DIY/Subcontract conversions

[Dave Attridge]

Gooday all,

I am still looking to purchase my ideal 2 berth, rear wheel drive, automatic motor home with a layout that is what we would require.

To-date no luck, but the new Hymer Duomobile comes close but am reluctant to part with over £100k for a new one.

I am left with the following options. Buy a second hand Mercedes Sprinter (or Iveco) chassis cab or purchase an ex library van and have it converted to a motor home to our spec.

As I do not have all the skills necessary to build or convert myself (other than gutting a library van of it's shelves etc) can anybody recommend a suitable supplier who could carry out this build or conversion and would be happy to work with our specification.

I look forward to your usually knowledgeable replies.

Thanks

Dave..

[snowie]

Dave Attridge - 2014-11-07 7:55 PM

 

Gooday all,

I am still looking to purchase my ideal 2 berth, rear wheel drive, automatic motor home with a layout that is what we would require.

To-date no luck, but the new Hymer Duomobile comes close but am reluctant to part with over £100k for a new one.

 

Dave..

 

Hi Dave; your topend option looks pretty impressive. I wonder how close a DIY/subcontract option would come to that?

I would refine the budget and take it from there. A library van or small single deck bus would be great size and shapewise (I think,) but maybe not as "cool" looking?

There are a few converters who will work to your plans, best bet is to Google, then get on the phone I think, good luck

alan b

[Guest Peter James]

Remember that any converter doing a one off will lose any economies of scale, so the finished job is bound to be more expensive and possibly less well built than an 'off the peg' model.

Given the huge range of layouts I have seen I am surprised you can't find anything suitable. Especially bearing in mind that everything is a compromise, so if its not as good in one way it is probably better in another.

Beware of people who say they can do anything, and cheap. The finished job invariably disappoints.

[Derek Uzzell]

As Alan says, a GOOGLE-search (search on "motorhome bespoke conversions”) will reveal that there are quite a few companies offering conversion services on a full or part basis, on new or used base-vehicles. Normally the conversions will be on panel-vans, so finding somone prepared to take on the transformation into a motorhome of an ex-library vehicle or small bus may prove difficult.

 

Young Conversions Ltd at Bletchley in Buckinghamshire have specialised in bespoke panel-van conversions since 1988, have an excellent reputation and will build to a customer’s requirements as far as it’s practicable/possible to do so.

 

This website (of a firm based near Sheffield) carries a lot of useful information

 

http://www.convertyourvan.co.uk/

 

and there’s a long listing here

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Business-Directory/Motorhomes/Bespoke-conversions/_cat130

 

If you do decide to take the bespoke conversion route, you’ll need to be very confident about the layout you want and be as confident as possible that the converter you choose is competent and will remain in business long enough to carry out the work (!!!) You’ll need to develop a close partnership with the converter as the layout you specify will undoubtedly need tweaking as the build progresses. it would be wise, then, to select a company that’s not too far from your home so that visiting them on a regular basis will be easy.

 

The only forum-member I’m aware of who designed his own motorhome and had it built to that specification (on a Renault Master panel-van) was the late-Mel Eastburn back in 2005. I can’t recall who carried out the work, but I do remember that, despite Mel being notoriously picky about detail, difficulties arose both during the conversion phase and afterwards.

[Guest Peter James]

I can't see how it can be economic to do one off jobs when you are paying someone else to do it. Having done my own and seen how long it takes to do measure cut and fit wall panels, work out how to fit everything together etc. You could do probably do a second one the same better and in a quarter of the time using the cut panels as templates etc

[colin]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-11-08 8:37 AM

 

The only forum-member I’m aware of who designed his own motorhome and had it built to that specification (on a Renault Master panel-van) was the late-Mel Eastburn back in 2005. I can’t recall who carried out the work, but I do remember that, despite Mel being notoriously picky about detail, difficulties arose both during the conversion phase and afterwards.

 

The only converters we've dealt with how would build a van entirely to the customers plans where KC, they have long gone following a disastrous involvement with Manhatton motorhomes.

I drew up a set of plans and touted them around several converters when wanting to replace my old DIY VW, none where realy interested in building to my spec, they all wanted to build to their own plans with just a few mods.

Youngs told me they had built showers in the corridor, but they where never successful, NVC told me a fridge mounted high was a bad idea, Nobody seemed at all interested I was on the point of going the DIY path again when Globecar introduced the 636sb which was nearly identical to my plans.

