You are logged in as a guest. 
  Home Forums Home  Search our Forums Search our Forums    Log in to the Forums Log in to the Forums  register Register on the Forums  

 Forums ->  Motorhomes -> Motorhome Matters
Jump to page : First 1 Last
Format:  Go
BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
AuthorMessage
useraandncaravan
Posted: 29 August 2018 4:33 PM
Subject: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Sorry about the capital letters, but I just had to shout this out, I have taken so much stick in the past about our condemnation of AGM batteries in motorhomes.

Just been told about a recent notice on the Roadpro website stating -

"Banner Running Bull AGM batteries are NOT suitable for use as leisure batteries in motorhomes or caravans. They are designed specifically for use as engine starter batteries for START/STOP vehicles with regenerative braking systems.

See : https://www.roadpro.co.uk/catalogue/02b03-banner-running-bull-agm-batteries


You may remember Hymer and Banner rolling these out as Leisure batteries in vast numbers a few years ago and we reported seeing multiple premature failures and said they are not suitable?


Alleluia!!!




Edited by aandncaravan 2018-08-29 4:36 PM
userBillggski
Posted: 29 August 2018 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1881
1000500100100100252525


This needs wider audience.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/95ah-banner-agm-running-bull-leisure-battery-59201/
useraandncaravan
Posted: 29 August 2018 4:47 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Billigski, well the NCC know more about batteries than Banner, so you are probably right to flag up the battery is approved by the NCC for use in Motorhomes.
The NCC think it is so good they rate it as one of the best batteries for use as a Leisure battery!!!!


Or is that another example of the NCC verified scheme letting itself down again?


As you point out, Alpha batteries do a good job of warning people not to use AGM batteries if their charging sytems doesn't support it by posting in the advert -

"Please ensure your charging method can accommodate AGM batteries as charging at non AGM charge settings can adversely affect the life of the battery. Please contact us if you are unsure".


Shame the NCC don't offer such a warning.



Keith, Thank you, but you know me I am happy for you to edit to fit in with the rules.
Just got carried away when someone emailed the news.




Edited by aandncaravan 2018-08-29 5:04 PM
userKeithl
Posted: 29 August 2018 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Forum master

Posts: 4699
20002000500100252525
Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


Allan,

I would normally tell you off for shouting on the forum but in this case WELL DONE!!!

I have always had my doubts about some of the battery marketing hype and bought one of the first Exide LFD90 batteries when they where released basically on the recommendations of this forum.

Please, on behalf of all the forum members, keep up the good work for as long as you are able, we really do appreciate it.

Keith.
userBrock
Posted: 29 August 2018 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
10005001001002525
Location: Wirral - 2013 Hymer BClass 504 130bhp


Well done, Allan. I remember the Hymer Banner AGM battery I had in my motorhome. It lasted just under 20 months before it failed at the 2015 Peterborough Show. I remember the Banner stand doing a good trade in AGMs at the show. Diamond Dave [Dave Newell Leisure Services], who was the technician for the show, refused to replace like with like in my van.
usercolin
Posted: 29 August 2018 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 7554
500020005002525
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


That's strange as Banner still recommend them as their preferred leisure battery for Motorhomes and Caravans, so it appears RoadPro are doing this from experience and not manufactures recommendations.
useraandncaravan
Posted: 29 August 2018 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Colin, Then we need to agree to disagree, because this Banner web page doesn't mention anything about Leisure/motorhome use : https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-gb/Products/Starter-Batteries/Running-Bull-AGM/4-AGM-592-01

It is all about Stop/Start, just like the Roadpro pages.


If you go on other Banner pages, the website specifically mentions that EFB, not AGM, are the technology of the moment and all new Leisure batteries are EFB.


