Hawcara Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'm interested in people's experience based on an article in MMM August 2015. The chairman of Trigano stated that they rate Fiat as the upper end of their base vehicle range, but the new Ford on the basis of noise. Basically if you want to to talk to your wife while drving get the Ford, if not the Fiat. Whilst I appreciate that this could be difficult to comment on, it would be interesting to hear from those with experience of the new vehicles. He also stated that the 'Ford is the most fantastic chassis we have at the moment' B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 It's a pity the fords aren't built to last as they're nicer to drive. I've had transits in the past and after 3 years and 40k miles I had rust spots above the windscreen. They're mostly bought by companies and only need to last until they renew at 3 years. You could say the same about the sevel vans but they don't seem to rust away the same. Also a friend of mine has got a new shape 13 Reg transit and the Ford badge on the back door is starting to rot, cheap tat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 My '07 Ford is totally rust free, at least the bits I can see, does 32 mpg and drives like a car. I think the main consideration when choosing a M/H is the model and layout, what it is built on is a bit secondary. I am looking around at the moment and am have a bit of a problem finding the layout we want. By the way I have read some pretty scary stories about Mercs and rust! Bring back the old Bedford CF, now that was a van :-D H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I don't understand why Ford still don't have an automatic or semi-automatic gearbox option? Puts them out of the running for me. Strangely, same with Peugeot too. So it only leaves Fiat, or possibly Renault, or Mercedes base for me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 From a noise point of view surely it depends on the conversion and the amount of soundproofing, our Fiat based Hymer is quieter than my car hardly ever (only on worst road surfaces) do you have turn the stereo volume up or talk louder at 70mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I've owned both and the Fiat is by far the nicer to drive. However, reading threads on here there do seem to be reliability issues with the Fiat even though I haven't experienced any. The fact the Transit base does not offer an auto option rules out a Ford for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Most of the noise in our van is tyre noise from the back so I've insulated the plastic rear wheel arches with 10mm sticky back lagging. Not been out in it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Our motorhomes/PVCs are all based on commercial vans. These are mainly built to achieve very high mileage with reliability for the first user who will normally replace them after three years or so. After that they pass into the hands of the likes of builders etc who will generally not care about the appearance of a little bit of body rust as long as they keep running so rust prevention is not high on the list of the manufacturers desires. For some reason Fiat/Peugeot/Citron use galvanised steel for their body work so making them the logical choice for motorhomes where mileage is lower but longer body life is an important consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Ford transit do have an auto option, in the States. I'm not a Ford person nor Fiat fan, always liked Renault Master and Merc MH's. But the new MH is on the Fiat with the auto box, and I hate saying it. ITS excellent, gearbox, engine, noise levels, seats, in fact is 1st class with the Chausson 610. Ford wise, my son in law owns 4 16 seater minibus's and he dies have problems and low mpg ( restricted to 62 ) so it's not speeding. I own the Ford torneo 8 seater and a Renault master 16 seater. The Renault is more economical and the engine is quieter than the ford. Ford engines specially when cold make a din or under load. The only good thing about ford is they supply the radio, unlike Fiat, where you have to pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Den, Don't know where you got the idea that Fiat's don't come with a radio as standard; they do. You get a radio with aux in and USB socket as standard and can upgrade to include DAB, CD or touchscreen navigation options. All come with bluetooth as standard. Fiat have an interesting history with radios. The Fiat 132 was the first car to have a digital radio as standard way back in 1981! To others.... The reason for the lack of corrosion on Fiat body panels is that since 1994 all panels have been galvanised. Most other manufacturers still don't do this but i suppose, looking back to 70's and 80's Fiat cars and vans; they did have something of a reputation for rust and therefore more to prove! Regarding noise levels; each successive version of the Ducato has raised the bar for refinement and in cab sound levels have dropped to a level that i describe as 'To all intents and