Payload

[Elaine1959]

I would like to purchase a Hymer B 674SL.  The dealer has stated a payload of 3500kg.  I checked on the DVLA website and it has 4250kg.  I know the latter requires a C1 licence.  I am about to relinquish my right to drive a C1 due to health restrictions and being fitted with a defibrillator.  My question is this, if the van says 3500 why does the DVLA state 4250?  I understand about weights etc but cannot understand the discrepancy between DVLA and manufacturer?

Thank you anyone for your help and a simple answer would be appreciated.

[david lloyd]

This figure isn’t the ‘payload’ but the vehicle gross weight - total weight of the vehicle when fully loaded with passengers, fuel, water, food, clothes etc. it cannot be exceeded.

There is always a weight plate on the vehicle (there may be more than one but the latest one is the one applicable) stating the MTPLM (gross weight) and then the individual axle weights. 
 

The motorhome chassis may originally have been ‘plated’ at 3500kg but the motorhome converter may well have upgraded this to ensure there is a suitable ‘payload’ for its use. 
 

im inclined to believe the DVLA as they will be using whatever is on the V5 registration document but the latest weight plate is the one you need to verify. It is often found under the bonnet in the engine bay but with an A class may be inside one of the doors.

David

[david lloyd]

Just to add to my post above. If the vehicle is plated at 4250kg it may well be possible to down plate it to 3500kg BUT - that would take 750kg of payload away and may mean the remaining payload could be insufficient for your needs.

David

[Keithl]

As it currently stands the DVLA weight figure is the one you MUST abide by as if you are stopped this is what will be taken into account.

Ask the dealer to take the MH to a local weighbridge and get a current weight ticket as it stands. Ask them to detail fuel level, driver or not, and any other accessories, etc, on the ticket and then you will get an idea of IF you can operate it at 3,500 kg if you where to have it downplated.

Also bear in mind as it is plated at 4,250 kg you cannot drive it on a Class B licence even if you kept the weight below 3,500 kg. It must be officially downplated to make it legal.

Keith.

[Elaine1959]

Thank you very much for the above information.  I did indeed ask the dealer to weighbridge the vehicle.  It came in at 3140.  Dvla will be informed and I guess, issue a new V5.

I think, when one purchases a Motorhome it should always be weighed and a new V5 issued if necessary.  I have noted many posts where people have bought vehicles that they cannot drive without a C1 license.  

[Keithl]

15 minutes ago, Elaine1959 said:

 I did indeed ask the dealer to weighbridge the vehicle.  It came in at 3140. 

Do you know how it was loaded at the time?

If this did not include a driver and say a full tank of fuel then this will be very tight on weight to operate with two passengers plus luggage, fuel, water, and any other accessories you wish to carry.

 

15 minutes ago, Elaine1959 said:

Dvla will be informed and I guess, issue a new V5.

I think, when one purchases a Motorhome it should always be weighed and a new V5 issued if necessary. 

Unfortunately I doubt DVLA will issue a new V5C without an engineers report stating it can be operated legally at the new weight rating.

You may have to contact the likes of SV Tech to get it officially downplated.

https://www.svtech.co.uk/vehicles/motorhomes/

Keith.

[david lloyd]

In addition, you will need another weight plate showing the new MTPLM and that is something the likes of SV Tech can issue - with luck you won’t need to do anything to the van and it should be a paper exercise. As Keith says, depending on what was weighed with the van at the time, 360 kg of payload is not a lot. I weigh 100kg and 100 litres of water weighs the same.

You may need to consider what you wish to carry carefully.

David

[Derek Uzzell]

Hymer has used the B674 motorhome model-number repeatedly across the years and it might be helpful to know when the one Elaine is interested in was built.

This Auto-Trader extract shows three B674 models - a 2004, a 2008 and a 2019.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/motorhomes/used-motorhomes/hymer/b674

The 2004 and 2008 are much the same size  with the 2004's MTPLM (Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass) given as 3900kg and the 2008's as 3500kg. The 2019's MTPLM is not given, but this is a significantly larger vehicle than the 2004 and 2008, so its MTPLM will almost certainly be well above 3500kg.

Although the DVLA are not infallible, if the DVLA has recorded a MTPLM of 4250kg for the B674 Elaine is interested in, the likelihood is that this is the weight-value they have been 'told' to record and not a figure that has been pulled out of thin air. It's also the case that 4250kg is a common MTPLM value for a Fiat-based motorhome built on a Ducato 'Maxi' chassis.

It may be that the MTPLM of Elaine's B674 was originally 4250kg and has been 'down-plated' to 3500kg, but the DVLA has not been advised of this. Or it originally had an MTPLM of 3500kg that was 'up-plated' to 4250kg at some stage and the DVLA was advised of this. It would be worth checking the motorhome's V5C to see which tax-class is shown (P/LG or P/HGV) as that might be significant, but - as Elaine won't have a C1 driving licence entitlement - she definitely wants to be certain that the motorhome genuinely has a MTPLM of 3500kg.

