urgent advice re tyres

[boxer1]

I am going on holidays to France tomorrow arriving in Cherbourg. I have just noticed that one of my rear tyres has cracking on its wall. I was aware of the cracking but it was not as bad as it is now. I have checked and there are no tyre suppliers open at present I was thinking that I could purchase a tyre in France but the problem I have is that I can speak no French and not sure where to look for a tyre in France.

Any advice please other than learning French.

 

Boxer1

[Roryboys Dad]

We had a problem with a tyre while in France a couple of years ago - slow puncture with nail in and €10 for the repair in around 10 minutes - you'll find it easy enough to get it sorted out.

 

Just find a tyre depot while you're in France, drive in and point at the cracks in the tyre (pneu fissuré or pneu critiqué) and ask for a new tyre (nouveau pneu, si'l vous plait)

 

Allopneus will be open from 0830 on Monday morning -

102 RUE DOM PEDRO

50100 CHERBOURG OCTEVILLE

tél : 0233440776

 

There are tyre depots on the edge of most bigger towns and Cities so you should see one somewhere as you drive along slowly!

[Keithl]

What's your spare like? (Assuming you have a spare of course).

 

Keith.

[lennyhb]

CP Camping tyres are unlikely to be a stock but should not have too much trouble getting a van tyre of the correct rating, if getting a van tyre do make sure it has the correct load rating.

 

Generally service is much better in main land Europe and if they can get one they try very hard for. We once had a blow out in Belgium on a caravan when to a small tyre fitter. He scratched his head when he saw it was a reinforced van tyre a bit of pigeon French and some arm waving & pointing at a clock worked out he wanted us to come back in a couple of hours, two hours later new tyre fitted & much cheaper than UK.

 

Stating the obvious if the tyre has cracks keep your speed down if it does blow it won't be quite as painful.

[Wooie]

Why`ve you left it so late before checking the tyres especially if you knew there was some cracking already ?

 

I suggest you check the Fluids etc. now because it`s a bit late if it boils or the oil light comes on when you are already on your way.

[rupert123]

The last time I bought a tyre in France, two years ago, it was very expensive compared with the UK, doubt things have changed much. They also wanted me to buy two, managed to get out of this by saying I was leaving France in a couple of days, they reckoned it was law in France to have indentical tyres on the same axle, not just type but in every way including make. Do not know if this is correct but the price alone would put me off. If you have no choice then a lack of French will not bother you much, a bit of pointing and it will be pretty obvious what you want.

[Muswell]

My son managed to shred a front tyre on our Golf. I replaced both fronts because I didn't want different grip between the 2 wheels.

[Randonneur]

What he told you was correct.It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Muswell - 2013-05-25 5:45 PM

 

My son managed to shred a front tyre on our Golf. I replaced both fronts because I didn't want different grip between the 2 wheels.

 

I always do as well....Surely if worried and concerned re safety, either change for spare or call out a mobile tyre service..Some operate 24 hours?

 

here is an example of a london based one: www.24hrmpanaobiletyres.co.uk

 

they quote price online so you get an idea as to cost..I am sure there wil be one near you...

 

If you cant please dont worry about the language, as they all understand it as all they watch is american movies.... but simply refuse to speak it! :D

[Tracker]

lennyhb - 2013-05-25 4:24 PM

CP Camping tyres are unlikely to be a stock but should not have too much trouble getting a van tyre of the correct rating, if getting a van tyre do make sure it has the correct load rating.

 

If you do, best to get two on the same axle if your existing tyres are CP rated Camper tyres or you might find handling and braking especially in the wet compromised and if you do get stopped Les Gendarmes will not be amused - if they look at and happen spot the different tyres.

 

If the tyre were bought as a set of two or four at the same time then the other tyre(s) should also be replaced at the same time.

 

Tyres have their date of manufacture embossed on them usually close to the rim and it is a four figure number representing the week number and the year it was made - often accompanied by some letters. So 1st Jan 2013 would show as 0113.

[Derek Uzzell]

Randonneur - 2013-05-25 6:05 PM

 

What he told you was correct.It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make.

 

I'm going to challenge your statement.

 

This link provides advice on French tyre regulations:

 

http://www.pneus-online.fr/reglementation-conseils.html

 

You'll note that a vehicle will fail the Contrôle Technique (CT) if tyres on the same axle have a significant difference in tread depth, or there's a difference in size or usage-type/construction, but there's no mention that tyres on the same axle must be made by the same manufacturer (and, if you think about it, it would be illogical to expect there to be such a legal requirement in France or anywhere else).

[Basil]

What size are your tyres? When we had a blow out, a number of years ago now, we found that our tyre size was not a normally used tyre in France/ Europe and was fitted to UK supplied Sevel vans only so we had great difficulty getting them in France, we had to fit two pre used ones (something I would never normally do) to allow us to complete the holiday before changing them immediately we got home. CC Red Pennant were going to send a pair out but it would have caused a five day delay in our holiday, hence we found the part worns.