purposes; silent". The latest Transit is also very quiet until you put your foot down and then it becomes quite raucous. It would seem that you can take the Transit out of Essex but never the Essex out of Transit. I should also add that one of my customers bought a new Transit in September and had an accident in it in October. It took from the middle of October 2014 to the end of June 2015 to obtain a front panel for the repair and the local Ford dealer was powerless to do anything to improve this. Ford did not offer any financial support or a loan vehicle. I don't think that is good enough. I also think the Ford is one of the ugliest vehicles on the road and that it's body is amazingly narrow compared to most others; surely this limits it's usefulness as a motorhome? The dashboard looks too slick for my liking, it's supposed to be a van, not a spacecraft! Too hard to keep clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxli Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hi Echo the plus points of the Ford. My Mk7 2010 140ps TDCi goes like a rocket when needed but does 33mpg toddling along. Not driven the Fiat, so can't compare though. Standard Radio in the Ford is rubbish!!!! Replaced with Alpine DAB+ and opened up a handy stowaway space for sunglasses etc... Only problem to date was failed clutch master cylinder. Seals perish, the pedal drops to floor, gears crunch and pedal needs to be forced back up with top of shoe beneath. Replacement cylinder cured problem, which was well known to the local dealer here. BTW - Drove a Bedford CF in my youthful band touring days. Ah that was a van. All the gear in the back and three old air craft seats for the band. Much better than the wallowing Transit of the 70s and 80s I think. Did over 200,000 miles before it died. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I've seen mk5 transits with an auto box, be too old for you though. Can't beat the reliability of a Transit for me and repairs if they do go wrong but with any vehicle, autos are notorious for expensive repairs and reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 zombies - 2015-08-11 5:49 PM I've seen mk5 transits with an auto box, be too old for you though. Can't beat the reliability of a Transit for me and repairs if they do go wrong but with any vehicle, autos are notorious for expensive repairs and reliability. Mk VI Transits (late 2001 - 2006 ish) have an auto box. These days auto boxes are at least as reliable as manual boxes. Of course the Fiat Ducato boxes are automated manuals meaning the box itself is as near as damn it identical to the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 From all of which, one can only conclude that it is possible to please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time! :-D Our first van was a 3.4 tonne 2005 X240 Ducato based Burstner, and was a fairly gruff 146HP 2.8JTD with somewhat sluggish acceleration. It averaged about 25MPG over 13,000 miles. Not especially aerodynamic. It was followed by a 3.5 tonne 2007 Mk 7 Transit based Hobby that was a quieter, smoother, 130HP 2.2 with noticeably more responsive acceleration. It averaged about 29 MPG over 32,000 miles. More aerodynamic than the Burstner, with reduced frontal area. Present van is a 3.7 tonne 2013 X250 Ducato based Hymer, that is a slightly smoother and quieter 150HP 2.3 Comfortmatic with slightly less responsive (though still good) acceleration. To date it has averaged about 26 MPG over 13,000 miles. It has the aerodynamics of a barn door, though a similar frontal area to the Hobby. Make of that what you will. One can get a good van, or a bad one, from any maker. A good dealer will make a huge difference if things go wrong. None of ours has - so far- :-) proved unreliable, apart from the turbo tube blowing off on the Transit (clips not tightened during assembly) - quickly fixed under warranty. My personal view is that one would need the experience of several owners of the same generation of each base to be able to draw any conclusion and, as both the Mk8 Transit and the X290 Ducato are relatively new, and motorhomers don't do that much mileage, that is unlikely to be conclusive for some time to come. I think if I were Alex and I was considering whether to change vans to one or other, I'd be inclined to just get the van I prefer on whichever base now or, if I wanted more reliable feedback on their weaknesses, wait for another couple of years before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Our Chasson on the fiat chassis did not come with a radio as standard. It was an option. The new shape ford designed for the U.S. Market does have a auto box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 My point was referencing the article in MMM, which drew a distinction between Fiat and Ford. The next van will probably be on a Fiat chassis as they dominate the market, but since we have only had one motorhome and that on Ford chassis, I thought the article a worthy contender for discussion. i do not have an opinion either way. