Calor Gas Abroad

[_Chris]

I'm planning on visiting France & Spain next year and wondered if Calor gas is available in these countries?

 

My van takes a 6kg cylinder and I have no idea if a full one will last for a month & there is no room for a spare. I have a small portable camping gas burner and a few spare canisters of gas that I carry just in case. I believe that electric hook up is less common in France & Spain.

 

How do others manage?

[johnval]

Calor gas not available abroad. Suggest fitting a refillable bottle such as Gas it.

[witzend]

_Chris - 2020-10-17 10:17 AM

 

I'm planning on visiting France & Spain next year and wondered if Calor gas is available in these countries?

 

How do others manage?

 

No Calor available outside the UK but gas bottles are easily available in France / Spain most supermarket garages sell them but you'll need a different pig tail or regulator to connect to the bottle. Continental gas is all I ever use its half the price of Calor

EHU is available on sites but you may need a longer lead than normal and expect it to be driven over so best to have a long cable with out a joint in the middle

[Robinhood]

As already stated, EHU is widely available on campsites in France and Spain (less so on Aires, but still available if you choose carefully).

 

The main consumers of gas are fridge when not on hook-up, and heating if used. You will normally find that EHU provides enough capacity to run a fridge, but possibly not a fan heater.

 

Without such use, and depending on your culinary arrangements, a full 6kg cylinder might well see you through a month, though you might be sweating with no reserve. (My experience of gas use "en famille" when the kids were with us would support that view).

 

Buying a local bottle is one solution (though might be inconvenient in changing countries, and having nowhere to store an extra bottle), installing a refillable is another (though expensive in initial outlay).

 

Traditionally, one way of circumventing the problem was to use the larger capacity Campingaz bottle. This is only 2.75kg capacity, and restricted to butane rather than propane, but is widely exchangeable through Europe. It is an expensive way to buy the contents compared with other bottles, but overcomes some of the practical difficulties. (You'd normally require a cheap adapter to connect to your regulator).

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2018 forum link deals generally with gas-related options abroad

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/GAS-IN-EUROPE/48534/

 

And this refers to France specifically

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-in-France/50259/

 

Besides the already-mentioned potential requirement for long 230V hook-up cables, it's still reasonably common in France for a France-norm connection adapter to be needed. Relatively low amperage (say 6A) power supplies are also not that rare, as is 'reverse polarity' - though nowadays this seems to be of much less concern to UK motorcaravanners than in the past. (Link below for background information.)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/reverse-polairty/48518/

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

_Chris - 2020-10-17 10:17 AM

 

I'm planning on visiting France & Spain next year and wondered if Calor gas is available in these countries?

 

My van takes a 6kg cylinder and I have no idea if a full one will last for a month & there is no room for a spare. I have a small portable camping gas burner and a few spare canisters of gas that I carry just in case. I believe that electric hook up is less common in France & Spain.

 

How do others manage?

As others have said above electricity is widely available on sites in France and Spain, although you may need a spare 25M hook up lead on a few sites. However, if choosing to use sites in "off the beaten track" areas you may find that the number of pitches with readily available EHU is limited - hence the advice to carry a spare lead. Also as above, you may find Amperages limited - I think the lowest we have encountered was 3A.

 

Have you explored the Flogas 11kg cylinder to see if that might fit. Your Calor 6kg propane cylinder is 495h x 256 dia, whereas the Flogas 11kg is 560h x 310 dia. So a shade over 2" greater diameter, and 2.5" taller, which gets you an extra 5kg of gas - if it will fit.

 

LPG cylinders are widely available at supermarkets, especially rural ones. However, the type of pigtail is likely to differ from the UK standard propane connector. In France you should find that a UK Butane connector will fit directly to a French propane cylinder, but some of the smaller capacity French propane cylinders connect with non-standard connectors, so you would need to get the corresponding pigtail connector (or an adaptor). Also, be aware that some of these cylinders are of different size and shape to the Color 6kg, so may not pass through your gas locker door, so some measuring beforehand would be a good idea. The problem with switching to a continental cylinder (in whatever country), is that you will still have to transport the empty Calor cylinder as it will not be accepted in exchange, so you will still have to carry two cylinders, albeit one will be the empty. So, would it be possible (and simpler) to carry a spare Calor cylinder, secured upright, in a ventilated locker?

[witzend]

Uk to French bottle adaptor

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183761134159

[witzend]

And heres the EHU adaptor you'll need https://tinyurl.com/y2b8849u I carry a 40 mtr lead and its used often trouble with joining 2 leads is the joint may get driven over as the EHU post can be across the road from where your pitch is

Also you may find one of these useful https://tinyurl.com/y5s9uu6s

[TeePee]

We have travelled Europe extensively in our Autosleeper Duetto. I bought a refillable Gaslow bottle and was able to refill it easily at petrol filling stations (LPG). Just make sure you buy the various adaptors.