The only reference to it being a Leisure battery is the NCC verified scheme - top line on their chart :

"Banner 59201 27 354 175 190 92 350 NCC reference NCC/VB/A/006"



Edited by aandncaravan 2018-08-29 8:00 PM
usercolin
Posted: 29 August 2018 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 7554
500020005002525
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


aandncaravan - 2018-08-29 7:46 PM

Colin, Then we need to agree to disagree, because this Banner web page doesn't mention anything about Leisure/motorhome use : https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-gb/Products/Starter-Batteries/Running-Bull-AGM/4-AGM-592-01

It is all about Stop/Start, just like the Roadpro pages.


If you go on other Banner pages, the website specifically mentions that EFB, not AGM, are the technology of the moment and all new Leisure batteries are EFB.


The only reference to it being a Leisure battery is the NCC verified scheme - top line on their chart :

"Banner 59201 27 354 175 190 92 350 NCC reference NCC/VB/A/006"



Looking again I see the AGM is for starting batteries for motorhomes. I had brought up the page and not read it, but looked at the photo's.
https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-gb/Battery-search/Mobile-Homes


useraandncaravan
Posted: 30 August 2018 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Colin, that is a confusing page, no wonder you thought that.

It is also a bit confusing that the Battery Label shows a picture of a Motorhome. That is obviously to show it can be fitted under the bonnet of a Motorhome, but not as clear as it should be.

Maybe I need to look at the symbols as part of our National Battery labelling campaign, possibly using different colours for Motorhome 'under bonnet' use versus Habitation area power? http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php

Edited by aandncaravan 2018-08-30 7:37 AM
userBillggski
Posted: 30 August 2018 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1881
1000500100100100252525


The link I put up for alpha batteries definitely says its a leisure battery for motorhomes.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/95ah-banner-agm-running-bull-leisure-battery-59201/
userHymerVan
Posted: 30 August 2018 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Lives on the forums

Posts: 521
500
Location: North Scotland


Allan thanks in part to your efforts I understand the different needs of "vehicle" and "habitation" batteries.
On the Alpha site there is a link to download a datasheet. The datasheet is long and covers a number of batteries with different names and technologies but if you scroll quite far down you come to the "Energy Bull" which is said to be a leisure battery (and is the one I have in my 2017 van although the convertors now use a different brand). There is no indication of the construction type on the Alpha datasheet or their website.
On the Road Pro site "Energy Bull" are still sold and promoted as leisure batteries.

I THINK you may have said in the past that "Running Bull" and "Energy Bull" are essentially the same which does not take away from the significance of the Roadpro declaration as regards the "Running Bull" battery.
In short I am slightly confused and I apologise for not trawling through earlier posts which probably contain the answer.

Thank you very much indeed for your efforts and on a personal note I hope you are as well and as comfortable as you can be.
userHymerVan
Posted: 30 August 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Lives on the forums

Posts: 521
500
Location: North Scotland



Allan I am quoting my own post so I can correct myself as it were.
I have looked at the other thread and I see that you say quite clearly that "Energy Bull" is indeed a "starter" battery with a different label.
Having also seen the latest update on your health I am very sorry not to have done my homework before putting finger to keyboard. So what I think it amounts to is that Roadpro have (indirectly) acknowledged that "Energy Bull" batteries are unsuitable.

All the best

Laurence
PS don't seem to have actually quoted but this refers to my own post directly above.

Edited by HymerVan 2018-08-30 11:50 AM
useraandncaravan
Posted: 30 August 2018 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Billggski - 2018-08-30 7:46 AM

The link I put up for alpha batteries definitely says its a leisure battery for motorhomes.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/95ah-banner-agm-running-bull-leisure-battery-59201/



Been talking to a few people today and it seems that many have been caught out by the announcement from Banner.
It might take a while for the retailers to update their online systems, but Alpha are aware.



Incidentally, Alpha have this very afternoon become Yuasa Dealers as part of their move more into quality, more cost effective batteries.
They soon hope to have stocks of the Yuasa L36-EFB.


They will still market the budgets for those who want them, but the sales desk have being educated to give more realistic assessments than customers have previously been used to from other retailers by 'talking them down', not up.
The budgets usually generate a higher profit margin, so it may be hard to break old habits, but at least they are committed to trying.



