Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Is anyone using one of these (or a another from the "Drive" range) in their motorhome? If so, how does it perform please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I have an elderly Garmin Nuvi 1340 that I now use as a digital speedometer and a more recent Nuvi 2559 LM that I regularly update (as this is free!) I’ve no particular complaints about the 2559, either regarding the way the software functions or the accuracy of the mapping, but I only use it in the UK and France. I’m not interested in exploiting features like adding POIs and I don’t expect the device to provide an equivalent performance to that of a world-class rally co-driver. But - as a dedicated sat-nav - it has suited me fine. I notice that an Amazon advert for a Garmin Drive 51LMT-S device https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-51LMT-S-Lifetime-Updates-Ireland/dp/B01N35G58O carries 678 customer ratings of which 14% are 1-star and 4% are 2-star and an Amazon advert for a Nuvi 2559LM device (like mine) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-Satellite-Navigation-Lifetime-Bluetooth/dp/B00MBHCZZ8 carries 1185 customer ratings of which 12% are 1-star and 7% are 2-star. So quite a few buyers of Garmin sat-navs seem to have ’technical’ or ‘navigation’ problems with them. (When we were in France in September I set up on the Nuvi 2559 a quite complex route from Arromanches along the coastal back-roads towards Ouistreham. Not far into the trip the sat-nav began to behave very oddly, with peculiar messages appearing on the screen. Rebooting the device didn’t help and we eventually ended up well lost. I stopped in a lay-by, removed the device from its dashboard mount and, when I did this, it was obvious that its power cable was not properly inserted. When I had programmed in the route originally I had disconnected the sat-nav and taken it off its mount so that I could input the data more easily and, when I had put the sat-nav back on its mount, I must have failed to push in the power-cable plug fully. Correctly inserting the plug restored the sat-nav to full working order - not that this helped much as multiple road-work diversions then meant that all my careful route planning had been wasted...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I have a Garmin Nuvi LM which I find simple to operate - at the uncomplicated level at which I am content to use it. And I do get around to updating the maps (free) before we leave our local area. But a couple of years ago I decided, as part of a “mid-life refit” for our 13 year old MH, to buy a more expensive Camper 770 Garmin, which does many clever things - most of which I have never explored. But the Camper does absorb (by input, it’s not that clever) our MH’s dimensions and weight, which it uses to decide the prevailing speed limit and to calculate routes. But I doubt if it’s infallible for things like upcoming low bridges or even speed limits, although I still find it helpful. It has it’s own internet connectivity and it can update itself if it’s got a WiFi connection, which simplifies the process. It has a nice big display too, which works well and it has a built-in database of ACSI sites and Camperstop locations, which is handy. The best thing is the traffic sensitivity, so it warns you about holdups on your route and will calculate a diversion if the road ahead is closed. My smartphone is linked to it (automatically) and I assume that it connects to its source of traffic info that way. The worst thing is the obscure place in the menu system you have to find to switch over to kilometres, which I like to do when we’re abroad. It always takes me ages to find it and I never remember how I did it last time. Worth over £300 - I have no regrets because it is much better than the cheap Nuvi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Thank you both. Unfortunately, you both have "nuvis" (as I have), whereas I was hoping for replies from owners on "Drive" units. I don't want to go into details at present, but what I will say for now is that the Drive devices are emphatically not nuvis! Sorry to go all "Delphic"! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 You might do better, if you want specific review information, to look at one or other of the petrolhead or geeky forums; I fear that few of us motorhomers are young enough to have the aptitude for delivering that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-30 12:13 PM Thank you both. Unfortunately, you both have "nuvis" (as I have), whereas I was hoping for replies from owners on "Drive" units. I don't want to go into details at present, but what I will say for now is that the Drive devices are emphatically not nuvis! Sorry to go all "Delphic"! :-D That’s why I provided a link to the Amazon advert for the Garmin Drive 51 device. Even if no forum-member has hands-on experience of “Drive” sat-navs, there is a ‘negative database’ of some 140 comments on the Amazon advert. As I assume you are looking for feedback regarding these devices performing peculiarly, inaccurately in some respect (eg. a wrong speed reading) or not as one might reasonably expect, you might find some corroborative information among the Amazon reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Yes, and thanks again Derek. I did look at the Amazon comments, and found several expressing similar criticisms to my own. Unfortunately, they get lost among a welter of grumbles about other issues, so that pointing Garmin to the Amazon site wouldn't highlight the specific problem I think they have with their Drive series devices. My 7 year old nuvi performs better and, in this field, being 7 years older, it shouldn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 So what IS your criticism of the 'Drive'? PS I have a four year old Nuvi 66LM with no intentions to change, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Brian You might try registering on this forum and raise your concerns there. http://forums.gpsreview.net/ It’s a USA forum that seems to be quite active and there are threads that refer to the Drive 51 device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jands Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Have one bought from Aldi a couple of years ago. Got it before buying a MH to see if I liked garmin or Tomtom. Decided i prefer Tomtom so ended up with a Tomtom camper for my MH. Now just use the 51 in the car. Found the operation ok, does what it is meant to do. Routing can be a bit strange as will go more direct routes on smaller roads, this was a problem when used on my MH. A MH specific nav is better