[weldted]

If your van will only hold a 6 kg you may struggle to find a French or Spanish one to fit. As an emergency but expensive refill is camping Gaza 907

[_Chris]

Thanks for all the very useful information.

 

I think I'll be looking for sites with EHU and be taking a 2 pin style adapter and an extra long lead since storage for a second bottle is very limited. I'm fairly sure that an 11kg Flogas wont fit since I can only just get the 6kg Calor one in through the locker door.

 

Seems like there's a good chance of eeking out the gas in a full 6kg bottle over a month in the warm weather ;-)

[_Chris]

Just one more question about electric hook up abroad.

 

The possibility of 'reverse polarity' has been mentioned. I have a neon socket tester that I could fit to the end of a hook-up lead if I were to buy a suitable adapter but I would only know the answer after I had pitched up and paid up.

 

My campervan is quite old and the electrical items in the van may object to being connected the wrong way around. The battery charger and the fridge for instance. The charger has overload and overheat protection but the instructions don't mention anything about reverse polarity. It's a Volta CTSAN/18A. The fridge is an Electrolux RM4213S.

 

How common is 'reverse polarity' abroad nowadays and does anyone know if it is likely to do lasting damage to the electrical appliances in my precious 20 year old van?

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Chris’s Auto-Sleepers Symbol is a 2000 model, so the likelihodd is that the gas system comprises an on-bottle regulator (28mbar for butane or 37mbar for propane) with a length of ‘rubber’ flexible hose connecting the regulator’s outlet to the Symbol’s metal gas pipework and with jubilee-clip fixings. This is what I called “Old System” in the 1st link I provided in my posting above.

 

The gas-locker of Chris’s Symbol is a cupboard at the rear of the motorhome and the rear door needs to be opened to access it. This 2018 MotorHomeFun thread asks about fitting a user-refillable gas system to a 2000 Symbol and includes photos showing the gas-locker’s interior and describes (briefly) how the task was eventually carried out.

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/refillable-gas-2000-peugeot-autosleeper-boxer-symbol.182212/

 

Personally, if I had done this, I’d either have used a Gaslow Direct Fill bottle (that would have involved no external filling-point) or have located the filling-point beneath the rear or rear-side of the motorhome.

 

A French “Le Cube” gas container might well fit into the Symbol’s gas-locker, but you’d need to be familiar with the Le Cube to know how to connect it to the Symbol’s gas system. But Le Cube is not availale in Spain and all Spanish gas containers would almost certainly be too big to go in the locker.

 

That leaves the Campingaz 907 bottle (mentioned by Robinhood) and swapping the regulator currently being used with the Calor bottle for the Campingaz version.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

All you need is a short length of hook-up cable with a CEE plug one end and a CEE socket the other. When connecting the CEE plug/socket to this length of cable, wire one end correctly, but reverse the wires at the other end so that the brown wire goes to the "N" terminal, and the blue wire to the "L" terminal. The earths must be connected correctly at both ends.

 

You now have a polarity reversing cable so, when you find a supply with reversed polarity, just insert that short cable into the van socket, then attach your EHU cable to it, and the polarity fed to the van will be correct to correspond with your internal UK norm wiring. You could mark that cable, but as it will be the only short cable you have with connectors at each end, I guess you'll know what it is!

 

Polarity is not a problem for Europeans as they wire their electrics differently to us, so the issue doesn't arise for them. You are likely to encounter reversed polarity whether the site has the blue CEE connectors or the older two pin sockets.

 

The risk with UK installations is very low, but there is a small risk of shock because our switches only isolate the line (or "live") side of the circuits. When the polarity is reversed the supply to anything plugged in then remains live whether or not the socket is switched off, because the neutral has become the live, and is by-passing the socket switch. So switching off at the socket under these circumstances does not achieve what it should. It is in any case very unwise to assume anything that remains plugged in is safe to work in whatever the polarity of the supply. So, always unplug first! But you already knew that, didn't you? :-)

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-10-17 6:44 PM

 

That leaves the Campingaz 907 bottle (mentioned by Robinhood) and swapping the regulator currently being used with the Calor bottle for the Campingaz version.

 

 

..no need to change the regulator, simply buy the adapter -

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Camping-Adapter-Motorhome-Caravan-Regulators/dp/B0757588K8

 

- as I mentioned above.

 

Contiue to use the Calor bottle in the UK (it's cheaper) and switch to the Campingaz bottle and adapter to head abroad.

 

(I think I'd actually try to go abroad with a full 6kg Calor and carry the Campingaz bottle as a spare (or if space is at a premium, even go do the next Campingaz down in size/weight))

 

I've got one of those adapters lying around somewhere from when I used such a strategy best part of 25 years ago.