Edited by aandncaravan 2018-08-30 5:29 PM
useraandncaravan
Posted: 30 August 2018 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


HymerVan - 2018-08-30 11:04 AM

Allan thanks in part to your efforts I understand the different needs of "vehicle" and "habitation" batteries.
On the Alpha site there is a link to download a datasheet. The datasheet is long and covers a number of batteries with different names and technologies but if you scroll quite far down you come to the "Energy Bull" which is said to be a leisure battery (and is the one I have in my 2017 van although the convertors now use a different brand). There is no indication of the construction type on the Alpha datasheet or their website.
On the Road Pro site "Energy Bull" are still sold and promoted as leisure batteries.

I THINK you may have said in the past that "Running Bull" and "Energy Bull" are essentially the same which does not take away from the significance of the Roadpro declaration as regards the "Running Bull" battery.
In short I am slightly confused and I apologise for not trawling through earlier posts which probably contain the answer.

Thank you very much indeed for your efforts and on a personal note I hope you are as well and as comfortable as you can be.




Thank you, yes I am actually feeling better than before I started my Chemotherapy, I think the additional medication, Steroids, etc might be a factor?


The Running Bull and Energy Bull are two very different batteries. The Running Bull is an AGM and suited to Stop Start cars.

The Energy Bull is an old fashioned wet acid battery Leisure battery which can be quite good at Deep Cycling if it is given TLC over and above a normal battery.
It has one of the highest fluid loss and self discharge rates of any modern battery. They don't like Solar or long term EHU connection.
It tends to have a shorter than average life.


It is only the Running Bull AGM battery that was 'incorrectly' rolled out in 2013 that is the subject of this Post.






Edited by aandncaravan 2018-08-30 5:27 PM
userRayjsj
Posted: 31 August 2018 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Forum master

Posts: 3664
200010005001002525
Location: Way out West (Wales) 2014 Autotrail V line 600


Dont know whether my FAILED Banner Batteries were running bull, raging bull or sitting bull but whatever they failed early( in my estimation). One became so hot that the casing nearly melted and the acid in the air was choking and probably very dangerous to health.....let alone explosive ! These were well looked after, always topped up with de-ionised water and with vent pipes outside the van (otherwise the stench would have been worse).
This was in an Autotrail 2014 motorhome with Sargent charger and 100watt solar panel. Set to 'smart' charging ! I thought the definition of Smart meant IT would take care of the batteries....all I had to do was keep them topped up !.............Wrong.


Edited by Rayjsj 2018-08-31 8:15 AM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 31 August 2018 8:48 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


50005000500010005001001002525
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Rayjsj

Your Banner batteries (mentioned in your postings on this 2016 thread)

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Banner-Batteries-Knackered-After-6-Months/40167/

would have been non-AGM “Energy Bull” batteries as you were able to check and ‘maintain’ their electrolyte-level.

Banner’s “Running Bull” AGM battery range was also marketed outside the UK under the name “Power Bull” and aimed at luxury cars (eg. VW’s “Phaeton”) that had heavy electrical demands. (In fact, I believe some top-end Phaetons had a pair of large Banner AGM batteries located in the boot.) When branded “Power Bull” there was no suggestion that it would be a good choice as a motorhome habitation battery.
userRayjsj
Posted: 31 August 2018 9:51 PM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 


Forum master

Posts: 3664
200010005001002525
Location: Way out West (Wales) 2014 Autotrail V line 600


Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-31 8:48 AM

Rayjsj

Your Banner batteries (mentioned in your postings on this 2016 thread)

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Banner-Batteries-Knackered-After-6-Months/40167/

would have been non-AGM “Energy Bull” batteries as you were able to check and ‘maintain’ their electrolyte-level.

Banner’s “Running Bull” AGM battery range was also marketed outside the UK under the name “Power Bull” and aimed at luxury cars (eg. VW’s “Phaeton”) that had heavy electrical demands. (In fact, I believe some top-end Phaetons had a pair of large Banner AGM batteries located in the boot.) When branded “Power Bull” there was no suggestion that it would be a good choice as a motorhome habitation battery.