when you can imput size and weight to avoid narrow roads. Also screen is small but ok for a car. But you are talking of a difference in price of £200. What problems have you heard about the 51? Remember its a guide and can be ignored. Addition. Just looked at the amazon reviews and the numbet of complants about narrow roads. Yes it does that, routing can be strange. Going up north on m6 would it would only use the toll road through birmingham, alternative it selects the A50 route would not select the non toll m6. Personally would not use it on a MH unless you reviewed the routing first to avoid narrow roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Neither of my Garmin Nuvi ‘car appropriate' sat-navs has the capability for a driver to input vehicle dimensions/weight data and I’m pretty sure that’s also so for Garmin Drive 50-range devices. Brian has said that his Drive 51 LMT performs worse than his 7-years-old Nuvi in particular circumstances, but it would be odd if that behaviour related to selection of roads unsuitably narrow for a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 Thank you all. I am trying to persuade Garmin to accept that they have a problem with this model, but would prefer not to elaborate until I have exhausted this process. If anyone wants more detail I will happily respond to PMs. I have had two Garmin nuvis since 2008, that have satisfactorily guided us for 55,000 miles around a big chunk of Europe, so am familiar with Garmin units and their foibles. Only the Drive 51 model has had foibles severe enough to a) abandon it in favour of an older one, and b) complain to Garmin about its performance. I live in hope! :-D Re narrow roads, I have not found that a particular problem, but I never follow a sat-nav route blind and invariably look at planned routes in Google Earth before accepting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 An update. Despite being initially advised (by a Fiat dealer) that our van did not have an athermic windscreen, I have now received confirmation from Fiat Customer Services that it does, and that all current Fiat production includes athermic screens as standard. These screens have a heat rejecting coating that also attenuates satellite signals to the detriment of sat-nav performance. At present, it seems there is no work around (i.e an external signal amplifier) for this, so the best advice for maximum performance is to mount the device as near to the centre of the screen as possible, and as low down on the screen as possible, to maximise the amount of sky visible to the sat nav. Mine was mounted on the driver's side of the screen, meaning that the windscreen "A" pillar could have been masking signals on that side, leaving insufficient satellites in view so that, with signals weakened by the screen, and at times exacerbated by roadside obstructions (trees, buildings etc.), the device was probably struggling to receive sufficient satellites to adequately calculate its position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 So this would potentially affect ANY Sat Nav with a built in antenna? Sounds a bit like the old Renault's with athermic windscreens, you could spot them by the purple colour when viewed from outside. And Garmin used to offer an external Antenna as an option but seems none of their current offerings now has a socket for one! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I discovered similar when we bought our 2016 Ducato, but I put it down solely to the proximity of the windscreen pillar as I didn't think our van had an athermic screen. What you say makes sense with my own experience. Very difficult to get a signal with the satnav mounted between the instrument cluster and the A pillar, and constantly losing signal when it did obtain one. I used the satellite map feature of my Garmin to check its view and signal strength and settled on a mount attached to the tablet holder in the centre of the dashboard. No problems since and I also have the French toll tag mounted centrally at the bottom of the screen as I found it also works better there than in the Fiat recommended position at the top of the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 Keithl - 2019-11-08 3:30 PM So this would potentially affect ANY Sat Nav with a built in antenna?...…………..Keith. As I understand it, Keith, yes. If you do a web search for athermic windscreen, you get endless hits about sat-nav and radar detector problems. It seems there are two kinds of heat resisting screens, one called athermic, and the other reflective, which I understand has a slight violet hue. Both create similar problems, with the reflective screens being worse. I can't get a proper definition of the difference between the two, but suspect it must be the type of coating used. I've been looking at external gps signal boosters/re-radiators. The latter seem to offer the best solution, by taking the external signal, amplifying it, and then re-transmitting it inside the van. The apparent problem is that they are reportedly illegal to use in UK because they transmit a radio frequency. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-08 2:15 PM An update. Despite being initially advised (by a Fiat dealer) that our van did not have an athermic windscreen, I have now received confirmation from Fiat Customer Services that it does, and that all current Fiat production includes athermic screens as standard. Whilst Fiat Customer Services should know what they're talking about, I'd be wary of believing that. The athermic windscreen has long been a cost option (4G1) across the Ducato range and still remains so in both the UK and German current price lists, at £200/€230 respectively. That isn't to say that yours wasn't shipped with the option, but the implication is that it is not shipped as standard across the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Hi Brian I think down at the bottom of the screen in the middle of the screen you may just find there is a clear area that will accept sat navigation signal Or behind on the dotted area behind rear view mirror where e tags are fitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 The advice in Ducato X250/X290 Owner Handbooks ( 2006 to the present day) regarding mounting ’toll tags’ is shown on the attachment below - but this applies to Ducatos with the optional heat reflective windscreen (Fiat code 4G1) mentioned above by Robinhood, and not to Ducatos with a standard windscreen. There’s nothing in the Handbooks to suggest that another area of the screen would be equally suitable for a tag, nor is there any reference to an ‘athermic’ windscreen. Brian’s two elderly