 

Edited to add: this will only work if the Calor is butane: if it is propane the Campingaz will need a butane regulator.

[Derek Uzzell]

If Chris is using a Calor 6kg bottle at the moment with an on-bottle regulator, the regulator will either be the snap-on type for the 6kg butane canister or a regulator with a POL male threaded end fitting for the propane bottle, neither of which regulators would accept the 'full pressure' adapter you've referred to. The only Calor bottle that would have a regulator to which the adapter could be connected would be a Calor 4.5kg butane canister.

 

https://www.campingandcaravandirect.co.uk/leisure-outdoors-c8/caravan-marine-c180/gas-regulators-changeover-valves-c139/4-5kg-calor-gas-butane-regulator-p1145

 

This regulator is shown in the MHFun thread connecting a user-refillable bottle to a 2000 Symbol's gas system.

[DickB]

Slightly off the original post, but if you are concerned about mains polarity just use your tester and if polarity is reversed then use a "gender bender" cable as described. Much easier to buy one ready made up than buying the bits to make it up. Just search on eBay for gender bender. Usually between £12-15.

 

Dick

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-10-17 8:19 PM

 

If Chris is using a Calor 6kg bottle at the moment with an on-bottle regulator, the regulator will either be the snap-on type for the 6kg butane canister or a regulator with a POL male threaded end fitting for the propane bottle.

 

If it's Calor and 6kg, it'll be Propane (which is why I added my edit). Butane is, AFAIK, 7kg in that size.

 

I must admit my historic use was with a 4.5kg butane (in a couple of Auto-Sleepers), and as I haven't used butane since then, I'd overlooked the presence of a clip-on regulator on the larger butane cylinder.

[Steve H]

Chris

Two things, firstly I would suggest that by the time you've paid through the nose for a few Campingaz butane refills you'll wish you'd spent the money upfront on a Gaslow cylinder.

 

Secondly regarding reverse polarity buy a plug in tester:

 

Link to Amazon

 

Then buy hook up plugs such as:

 

Link to Amazon

 

Then join them together with a short length of cable BUT when doing so reverse the positive and negative wires in one of the plugs.

Having done that clearly mark that cable so that you can easily identify it for what it is.

 

So - when you get to the campsite plug in the tester, if it's reverse polarity put the new short connection cable between your main hook-up cable and the vehicles socket, then test again just to make sure.

I hope that makes sense.

 

(Links shortened to fit page width - Keithl).

[Robinhood]

Steve H - 2020-10-17 9:16 PM

 

........firstly I would suggest that by the time you've paid through the nose for a few Campingaz butane refills you'll wish you'd spent the money upfront on a Gaslow cylinder.

 

 

...at the price of fitting a single-cylinder Gaslow kit, it would take a good few years of use/a large amount of gas consumption to justify vs using Campingaz cylinders on a purely financial basis (and that comes from someone who has a double-cylinder Gaslow installation, and is off-grid in Europe for a reasonable amount of time). Mine is installed mainly for convenience, rather than on cost grounds.

 

It's not something I would discourage on the latter basis, but on cost alone (at least in my case) it doesn't add up.

[Derek Uzzell]

As you rightly say, the Calor butane canister equivalent to their 6kg propane bottle is a 7kg one.

 

It would be practicable to ‘adapt’ a UK-norm propane regulator that has a POL male threaded end fitting so that a Campingaz 907 bottle could be used. You’d need the adapter you’ve mentioned (1st image below) that would screw on to the Campingaz bottle and the adapter mentioned above by witzend (2nd image below) that would go between the on-bottle adapter and the regulator. Cost should be under-£20 for both adapters, while a Campingaz regulator should be under £10.

 

A (full) Campingaz 907 bottle seems to be obtainable in the UK for around £40, with a refill costing around £25. France prices are around £67 and £23. Spain prices around £50 and £12. (So buy the 907 bottle in the UK and refill it in Spain...)

 

A 6kg Gaslow Direct Fill ‘kit’ will cost around £170 and comprises the bottle and filling adapter, plus a regulator with a ‘barbed’ outlet.

 

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-direct-fill-6kg-refillable-cylinder-01-4006-67-d/

 

Autogas (100 propane in the UK) costs around £1.25 per kg at present, so refilling an empty 6kg canister in this country would cost around £7.50

 

Chris would need to understand that refilling a Gaslow Direct Fill bottle would require his Symbol’s rear door and its gas-locker door to both be open while the bottle was being refilled and that this might present potential difficulties at service stations.

 

It’s extremely difficult to make a financially realistic comparison between the Campingaz and user-refillable bottle approaches as there are so many variables. For example, I’ve managed to acquire Campingaz 907 bottles from a local recycling centre (when their rules were less strict) so I’ve only ever paid for the rarely needed refill. I switched to a user-refillable bottle in my motorhome in the early 2000s and since then Campingaz has only been brought into play at home for running a camping stove during a long power cut.

