zombies Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 I have just found a burnt out fuse and slightly melted plastic on the module under the seat of our 2005 fiat moncayo, the unit is an Italian made module TE45 by nordelettronica A long shot but I wonder if there's an alternative unit. The fuse was to run the fridge when engine running, looks like the relay might be shot I'm going to try another fuse tomorrow and see if it works but the circuit board looks to have fried, everything else is ok. Another issue I have is the cigar sockets say max 160w but when I plug in a 130w inverter and run anything that seems to be over 5A the inverters start running intermittently - on 1 sec, off 1 sec etc this was why I looked at the module hoping tbere was a fuse for this. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 The TE45 is described as a battery separator. Going by the pictures alone it looks like the current CSB40 device from CBE may be a direct replacement - certainly worth further research. There are some CSB40s on Ebay. https://www.cbe.it/en/csb40-s-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I notice that there was a 2016 Spanish-forum thread that discussed (for a Moncayo) swapping the Nordeletronica TE45 unit for the CBE near-look-alike. https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.acpasion.net/foro/archive/index.php/t-128326.html&prev=search&pto=aue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 The inverter issue could be caused by volt drops in the wiring and various fuses and contacts. If the voltage 'seen' by the inverter falls too low it will shut down. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 Thanks for replies. I have asked a spanish seller if I can use the 40 SP model, the only thing missing is a plug icon on the socket which I think is charging the engine on hook up which it does at the moment might not do later, maybe no problem, it does last about 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 I have done a bit of a clean up of the connections and my fridge is switching over to/from battery in auto mode and there's power at the fuse so that looks to be okay for now. So, my 160w max sockets I plug in a 140w inverter, plug in my laptop charger and the inverter is clicking on/off Done this a while and sometimes doesn't do this but most of the time it does. What is controlling the sockets, is it the control panel ?what would make it do this, I have 2 inverters and they both do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Is your inverter 140 Watts OUTPUT or 140 Watts INPUT? If output then the input current will be significantly higher! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 It might be useful to specify the make and model of inverters you’re using. Some turn off when the supply voltage falls too low to save the vehicle battery. At about 12.5V I think. The inverter manual would state this somewhere if it applies. So running the inverter may be pulling the vehicle battery voltage too low hence the switch off and recovery. Putting a multimeter on the battery may help rule this possibility out. As an addendum: thinking about it, if you don’t have a multimeter, try starting your vehicle engine to raise the battery voltage then plug the inverter in and see if the problem persists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 Inverter Duracel DRIN15 UK Input 12v 20a AC OUT 240Vac 50hz 150w cont 175w peak Will try on engine tomorrow, on hook up it works ok, presume same off engine. DC out 5v/2.4a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 Right, Your cigar socket is rated at 160 Watts at 12 volts. This means the maximum current you can draw is approx 13 Amps (160 / 12 = 13.3). Your inverter states it requires a 20 Amp supply at 12 volts so to supply it from your 160 watt socket will not work! You need to arrange a 20 Amp 12 volt supply or restrict the load on the inverter to a max of possibly half its maximum, ie 75 Watts at 240 volts. Back to the drawing board! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickB Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 You are fortunate that the fuse for the 160w socket hasn't blown with the overload from your inverter. It is probably because the on/off switching of the inverter kept the current low enough not to heat up the fuse. My tyre compressor blew the fuse very quickly as it ran continually. The fuse location in the engine compartment was a devil to access. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 I think from memory that a laptop adapter consumes about 65W so even with the reduced power output the inverter may be enough. What’s interesting is that according to the op the inverter works fine when the van is on EHU and as the op states, will probably also do so when the engine is running. So what conclusion do we draw? I’m out of my depth here electrically but is still sounds to me like the 12v input voltage to the inverter is dropping too low when on battery alone, so perhaps the battery is worn out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 6, 2021 Share Posted May 6, 2021 As Mike has already suggested, the inverter problem may be due to an accumulation of voltage drops along the supply route. In addition the cable used to supply the socket, may be of minimal csa. The input stage of the inverter is probably a switch mode device. Switch mode devices draw more current when the supply voltage falls. This characteristic will serve to make the situatuion worse, and accelerate the low supply voltage shutdown of the inverter. The possible basic causes of the problem have already been posted by others i.e. poor connections, and/or an ageing battery. The fact that the problem does not appear when on EHU suggests the battery, but it could also be that the increased battery voltage while on charge, is itself sufficient to compensate for voltage drop in the supply to the socket. Cigarette lighter style plugs and sockets, are themselves not immune from poor contact resistance. I once suffered a minor burn when touching the tip of a universal cigarette/DIN (Hella) style plug immediately after unplugging. The plug body tip was slightly melted after only being used to power a 13" laptop, so perhaps 3A load on the 12V socket. If possible, it would help diagnosis by checking the voltage with a multimeter, at the supplying battery terminals, and the socket, when the inverter is running. Not really practicable to check the inverter input voltage directly, but is the plug hot after use? My practice has always been to use 12V PSU's for laptop and printer, and I have never had any other problems, than that one instance. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted May 7, 2021 Author Share Posted May 7, 2021 Up to now the tv (220v) has been okay via the inverter, I dont usually have a tv but am using it now to try this out. Seems to be running ok when theres input from mains or solar but when last used in sept the on off thing happened during decent daylight. I'll give it a go today see what occurs. Battery is new, replaced the 85ah to 120ah thinking it might solve the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted May 7, 2021 Author Share Posted May 7, 2021 Doesn't seem to be doing it today via 12v sockets ! Decent solar input tho. I have now set a cable directly to battery as well, good job as the swivel seat had been marking the under seat battery so i have put spacers in. Hadn't noticed warm/hot 220v plugs, 12v plugs csn be warm. Volts 14.4v nothing on (solar on) 13.12v with tv/inverter on (solar on) 12.6v tv/inv on (solar off) Volts as stated on victron app Tv/dvd 45w Inverter 160w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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