[colin]

Peter James - 2014-11-08 8:56 AM

 

I can't see how it can be economic to do one off jobs when you are paying someone else to do it. Having done my own and seen how long it takes to do measure cut and fit wall panels, work out how to fit everything together etc. You could do probably do a second one the same better and in a quarter of the time using the cut panels as templates etc

 

I have spent the last 1/4 of a century working in an industry where we have had on numerous occasions had to compete against volunteer groups. We have always had the edge in being able to beat them on quality and time scale at very little extra cost.

[grahamw]

Peter James - 2014-11-07 9:32 PM

 

Remember that any converter doing a one off will lose any economies of scale, so the finished job is bound to be more expensive and possibly less well built than an 'off the peg' model.

 

This is not necessarily true. A lot depends on who does the sourcing of the vehicle. It's true that the major independent converters will source a vehicle but then proceed to charge you full list price for it and also full list price for any base vehicle options. This is why companies like Vantage and IH produce vehicles that are well built but costly. The discounts on new vehicles such as the Fiat Ducato can be substantial if you are prepared to negotiate, even just buying a one off. This significant profit goes straight into pocket of the converter before a hole is even cut rather than being invested in the conversion. Having gone this route myself I found I was able to secure a much better specified base vehicle with all the options and still make a saving on the price charged by those converters who can benefit from "economies of scale. In essence the conversion costs more as everything is a "one off" but the saving on sourcing your own vehicle leaves you well in pocket.

[Will86]

When and if you need to sell your own designed outfit, you may find that no one else likes it, whereas a conventional outfit will almost always find a new buyer.

 

[grahamw]

Will85 - 2014-11-08 11:14 AM

 

When and if you need to sell your own designed outfit, you may find that no one else likes it, whereas a conventional outfit will almost always find a new buyer.

 

That's true and I have to agree it's risk. But going for a bespoke conversion gives you exactly what you want and the need to change with any frequency is removed. One of the best ways to secure value for money. It also true that you can simply copy a mainstream converters layout if you wish and still gain the financial benefit.

[snowie]

grahamw - 2014-11-08 11:49 AM

 

One of the best ways to secure value for money. It also true that you can simply copy a mainstream converters layout if you wish and still gain the financial benefit.

 

I disagree Graham; think the design through carefully and have the job done well and there'll be someone out there who will appreciate it, but I suppose most of us who go the bespoke route don't change vans very often.

Dave A has gone very quiet, lots to think about!

I'd echo the view that finding a fairly local converter will be beneficial.

If it's your first van then it will be daunting, Whilst it's not essential to have detailed knowledge of every component you think you want to incorporate, it will certainly help to have read something like "The really useful Motorhome Book", and checked out a few mainstream vans.

All very exciting; makes me want to embark on Mark II !!

regards

alan b

[Guest JudgeMental]

I cant imagine a converter getting near this fit and finish at a sensible price.... have you looked around in germany for used at all....A bit overblown and fussy for my tastes and pocket..La Strada worth a look for clever mercedes based vans

 

www.mobile .de

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGkvc4paUPY

[colin]

grahamw - 2014-11-08 11:49 AM

 

Will85 - 2014-11-08 11:14 AM

 

When and if you need to sell your own designed outfit, you may find that no one else likes it, whereas a conventional outfit will almost always find a new buyer.

 

That's true and I have to agree it's risk. But going for a bespoke conversion gives you exactly what you want and the need to change with any frequency is removed. One of the best ways to secure value for money. It also true that you can simply copy a mainstream converters layout if you wish and still gain the financial benefit.

 

We buy for the long term, are not in to chopping and changing, so it's more important to us to get what we want and not worry about what the next user might want. It's only luck that the 636sb appeared when it did, else I would have built one myself.

[Tea Cup]

grahamw - 2014-11-08 9:50 AM

Peter James - 2014-11-07 9:32 PMRemember that any converter doing a one off will lose any economies of scale, so the finished job is bound to be more expensive and possibly less well built than an 'off the peg' model.

This is not necessarily true. A lot depends on who does the sourcing of the vehicle. It's true that the major independent converters will source a vehicle but then proceed to charge you full list price for it and also full list price for any base vehicle options. This is why companies like Vantage and IH produce vehicles that are well built but costly.