Garmin Nuvi devices operate reliably in his Knaus motorhome. His more modern first Drive 51 sat-nav behaved bizarrely and was replaced by Garmin, and the replacement has performed better. If it’s the windscreen type that is affecting the Drive 51, one might reasonably expect the older Nuvis to be more affected - but the opposite is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 As I said above, I have no idea whether my Ducato has an athermic windscreen, although I have always believed that it hasn't and it does not appear on the fitted option list that I obtained from Fiat. Brian, does the Drive model have a satellite status and position resolution screen? It's normally accessed by holding a finger on the signal strength icon for a few seconds on many Garmin models. When I first tried using my Nuvi LMT-D in my van I very quickly realised that something was amiss. I remember sitting on a motorway service area and bringing up the satellite status screen on my device, to find that I had a very limited number of satellites both visible and which the device had locked on to. I knew however that the device worked flawlessly in my car, so discounted it as being faulty. By removing the satnav from its cradle and taking it out of the van, I was able to see how quickly the number of satellites found (and the resolution and signal strength) increased as soon as I alighted from the van, and how they were again lost when I returned to the cab. I used the satnav in that screen mode to find the best location for it, by initially moving it around the dashboard area and watching the display, then attaching it to the screen by the suction mount in the most satisfactory location and then driving with it still displaying the same screen until I was happy that I was getting the best possible signal. The best position for me was centrally on top of the dashboard, above the radio, which is where I subsequently fixed a permanent mount for the device and have had no problems with it since. The other point that I found when I was looking into this, was that at least on the Ducato panel vans, there are aerial and power leads routed up the right hand side A-pillar which it appeared from various forum comments could be a cause of interference with sat nav and dash cam devices or their power leads if routed in close proximity. I also have a dashcam mounted centrally at the top of the screen, with a permanent mount fixed to the internal rear view mirror bracket. I routed the power supply for this from the fuse box across the floor of the vehicle and up the nearside A-pillar to avoid any interference from or with either the cables in the offside pillar or my satnav power lead, and have had no problems with the camera either. My toll tag is also mounted centrally at the lower edge of the screen, a position where I initially assumed it would work poorly if I had an athermic windscreen, but I found it works better there than in Fiat's recommended position at the top of the screen. I use the non-stop lanes at peages whenever possible and have never had a problem. So I lean towards the fact that my van doesn't have an athermic windscreen, but there is something about the position on the dashboard between the offside A-pillar and the instrument cluster, whether it is interference from the lead routed through the pillar, its compromise of the sat nav signal due to the size and thickness of the pillar, a combination of the two or something else entirely, which prevented my Nuvi from receiving a useable signal in that location. I would recommend using the satellite and signal resolution display on the sat nav when pursuing a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 The marking in a bottom corner of my 2015 Ducato’s windscreen shows that the screen was made by Saint-Gobain Sekurit. The marking includes a QR-code and this link refers https://www.saint-gobain.com/en/glasslink-bar-code-telling-you-everything-you-want-know-about-your-windshield (I’ve not attempted to read my windscreen’s QR-code, so I don’t know what information it produces.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-11-10 1:23 PM The marking in a bottom corner of my 2015 Ducato’s windscreen shows that the screen was made by Saint-Gobain Sekurit. The marking includes a QR-code and this link refers https://www.saint-gobain.com/en/glasslink-bar-code-telling-you-everything-you-want-know-about-your-windshield (I’ve not attempted to read my windscreen’s QR-code, so I don’t know what information it produces.) I scanned mine. The bar code only contains the same 16-digit number that is displayed in numeric form beneath it, in my case 1374283080029755. Presumably, you have to be subscribed to glasslink to obtain further information from that number. I used to have to read or decode various bits of information from vehicle glass as part of my job, and still have the manuals. There is nothing that I'm aware of in standardised automotive glass markings that would indicate whether the screen is athermic or reflective, so I suspect the only reference would be the manufacturer's part number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 I'm a bit late to the party but my drive 50 works ok, its not as good as my mio was regarding lane guidance and it doesn't have traffic updates, however it does the job and I'm glad to say it doesn't have the same sick sense of humour of my tom tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Deneb It seems that you have the same windscreen as me (photo of marking attached below). It might be interesting to know if the marking on Brian’s Knaus’s windscreen differs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 ...having checked the parts database for post-2014 Ducatos, all windscreen options are described in headline as "ST.ROL.ATHERM.WIND." 8-) This headline data might well have been the source of Fiat Customer Services response. However, on checking the underlying details, the cheaper parts are described in additional text as "NO REFLECTING WINDSHIELD" whereas the more expensive ones are "REFLECTING WINDSHIELD". It is also patently obvious from the database that the Fiat part number is the initial part of the full number as posted above: i.e. 1374283080 - and this varies by type of windscreen fitted. This particular part number is described as model "NO REFLECTING WINDSHIELD". If Brian can ascertain the equivalent run of numbers from the windshield of his van, if it isn't the same I can easily check against the database for the description of his (since the underlying text seems quite conclusive on the matter of Athermic or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.