share? I have attached the wiring diagram. The yellow circles being the relays and the red line being for the fridge, botted red as not sure which way it goes into the relay. Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Math. There have been a few discussions here relating to the CBE boite relais devices that Chausson/Challenger used to fit to their motorhomes in the past. GOOGLE-search on "boite relais securite" site:https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk but I'm doubtful that those forum threads would assist you with what you are seeking to do. Older Chausson motorhomes are relatively rare in the UK and I'm guessing that few (if any) of their owners will have chosen to swap the original wet-acid leisure batteries to lithium type. I note that you are based in the Netherlands and your best chance of getting practical help is probably by asking on French camping-car forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Hi Math, I am finding it very difficult to read most of the detail on your diagrams. Higher definition scans or photos would be required to allow magnification to a readable size. However I can make some general observations which may be of some help. The system uses a two terminal CBE DS300 without integral split charge relay, as this function may be performed by the red marked Boite de Securite, as it seems to connect with the Fiat 12V supply at the bottom left hand corner of the drawing. However lack of definition in the diagram prevents more than a guess. CBE practice is to connect the fridge to the B2 (habitation) side of the split charge relay via a relay on the PCB. Fridge output is normally at connector "D" or "15" in CBE manual, pins 2 & 3 in parallel. Only pin 3 is connected on your diagram. The split charge function may easily be disabled by removing the small connector on the appropriate relay. I suggest that this is done experimentally, and that B2 voltage is checked for no change when the engine is started. If successful, the above disconnection will leave the fridge draining the habitation battery. Adding the B2B will power the fridge via the B2B, which will take a significant part of the B2B output. My solution with a small B2B and CBE DS520 was to install an external relay for the fridge operated by the simulated D+ signal which is shown on your diagram. An alternative method, which is perhaps what you are seeking, is to disconnect the red marked Boite de Securite at the + B2 on the DS300, and also disconnect the fridge from connector D pin 3. Connect the two wires together and fit a 20A midi fuse to the Boite de Securite. which becomes the new fridge relay. All connections mentioned above are subject to checking against a more readable diagram Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 The Chausson wiring diagram shown below MAY be clearer. (The original is here) https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/2015-chausson-626-lighting-circuits.255880/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Derek, Thanks for the alternative diagram. I used the provided link to MH Fun, and obtained a readable presentation. Unfortunately the diagrams differ from that provided by Math. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 On 28/07/2024 at 08:13, Derek Uzzell said: Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Math. There have been a few discussions here relating to the CBE boite relais devices that Chausson/Challenger used to fit to their motorhomes in the past. GOOGLE-search on "boite relais securite" site:https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk but I'm doubtful that those forum threads would assist you with what you are seeking to do. Older Chausson motorhomes are relatively rare in the UK and I'm guessing that few (if any) of their owners will have chosen to swap the original wet-acid leisure batteries to lithium type. I note that you are based in the Netherlands and your best chance of getting practical help is probably by asking on French camping-car forums. Hi Derek, thanks for the reply and just to note I am actually based in Shetland but my vpn would have been connected through the Netherlands I'm assuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 (edited) 21 hours ago, Alanb said: Hi Math, I am finding it very difficult to read most of the detail on your diagrams. Higher definition scans or photos would be required to allow magnification to a readable size. However I can make some general observations which may be of some help. The system uses a two terminal CBE DS300 without integral split charge relay, as this function may be performed by the red marked Boite de Securite, as it seems to connect with the Fiat 12V supply at the bottom left hand corner of the drawing. However lack of definition in the diagram prevents more than a guess. CBE practice is to connect the fridge to the B2 (habitation) side of the split charge relay via a relay on the PCB. Fridge output is normally at connector "D" or "15" in CBE manual, pins 2 & 3 in parallel. Only pin 3 is connected on your diagram. The split charge function may easily be disabled by removing the small connector on the appropriate relay. I suggest that this is done experimentally, and that B2 voltage is checked for no change when the engine is started. If successful, the above disconnection will leave the fridge draining the habitation battery. Adding the B2B will power the fridge via the B2B, which will take a significant part of the B2B output. My solution with a small B2B and CBE DS520 was to install an external relay for the fridge operated by the simulated D+ signal which is shown on your diagram. An alternative method, which is perhaps what you are seeking, is to disconnect the red marked Boite de Securite at the + B2 on the DS300, and also disconnect the fridge from connector D pin 3. Connect the two wires together and fit a 20A midi fuse to the Boite de Securite. which becomes the new fridge relay. All connections mentioned above are subject to checking against a more readable diagram Alan Hi Alanb, Thanks for the reply, you have given me a few things to