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Having recently driven a 2014 Jumbo Transit, and a 2015 XLWB Sevel vans, my overall impression was that there is very little between them, they were both car like........ie bland :D .......... But most annoyingly both only had one armrest *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I suspect that Fiat will deliver a base vehicle with various options to each of the converters based on what they want. Our Auto-trail came with all the equipment you would need, radio, CD, USB, Bluetooth etc and seats with two arm rests. The seats in IMHO are as comfortable as any vehicle I have owned especially over long distances. The bonus is they are adjustable up & down. I will only ever buy an auto so that currently rules out the Trannie. I read an article last week about the market for ex rentals and according to this report the rental company said the transit based vehicles are more sought after than the MB or Sevels.Not sure what this means when you relate it to the earlier comments about corrosion in Transits. Possibly as this is a much drier continent corrosion is not so much a short term problem.I agree that layout is my first consideration then base vehicle, oh yes and the ever important value for money equation that I struggle with every time I make a serios purchase.Cheers Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 In this earlier forum discussion https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Road-test/36759/ I mentioned that a French motorhome magazine had published a comparative test of Ducato, Transit, Sprinter and Master (in fact this test was in cooperation with the German magazine Promobil and apparently also involved VW’s Crafter, though this was not mentioned in the French article). http://www.promobil.de/test/transporter-2014-als-wohnmobil-basisfahrzeuge-so-testet-promobil-im-internationalen-team-6570844.html As I said in the earlier thread - the Transit was found to be the quietist. Measurements were taken at rest and at speeds of 50km/h, 100km/h and 130km/h. The dB(A) figures for Transit were (respectively) 49, 58, 66 and 71 and for Ducato 51, 64, 73 and 78. The decibel scale is logarithmic, where an increase of 10 dB(A) essentially represents a doubling of the loudness level, so the figures obtained indicate that the Transit on test was noticeably quieter than the Ducato at rest and much quieter at higher speeds. This should really be anticipated as the Transit Mk 8 is a brand new design, whereas the X290 Ducato is a face-lift of the 9-years-old X250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The new Ford Transit comes with a 12 year anti perforation warranty, no doubt with a few conditions. There are various ways of putting zinc or zinc based alloys onto steel sheet for vehicle manufacture and none of them is galvanising as I understand it. Electroplating is the favourite way, it gives a thin coat of zinc but is nice and smooth so it can be sprayed easier. It all helps of course, but I would rather have a proper wax injection and good underbody protection. Looked after it will last a very long time. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I don’t know what processes are involved in ‘galvanising’ Ducato, but details of how the structure of the Fiat 500 are protected are quoted here http://www.fiatforum.com/500/152698-500-body-galvanising.html There’s also a video-clip of Ducato X250 camping-car chassis manufacture here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-08-12 1:40 PM I don’t know what processes are involved in ‘galvanising’ Ducato, but details of how the structure of the Fiat 500 are protected are quoted here http://www.fiatforum.com/500/152698-500-body-galvanising.html There’s also a video-clip of Ducato X250 camping-car chassis manufacture here Given that galvanising the chassis will preserve the body, I wonder what they'll do to preserve the engines? ;-) ............... Or will there be a lot of 4 wheel caravans around in 10 years time :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-08-12 2:29 PM Given that galvanising the chassis will preserve the body, I wonder what they'll do to preserve the engines? ;-) ............... Or will there be a lot of 4 wheel caravans around in 10 years time :D .......... Or will people be dropping V6 Petrol Auto lumps in them? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-08-12 2:29 PM Given that galvanising the chassis will preserve the body, I wonder what they'll do to preserve the engines? ;-) ............... Pedantically speaking, galvanising the chassis only protects the chassis, presumably on a panel van, the bodywork is also protected in the same way. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-08-12 2:29 PM..............Given that galvanising the chassis will preserve the body, I wonder what they'll do to preserve the engines? ;-) ............... They galvanise the engines as well, Dave, inside and out. It's the only way to protect them from the leaky bonnet! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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