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Antifreeze
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userMickydripin
Posted: 14 September 2020 4:24 PM
Subject: Antifreeze
 
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Just had a shock checking my radiator water level in the header tank and find that the water is clear and should be blue or red.
I went through last winter with no antifreeze in what a stroke of luck that last winter was very mild.
It say's in my handbook that the antifreeze colour should be blue or red and should not be mixed under any circumstances does anybody know which one I should use and what make.
My camper is a 2004 Fiat Ducato 15

Edited by Mickydripin 2020-09-14 4:26 PM
usercoach2000
Posted: 14 September 2020 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 
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My 2006 Ducato 2.8JTD has always had the orange.

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userKeithl
Posted: 14 September 2020 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Get yourself a cheap antifreeze tester and confirm whether or not you have any antifreeze in the system.

https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/all-hand-tools/laser-antifreeze-tester-686778.html

As an example Ford used colourless antifreeze for many years.

Keith.
userJohn52
Posted: 14 September 2020 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Get a hydrometer as suggested.
I think you will find its got some in or the water would be brown with rust.
My understanding is that the anti freeze doesn't wear out, but the corrosion protection does.
Hence the advice to change it, but if you don't bleed the system properly you can do more harm than good, so its probably best left alone if its got some in.
Red lasts longer than blue, how long depends on the type of metals used in the engine that its protecting.
Antifreeze manufacturers suggest 2 years for blue, 5 years for red.
But vehicle manufacturers may be able to advise longer, because they know what metals they used in the engine.
My van is 12 years old with red coolant that has never been changed.
userPaul-
Posted: 15 September 2020 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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My Ford has red antifreeze as recommended by Ford, I think you should have blue but check with a dealer and make sure you use a demineralised water or equivalent, not tap water.

Edited by Paul- 2020-09-15 8:53 AM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 September 2020 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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The radiator antifreeze recommended in the Ducato Owner Handbook that should be relevant to Mike’s motorhome is as shown in the image attached below.

(There’s a warning that the two fluids should NOT be mixed together.)




(antifreeze.png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments antifreeze.png (57KB - 3 downloads)
userBruceM
Posted: 15 September 2020 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 
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Paul- - 2020-09-15 8:53 AM
make sure you use a demineralised water or equivalent, not tap water.


Why? I’ve not seen that recommendation from anti-freeze manufacturers.
userKeithl
Posted: 15 September 2020 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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BruceM - 2020-09-15 10:01 AM
Paul- - 2020-09-15 8:53 AM
make sure you use a demineralised water or equivalent, not tap water.

Why? I’ve not seen that recommendation from anti-freeze manufacturers.


It is more applicable if you live in a hard water area but the minerals in the water settle out and block the lower tubes of the radiator reducing its efficiency.

In some overseas markets with very poor water quality water (eg the Middle East where water is de-salinated sea water) antifreeze is sold at the correct concentration and ready to use.

Keith.
userPaul-
Posted: 15 September 2020 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Keithl - 2020-09-15 10:22 AM

BruceM - 2020-09-15 10:01 AM
Paul- - 2020-09-15 8:53 AM
make sure you use a demineralised water or equivalent, not tap water.

Why? I’ve not seen that recommendation from anti-freeze manufacturers.


It is more applicable if you live in a hard water area but the minerals in the water settle out and block the lower tubes of the radiator reducing its efficiency.

In some overseas markets with very poor water quality water (eg the Middle East where water is de-salinated sea water) antifreeze is sold at the correct concentration and ready to use.

Keith.


What Keith said, a lot of people use it in the iron at home to stop that clogging up.
usercolin
Posted: 15 September 2020 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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BruceM - 2020-09-15 10:01 AM

Paul- - 2020-09-15 8:53 AM
make sure you use a demineralised water or equivalent, not tap water.


Why? I’ve not seen that recommendation from anti-freeze manufacturers.


It only really applies if you are having to regularly top up, the first engine manufacturers I know of to recommend this where RR aero engines.
userJohn52
Posted: 15 September 2020 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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depends how hard your water is and how often you have to top up.
Clogged radiators was far more common in the days before sealed cooling systens, when you had to top the water up far more often.
userBasil
Posted: 16 September 2020 10:00 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 
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Or better still go for a waterless coolant, seems costly compared to anti freeze but it is so much better for the engine and components and in variable weather conditions. Once in use you won't need to change or top up, one of the best products I now use in all my vehicles.
See
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/

Bas
usercolin
Posted: 16 September 2020 11:54 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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For anyone keeping a vehicle for any length of time waterless is the way to go, it's basically a form of pure antifreeze. Running aero engines we have been using high concentrations of long life antifreeze for quite a few years and the reduction in corrosion has been very noticeable compared to those who use standard concentrations.
userJohn52
Posted: 17 September 2020 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Maximum recommended concentration is usually 50:50 antifreeze to water
Above that it does more harm than good
explained here;
https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Car-cooling-system/Refilling-coolant-2708/
usercolin
Posted: 17 September 2020 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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John52 - 2020-09-17 12:10 PM