A recent search on the internet found a dealer offering a new 2015 style Peugeot Boxer L3H2 with cab air conditioning etc for £14,250 plus VAT, rfl and delivery charge. I think this is the LWB high top which is eminently suitable for conversion. I have no idea what the delivery charge and rfl are but this should not be huge. Even a cheaper type conversion should produce an eminently saleable motorhome in the shorter term. Once it has aged somewhat, say 10 years, its resale value would be much lower than an established brand, but at the same tlime you would have produced what you need an enjoyed it for years. It has to be worth costing out. Plus, if there is something that you specified that didn't quite work, you could relatively easily change it at a later date.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

most commercial panel vans lead a very hard life indeed!

[Guest Peter James]

Tea Cup - 2014-11-08 12:55 PM

A recent search on the internet found a dealer offering a new 2015 style Peugeot Boxer L3H2 with cab air conditioning etc for £14,250 plus VAT, rfl and delivery charge. I think this is the LWB high top which is eminently suitable for conversion.

 

There are 4 lengths and 3 heights. L2 gives just over 6 foot of interior headroom and is the one most converters use.

The best discounts on 'new vans are not factory orders but old stock, often pre registered by dealers who have to register a certain number of vans within a certain time frame to get their bonus from the manufacturer. So you generally have to be flexible on spec to get the best deal. I set out to buy an L3 H2 but got an L4 H2 at a lower price and am very glad I did because the extra 2 cubic metres at the back is very useful, and gives better weigh distribution. You also get uprated axles with bigger wheels and brakes as standard on the L4

[Tea Cup]

Peter James - 2014-11-08 2:14 PM

Tea Cup - 2014-11-08 12:55 PMA recent search on the internet found a dealer offering a new 2015 style Peugeot Boxer L3H2 with cab air conditioning etc for £14,250 plus VAT, rfl and delivery charge. I think this is the LWB high top which is eminently suitable for conversion.

There are 4 lengths and 3 heights. L2 gives just over 6 foot of interior headroom and is the one most converters use.The best discounts on 'new vans are not factory orders but old stock, often pre registered by dealers who have to register a certain number of vans within a certain time frame to get their bonus from the manufacturer. So you generally have to be flexible on spec to get the best deal. I set out to buy an L3 H2 but got an L4 H2 at a lower price and am very glad I did because the extra 2 cubic metres at the back is very useful, and gives better weigh distribution. You also get uprated axles with bigger wheels and brakes as standard on the L4

I'd be interested to hear what the OTR costs were, and how much your conversion cost. I've converted or part converted two campervans, and would not be too worried about doing my own, using professionals to do such things as hole cutting for windows, electric point, and lining, as I now have contacts and some knowledge. Except, that is, for the time it takes, which has illustrated to me that using a full converter is well worthwhile. But it is also a fact that I (mostly) enjoyed doing it.

[Guest Joe90]

May be worth having a chat with this company. Not sure if they do still undertake one off conversions, but their own conversions are a cut above the usual offerings.

 

http://www.wildaxmotorhomes.com/#!constellation/c10ny

[snowie]

You are right Judge, but there are also some lightly used vans around that have been leased and maybe upgraded before the end of the lease. we bought an 18 month old H2L2 van with 20K miles, at a very decent £9850+ vat. I'd do the same again.

We bought from Tony Cornall @"Vanworld"

My biggest issue with a used van is the lack of availability of non-white vans; rare as hens teeth,

regards

alan b

[Keithl]

But there is one flaw to all your discussions on new Fi*ats, the OP said...

 

Dave Attridge - 2014-11-07 7:55 PM

 

Gooday all,

I am still looking to purchase my ideal 2 berth, rear wheel drive, automatic motor home...

 

Thanks

Dave..

 

So that rules out all your L2H2's, etc, etc and even his own suggestion of a Hymer Duomobile as that appears to also be on a Fi*t base!

 

Keith.

[Tea Cup]

I dare say new RWD Fords Transits are also available at a good discount. The L3H2 x250 was an example.

 

[Will86]

When we buy a house it has empty rooms so we fill them with suitable furniture.

 

Why not choose an empty van (like the BT linesmen use) and have all individual (and moveable) furniture, all it needs is securing when moving. Also easy to re-arrange to suit a theme.

 

PS

 

OK so its a daft idea ... but was is the truthful psychology behind it all ? Is it really a deep science ?