[Keithl]

I suspect the MH dealer will have looked at the original 'First stage' VIN plate affixed by Fiat which will almost certainly have stated a MTPLM (GVW) of 3,500 kg. This would then have been superseded by the 'Second stage' Hymer VIN plate where it would likely have been increased to 4,250 kg.

@Elaine1959 Have you actually seen this MH in the flesh or can you go and see it? If yes then look for the Hymer VIN plate and see what MTPLM is stated. If not ask the dealer for a photo of both the Fiat and Hymer VIN plates.

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

I'm very doubtful that any Hymer motorhome with a '1st stage' MTPLM of 3500kg would ever have a '2nd Stage' (or '3rd Stage') MTPLM of 4250kg.

There could be a 2nd or 3rd Stage increase from 3500kg to 3650kg, or maybe to 3900kg, but 3500kg relates to a Ducato 'light chassis' and 4250kg to a Ducato 'heavy chassis'.
 

I also believe Hymer would never start out with a Ducato 4250kg 'heavy' chassis and then market it with a 3500kg MTPLM option.

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2023 MotorHomeFun thread may be of interest.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-b698sl-weight.286915/

The discussion deals with a Hymer B698 (as usual its age is not stated!!!)

Its construction will have involved 3 stages - Stufe 1, Stufe 2 and Stufe 3.

Stufe 1 relates to the provision of a Fiat Ducato chassis-cowl and there should be a data-plate on that chassis showing its MTPLM and other weight maxima. Stufe 2 relates to that chassis-cowl being modified by the addition of an AL-KO ladder-frame rear chassis with independent suspension. The AL-KO Stufe 2 data-plate photo in the thread's 3rd posting shows a MTPLM of 3500kg, so it can be safely assumed that the Fiat Stufe 1 data-plate also showed a 3500kg MTPLM.

Stufe 3 was the Hymer final conversion stage and (based on the information in the thread's 1st posting) Hymer would have affixed a Stufe 3 data-plate to the motorhome and that data-plate showed an MTPLM increase from 3500kg to 3850kg and a front-axle maximum-load increase from 1850kg to 2000kg.

The VIN-number on the AL-KO data-plate indicates that the B698 motorhome being discussed had a post-2006 Ducato base and I'm guessing it was built in the 2006-2010 period, when (like B674 models) B698s were relatively compact. More recent B698s (and B674s) are bigger and more obese with a MPTLM of at least 4250kg.

[Elaine1959]

Thank you everyone.

I think I have decided to forego an A class and look at B class where I am more likely able to find a vehicle already complying with DVLA and on the V5.  I have indeed looked and found that you also get better value for money too.  

I had a Hymer 644 some years back and loved the open panoramic windows, plus it was ultra comfortable.  Those days have gone and one must come to earth with a bump.

Thank you everyone.

[Derek Uzzell]

There's still plenty of potential for a 'coachbuilt' (B class) motorhome to be incorrectly DVLA-registered weight-wise.

I owned a 6.49 metres long 2015 Rapido 640F B-class that was marketed new with a MTPLM of 3500kg (UK B driving-licence entitlement) or 3650kg (UK C1 driving-licence entitlement) at no extra cost. But the slightly larger (6.99m) Rapido 680F B-class  was marketed with a MTPLM of 3500kg or 3650kg (same price for both) or (at a significantly higher cost) a MTPLM of 4.25kg or 4400kg.

Rapido also marketed their Series 8 A-class range similarly, with the 850F equating to the 640F regarding MTPLM and the 855F equating to the  680F.

The DVLA will initially register a motorhome based on the information they are given by the vendor, who will normally have been a dealership or - if the motorhome has been imported - by the importer. And, if the information is incorrect and the owner is oblivious to this or doesn't care, the DVLA's records will not be updated.

To further complicate matters, the UK's regulations allow the DVLA to be pretty laid-back when it comes to increasing or decreasing  a motorhome's MTPLM and, once again, whatever the DVLA records about a MTPLM modification (right or wrong) will not alter until the DVLA receives a further notification.

New A-class motorhomes cost more than B-class equivalents and attract an asking-price premium secondhand for the qualities you found with the Hymer 644. You wiil (should) pay less for a B-class motorhome, but you won't have the A-class attributes that make them desirable.

Whatever motorhome you eventually decide on, as it's critical that the vehicle can legally be driven on a  'car' (B) driving-licence entitlement, be very very careful that the MTPLM information on the vehicle's V5C and on its data plates match.

[ColinM50]

I think you need to be very careful taking this weight problem seriously. If the Hymer is plated at 4,250, your insurance won't be valid if you don't have C1 on your driving licence and potentially the police could seize the vehicle because you're not driving a vehicle in accordance with your licence and they COULD confiscate and crush it