Maximum recommended concentration is usually 50:50 antifreeze to water
Above that it does more harm than good
explained here;
https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Car-cooling-system/Refilling-coolant-2708/


If you read the link you will see that the maximum recommended mix for standard anti freeze is 40water to 60 anti freeze, for engines that need it (but not usually recommended by manufacturers) this gives very good protection from corrosion.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 18 September 2020 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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The technical description of the PARAFLU UP antifreeze recommended by Fiat (my posting of 15 September 2020 9:33 AM above) advises that it must be diluted with 50% water.
userJohn52
Posted: 18 September 2020 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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colin - 2020-09-17 6:41 PM

John52 - 2020-09-17 12:10 PM

Maximum recommended concentration is usually 50:50 antifreeze to water
Above that it does more harm than good
explained here;
https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Car-cooling-system/Refilling-coolant-2708/


If you read the link you will see that the maximum recommended mix for standard anti freeze is 40water to 60 anti freeze, for engines that need it (but not usually recommended by manufacturers) this gives very good protection from corrosion.


Raising the anti freeze content makes it less effective at cooling.
60:40 could be for arctic countries with no concerns about overheating?
I've always been told maximum 50%
(Since Britain, being surrounded by water, doesn't get very cold, most people I know use less than that - typically 25% - 33%)
usercolin
Posted: 18 September 2020 6:09 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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John52 - 2020-09-18 5:53 PM

colin - 2020-09-17 6:41 PM

John52 - 2020-09-17 12:10 PM

Maximum recommended concentration is usually 50:50 antifreeze to water
Above that it does more harm than good
explained here;
https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Car-cooling-system/Refilling-coolant-2708/


If you read the link you will see that the maximum recommended mix for standard anti freeze is 40water to 60 anti freeze, for engines that need it (but not usually recommended by manufacturers) this gives very good protection from corrosion.


Raising the anti freeze content makes it less effective at cooling.
60:40 could be for arctic countries with no concerns about overheating?
I've always been told maximum 50%
(Since Britain, being surrounded by water, doesn't get very cold, most people I know use less than that - typically 25% - 33%)


There is no overheating on a engine with a 60:40 mix, the engine block itself might be slightly hotter, although we haven't found any problems with head temperatures at the spark plug. The increased boiling temperatures mean that even if the engine ran slightly hotter ,which we've found no evidence of, it would still not boil up. But as I posted, it's only really worthwhile on engines prone to corrosion, i.e. those with a mix of metals in the water ways.
userPaul-
Posted: 18 September 2020 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Demineralised water or whatever the label says is also good in the windscreen washers, unless you like the white streaks calcium deposits leave.
userJohn52
Posted: 19 September 2020 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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colin - 2020-09-16 11:54 PM

For anyone keeping a vehicle for any length of time waterless is the way to go, it's basically a form of pure antifreeze.


But pure antifreeze is not recommended
This is the point I was trying to make
userJohn52
Posted: 19 September 2020 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Paul- - 2020-09-18 7:45 PM


Demineralised water or whatever the label says is also good in the windscreen washers, unless you like the white streaks calcium deposits leave.


I found limescale could block the water jets - till I started using water from a filter jug, and have had no problems since.
usercolin
Posted: 19 September 2020 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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John52 - 2020-09-19 9:46 AM

colin - 2020-09-16 11:54 PM

For anyone keeping a vehicle for any length of time waterless is the way to go, it's basically a form of pure antifreeze.


But pure antifreeze is not recommended
This is the point I was trying to make


Waterless coolant is a "form of antifreeze" specifically formulated to be used neat in vehicle coolant systems, it can be watered down where it acts like standard antifreeze, but that is not recommended.
userlancepar
Posted: 19 September 2020 2:11 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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Couple of things.

A sample of coolant put in a freezer will indicate if anti-freeze is present.

I use the the water from a de-humidifier in the mix and it is called condensate.

HTH

userPaul-
Posted: 19 September 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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I keep gin in the freezer and tonic in the fridge

but thats going off topic
userJohn52
Posted: 20 September 2020 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Antifreeze
 


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colin - 2020-09-19 12:11 PM

John52 - 2020-09-19 9:46 AM

colin - 2020-09-16 11:54 PM

For anyone keeping a vehicle for any length of time waterless is the way to go, it's basically a form of pure antifreeze.


But pure antifreeze is not recommended
This is the point I was trying to make


Waterless coolant is a "form of antifreeze" specifically formulated to be used neat in vehicle coolant systems, it can be watered down where it acts like standard antifreeze, but that is not recommended.


I just go by the vehicle manufacturers recommendations because I don't know better than them
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