[Brian Kirby]

Tea Cup - 2014-11-09 9:34 AMI dare say new RWD Fords Transits are also available at a good discount. The L3H2 x250 was an example.

But, AFAIK, there is no automatic version of a Transit, FWD or RWD. I think the OP will probably have to settle for vans constructed around the Sprinter, which seems to have by far the best auto option. It is a bit compromised as a PVC, because it is narrower than most, if not all, of the rest. However, Devon Conversions Sapphire http://tinyurl.com/oydcg4k (£55-60K + auto + options) illustrates a layout that can be achieved and, according to an ex-editor of MMM, who has/had one, works very well. As with all things, what works for one, may well not work for another. Even so, starting with an existing van and getting it adapted, may prove a cheaper route than starting from scratch, for all the reasons stated above. It is just a matter of how radical the adaptations would need to be. Don't know if Devon would attack one of their own to special order, but even if not, one of the smaller converters who make to order would probably be prepared to undertake the changes.

[Guest Peter James]

Tea Cup - 2014-11-08 2:27 PM

 

Peter James - 2014-11-08 2:14 PM

Tea Cup - 2014-11-08 12:55 PMA recent search on the internet found a dealer offering a new 2015 style Peugeot Boxer L3H2 with cab air conditioning etc for £14,250 plus VAT, rfl and delivery charge. I think this is the LWB high top which is eminently suitable for conversion.

There are 4 lengths and 3 heights. L2 gives just over 6 foot of interior headroom and is the one most converters use.The best discounts on 'new vans are not factory orders but old stock, often pre registered by dealers who have to register a certain number of vans within a certain time frame to get their bonus from the manufacturer. So you generally have to be flexible on spec to get the best deal. I set out to buy an L3 H2 but got an L4 H2 at a lower price and am very glad I did because the extra 2 cubic metres at the back is very useful, and gives better weigh distribution. You also get uprated axles with bigger wheels and brakes as standard on the L4

I'd be interested to hear what the OTR costs were, and how much your conversion cost. I've converted or part converted two campervans, and would not be too worried about doing my own, using professionals to do such things as hole cutting for windows, electric point, and lining, as I now have contacts and some knowledge. Except, that is, for the time it takes, which has illustrated to me that using a full converter is well worthwhile. But it is also a fact that I (mostly) enjoyed doing it.

 

Delivery £560, First Registration fee £55, but that was 5 years ago.

I looked at an internet broker that seemed to offer everything at the lowest price but when I saw on google maps they were trading from a room over a Chinese takeaway 8-) they wanted the money up front 8-) Their terms and conditions gave them carte blanche to increase the price after the deal was struck 8-) I looked elsewhere.

I bought from Perrys, (a large dealership established over 100 years). I got extra discount for the van being registered on 31 July, instead of 1st August the new registration letter, so they could meet their sales target for that year. It was a cancelled order, built about 15 months previously. It isn't the spec I was looking for - its better, so I am delighted with it and the price. This link shows what special deals they have at the moment: http://www.perrys.co.uk/new-citroen-relay - note the photos are all of the same van which looks like the smallest L1 H1, the one for sale is usually larger going up to L4 H3

If you wanted a new factory order, like the converters have to have to maintain a regular supply of unregistered vans to their specification, then it would cost substantially more than the prices you see on the internet which are invariably for surplus old stock, which may also have been pre registered although still have delivery mileage only.

PS: I don't have any figures for the cost of the conversion because I did it all myself

 

 

[Guest Peter James]

Will85 - 2014-11-09 10:02 AM

Why not choose an empty van (like the BT linesmen use) and have all individual (and moveable) furniture, all it needs is securing when moving. Also easy to re-arrange to suit a theme.

 

?

 

Thats basically what I have done. All the big heavy items are secured. But things like chairs are not. So I find the seating far more convenient and comfortable than any of the professionally converted vans I have been in because they all have fixed bench seating, too close to the table to get in and out easily, and often half height backrests, far less comfortable than my armchair - which I can slide across to the side door and sit in my armchair looking out of the open door. Unsecured chairs probably wouldn't pass the regulations converters have to adhere to but its not as dangerous as it sounds. I have non slip flooring, and they are pushed under a table that is secured. Admittedly they slide a bit when you do an emergency stop, but at least they don't end up in the cab. Somebody will probably say what if the van overturns, but if you overturn in a coach built or delivery van you have probably had it anyway.