Thanks Derek, must be getting old, repeating myself.
Thanks Derek, must be getting old, repeating myself, myself
useraandncaravan
Posted: 5 September 2018 1:45 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Billggski - 2018-08-30 7:46 AM

The link I put up for alpha batteries definitely says its a leisure battery for motorhomes.

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/95ah-banner-agm-running-bull-leisure-battery-59201/



Just been told that, following conformation from Banner, the Alpha Batteries web site has been updated to remove 'Leisure' from the description of the AGM advert, so that should now be correct.

Alpha have already started adding more Technical Information and Downloads to the website sales pages so people are better informed ready for the move to our new hoped for National Labelling Standard.

One very poor battery that is a good example of how the extra Alpha Batteries information helps everyone, is this Platinum LB6110L Battery : https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/110-ah-platinum-low-height-leisure-battery-lb6110l/
It is rated at a poor 70 cycles yet costs £109.

Versus one of the best in the Class, the Varta LFD90 : https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/
with 200+ cycles at £105


So a "Life Time" comparison can now be done to show the 'Budget' Platinum will require three batteries to be purchased over time to match a single Varta, or £327 for the Platinum 'Budget' option versus £105 for quality.


So to you Mr Stephens who emailed yesterday - "What's this thing with batteries, they are all the same."

Are they, really? Between you and me Mr Stephens, the Platinum won't even make 60 cycles, Alpha have to go by what the manufacturer say, and we know from recent events, they are not always honest.

You can probably tell that from it's description on the label this
'Leisure PLUS', with
"Extra Long Life,
40% extra power,
Frequent Traveller +, etc",
does make some bold claims and does seem to use some extreme marketing for a battery with less than 60 cycles?
The model name of LB6110L, deliberately used to portray this as a 110Ah battery, might be another clue to the quality you get?

Thank goodness for the NCC verified scheme, it would never allow a battery with such wayward marketing into the scheme.
In fact the scheme even bans manufacturers from using names that confuse, see section 4.1.4 in the Schemes Details Document -
"4.1.4 Model numbers that can be confused with capacity, i.e. 12V110, shall not be used".

So we are safe.........................
Sorry, it is in the scheme? What you mean it has been Verified by the NCC despite it's own guidelines saying it shouldn't and with such a gross mis-description.
Oh yes top of page 6?

Oh well I must have got it wrong that this just a Starter battery.

But anyway, Mr Stephens, take no notice of my evaluations, Alpha Batteries are creating informative Sales pages where you can do your own comparisons.


Alpha will go on offering 'Budgets' for those who want them as they need to compete in the market, they are the first we have seen to list the Platinum with anywhere near it's true frailty.




Edited by aandncaravan 2018-09-05 2:15 AM




(Platinum LB6110L small.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Platinum LB6110L small.jpg (55KB - 66 downloads)
useraandncaravan
Posted: 5 September 2018 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: BANNER AGM BATTERIES ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR MOTORHOMES - OFFICIAL
 
Forum master

Posts: 2245
200010010025
Location: Conwy, North Wales


Someone has just emailed to ask if we are now tied up in some way with Alpha Batteries and rereading the above I can see why. But we are not linked in any way shape or form.

They are just adopting our Idea to create a National Battery 'Traffic Light style' Labelling Standard with the aim of creating a web site that answers all the questions anyone might have to make a valid comparison between products in an ethical way.
They believe that serving the customers better will be want we all want so give them a competitive edge from your support.
So while there is obviously a financial interest on their part, everyone benefits.

I genuinely believe they mean to be different to the normal web sales companies and our 'Campaign For More Honesty' in the Battery market place will support them, until it transpires otherwise, more info here on this recently heavily updated webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php


Can I say thank you to Warners/MMM.



Edited by aandncaravan 2018-09-05 9:12 AM
Jump to page : First 1 Last
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Jump to forum :


(Delete all cookies set by this site)(Return to Homepage)

Any problems? Contact the administrator