ponder on and I will explore them in more detail once I get a chance 👍 Unfortunately the diagrams I have posted are the only ones I have for my motorhome and were posted at the max resolution I have 🙄 Edited July 29 by Math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 22 hours ago, Alanb said: Hi Math, I am finding it very difficult to read most of the detail on your diagrams. Higher definition scans or photos would be required to allow magnification to a readable size. However I can make some general observations which may be of some help. The system uses a two terminal CBE DS300 without integral split charge relay, as this function may be performed by the red marked Boite de Securite, as it seems to connect with the Fiat 12V supply at the bottom left hand corner of the drawing. However lack of definition in the diagram prevents more than a guess. CBE practice is to connect the fridge to the B2 (habitation) side of the split charge relay via a relay on the PCB. Fridge output is normally at connector "D" or "15" in CBE manual, pins 2 & 3 in parallel. Only pin 3 is connected on your diagram. The split charge function may easily be disabled by removing the small connector on the appropriate relay. I suggest that this is done experimentally, and that B2 voltage is checked for no change when the engine is started. If successful, the above disconnection will leave the fridge draining the habitation battery. Adding the B2B will power the fridge via the B2B, which will take a significant part of the B2B output. My solution with a small B2B and CBE DS520 was to install an external relay for the fridge operated by the simulated D+ signal which is shown on your diagram. An alternative method, which is perhaps what you are seeking, is to disconnect the red marked Boite de Securite at the + B2 on the DS300, and also disconnect the fridge from connector D pin 3. Connect the two wires together and fit a 20A midi fuse to the Boite de Securite. which becomes the new fridge relay. All connections mentioned above are subject to checking against a more readable diagram Alan Out of interest I pulled the 3amp fuse indicated in the photo to see if this would stop the charging and if so what other effects it would cause. Yes it stops the charging to the house battery. It also, as far as I can tell, stops the AES from working on the fridge. I can however manually select 12v from the fridge panel and it starts to work and draws approximately 13amps from the house battery. The orion XS is a 50amp charger, so would still be able to charge at a theoretical 37amps. The fridge also shuts off when I turn off the ignition and therefore stops drawing from the house battery when the engine is off. Manually selecting the fridge setting when driving I can live with for the sake of the benefits of switching to Lithium. I just wonder if there are any other detrimental effects to the solution of just removing the fuse that I am overlooking? Math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 If you have an electric step or satellite dish fitted they may not auto retract now when the engine is started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 (edited) 9 hours ago, Labby said: If you have an electric step or satellite dish fitted they may not auto retract now when the engine is started. Thanks Labby, the step doesn't auto retract on it, it does set off an alarm though if the step is out when the engine is started, so I'll check that is still working tomorrow. No satellite dish to worry about 👍 Edited July 30 by Math Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 I doubt that the step warning will work without the simulated D+ fuse in place. You may not like this, but I would regard just removing the fuse as a bodged job. Why not take the trouble to identify which of the Boite Relais Securite functions as the split charge relay, and either unplug the control connection or remove the midi fuse from the two studs. One of the advantages of LiPO4 batteries is their ability to accept a continuous high rate of charge. Leaving the fridge supplied via the DS300 will, as you appreciate reduce the current available for battery charging. Further if as I expect, the B2B output voltage is higher than the alternator output, the fridge will draw proportionately more current from the available B2B output....... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 (edited) On 30/07/2024 at 10:30, Alanb said: I doubt that the step warning will work without the simulated D+ fuse in place. You may not like this, but I would regard just removing the fuse as a bodged job. Why not take the trouble to identify which of the Boite Relais Securite functions as the split charge relay, and either unplug the control connection or remove the midi fuse from the two studs. One of the advantages of LiPO4 batteries is their ability to accept a continuous high rate of charge. Leaving the fridge supplied via the DS300 will, as you appreciate reduce the current available for battery charging. Further if as I expect, the B2B output voltage is higher than the alternator output, the fridge will draw proportionately more current from the available B2B output....... Alan Thanks Alan for your thoughts on this. The 2 Boite Relais are separated pretty much by the length of the van, with 1 being behind the drivers seat and the other being on the back wall of the garage. I am pretty sure the charging is coming from the 1 behind the drivers seat, so I will look at removing the midi fuse from that 1 and see what the outcome is. Thanks for your suggestions they really are a help to me 👍 Mat Edited August 1 by Math 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 So today I removed the midi fuse from the boite relais at the front of the van and it seems to be the solution. The step alarm works fine, the fridge auto selection also works normally and it stops the charging of the house battery through the relais in favour of the newly installed Orion XS. Thanks again Alanb for your suggestions Mat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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