 

All that can really be said is that any motorcaravanner who uses exchange-only gas bottles (eg. Calor canisters) in the UK and plans to venture abroad needs to be aware that it’s not possible to exchange those bottles outside the UK if they become empty. How this potential problem is best circumvented will then depend on the circumstances and the motorcaravanne's preferences.

[Robinhood]

As you say, it is difficult making financial comparisons. The major unknown variable is gas usage pattern.

 

It is much easier to make a financial case for refillables when largely off-grid usage is envisaged, much less so to cover occasional use where an EHU is generally available and in use.

 

When we holidayed abroad with the kids, on campsites with EHU in use, we never got anywhere near exhausting onboard Calor supplies in up to three-week stays. Now we use Aires/Stellplatze we use quite a bit more gas, though with the increasing prevalence of electricity on such (and my preference for running the fridge on the same if I can, regardless of any minor cost implications) I've never been in a position where a refillable was any more than a precaution, rather than a necessity, even for four weeks plus.

 

To your costs, for the OP you would have to add French and Spanish filling adapters, which could add another £30-40 depending on where they are sourced.

 

So, a minimum outlay of £200, and some concerns as to whether the "direct-fill" approach would be widely accepted abroad.

 

For illustration alone, let's assume a baseline case where a 907 is used as a backup, EHU is generally available, and the combined Calor/907 capacity will last a 4-week outing mainly providing cooking facilities (frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Calor alone didn't suffice for such minimal demand, unless the OP is into banquets ;-) ).

 

That's an initial extra outlay of say £15 (907 cylinder), and £25 per UK exchange/refill. That's roughly 8 4-week continental outings before even the capital outlay of the refillable is covered. (If you add in the gas purchase required for the refillables, it's 9 before the costs begin to even out, and considerably longer at the Spanish prices you quote).

 

Patently, there is also some scope for saving using a refillable for gas bought for domestic touring, rather than reverting to exchanging the Calor bottle, but the amount saved again obviously depends on gas consumption. Gas goes a surprisingly long way if not used for heating and the fridge.

[Brian Kirby]

Robinhood - 2020-10-17 10:28 PM

Steve H - 2020-10-17 9:16 PM

........firstly I would suggest that by the time you've paid through the nose for a few Campingaz butane refills you'll wish you'd spent the money upfront on a Gaslow cylinder.

...at the price of fitting a single-cylinder Gaslow kit, it would take a good few years of use/a large amount of gas consumption to justify vs using Campingaz cylinders on a purely financial basis (and that comes from someone who has a double-cylinder Gaslow installation, and is off-grid in Europe for a reasonable amount of time). Mine is installed mainly for convenience, rather than on cost grounds.

It's not something I would discourage on the latter basis, but on cost alone (at least in my case) it doesn't add up.

Or, if wanting reasonable autonomy with minimal inconvenience, and prepared to bear the cost of a refillable installation, look into getting an underfloor tank fitted, as you'd then have the possibility of a sensibly sized gas reserve, plus you gat a small, ventilated, storage locker (the old gas locker) into the bargain! If you do this, just make sure the fill point is installed into the side of the vehicle so that the intended use of the fuel is not apparent when filling. Same comment as above for also getting the various filler adapters for use around Europe.

[witzend]

_Chris - 2020-10-17 10:17 AM

 

I'm planning on visiting France & Spain next year My van takes a 6kg cylinder How do others manage?

 

https://selectra.info/propane/fournisseurs/energaz/bouteilles/propane-9kg will one of these fit in your locker

 

available at nearly all Intermarche stores when we went to France for the first time I took no gas and in 2 hrs of getting off the ferry had purchased 2 of these. See the bottle deposit price €5 puts Calor in the shame bin

[Derek Uzzell]

The quoted dimensions of the Energaz canister are 570mm (height) x 300mm diameter, while a Calor 6kg propane bottle is 495mm x 256mm. The size of a Gaslow 11kg bottle is 530mm x 304mm - shorter than the French 9kg container but near enough the same diameter - and the Gaslow bottle is BIG.

 

It would be worth Chris checking the size of his Symbol's locker very carefully to see if there's any chance the Energaz bottle would go in, or even (as was suggested above) whether a Flogas 11kg canister would fit (560mm x 310mm), but the consequences of him going abroad with an empty gas-locker and then finding that no French bottle would fit are obvious. And then there's Spain to bear in mind...

 

The Campingaz 907 bottle approach seems the most logical and least risky as Chris could prepare for this while In the UK.

 

(Another option would to increase the gas-locker size so that it could accommodate larger bottles. But the Campingaz approach is simple, understandable and requires minimal gas-system changes.)