The cost of the part worn tyres in France was dearer than the new ones in the UK by a considerable amount. Since then I have changed to a larger sized tyre that is readily available in France however noting prices in France they have always been considerably dearer, also French prices are not normally 'all in' so you have to pay for valves, fitting and balancing on top of the price. Too late for you now but I would not wait and buy in France I would delay my crossing and buy them in UK before travelling, that is what we should have done.

 

Well that was our experience anyway.

 

Bas

[crinklystarfish]

Bloke should be in France now with or without new tyre(s).

 

Would have liked to have seen the cracking he described. Could have just been a bit of superficial perishing: not much to worry about.

 

Could also have been the tread parting from the sidewall: bad.

 

 

[rupert123]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-05-26 8:01 AM

 

Randonneur - 2013-05-25 6:05 PM

 

What he told you was correct.It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make.

 

I'm going to challenge your statement.

 

This link provides advice on French tyre regulations:

 

http://www.pneus-online.fr/reglementation-conseils.html

 

You'll note that a vehicle will fail the Contrôle Technique (CT) if tyres on the same axle have a significant difference in tread depth, or there's a difference in size or usage-type/construction, but there's no mention that tyres on the same axle must be made by the same manufacturer (and, if you think about it, it would be illogical to expect there to be such a legal requirement in France or anywhere else).

Derek you can challange the statement as much as you like, if the tyre place refuse to fit one, as they did with me it will do no good. I managed to get around it but they were very reluctant to do it. Looking stuff up on the internet is fine but getting the local tyre depot or police to do the same may cause some problems. Practical experience and the exact law, which is often open to intrepretation anyway are two very differant things.

[Derek Uzzell]

rupert123 - 2013-05-28 9:24 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2013-05-26 8:01 AM

 

Randonneur - 2013-05-25 6:05 PM

 

What he told you was correct.It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make.

 

I'm going to challenge your statement.

 

This link provides advice on French tyre regulations:

 

http://www.pneus-online.fr/reglementation-conseils.html

 

You'll note that a vehicle will fail the Contrôle Technique (CT) if tyres on the same axle have a significant difference in tread depth, or there's a difference in size or usage-type/construction, but there's no mention that tyres on the same axle must be made by the same manufacturer (and, if you think about it, it would be illogical to expect there to be such a legal requirement in France or anywhere else).

Derek you can challange the statement as much as you like, if the tyre place refuse to fit one, as they did with me it will do no good. I managed to get around it but they were very reluctant to do it. Looking stuff up on the internet is fine but getting the local tyre depot or police to do the same may cause some problems. Practical experience and the exact law, which is often open to intrepretation anyway are two very differant things.

 

Randonneur said "It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make."

 

This is an authoritative statement made by someone who lives in France and (one might assume) will be aware of French motoring regulations.

 

In your earlier posting you said

 

"...They also wanted me to buy two (tyres)...they reckoned it was law in France to have indentical (I assume you meant to write "identical") tyres on the same axle, not just type but in every way INCLUDING MAKE. Do not know if this is correct..."

 

Randonneur has stated unequivocally that what the French tyre-fitter told you was correct. I'm saying that I'm sceptical that it's a legal requirement in France that the tyres on the axle of a vehicle must all be from the same manufacturer.

 

I gave a link to the tyre regulations of the French equivalent of the UK MOT test and suggested that it would be illogical for any country to have such a legal requirement.

 

If Randonneur knows that his statement was accurate and can provide supporting evidence, I'm happy to accept that what he (and your French tyre-fitter) said was correct.

 

There is no question of "interpretation" in this instance - either there is a French 'same make of tyre' regulation or there is not. (I'm not even going to quibble over whether such a hypothetical regulation would apply to non-French-registered vehicles.) If there's no such legal requirement, the French police will not be involved.

 

I can well accept that a French tyre-fitter (even a lot of French tyre-fitters) might believe there is such a regulation (people believe all sorts of odd things) and that, as a consequence might refuse to fit a single replacement tyre. But that's academic as far as the legal requirement is concerned.

 

If this French legal requirement exists, it's important that motorists (not just motorcaravanners) visiting France should be made aware of it. If it does not exist, but members of the French tyre-fitting trade are claiming that it does, that's also worth knowing. But the first thing to establish is the validity of Randonneur's statement, and that's what I was attempting to do.

 

[rupert123]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-05-28 10:15 AM

 

rupert123 - 2013-05-28 9:24 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2013-05-26 8:01 AM

 

Randonneur - 2013-05-25 6:05 PM

 

What he told you was correct.It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make.

 

I'm going to challenge your statement.

 

This link provides advice on French tyre regulations:

 

http://www.pneus-online.fr/reglementation-conseils.html

 

You'll note that a vehicle will fail the Contrôle Technique (CT) if tyres on the same axle have a significant difference in tread depth, or there's a difference in size or usage-type/construction, but there's no mention that tyres on the same axle must be made by the same manufacturer (and, if you think about it, it would be illogical to expect there to be such a legal requirement in France or anywhere else).

Derek you can challange the statement as much as you like, if the tyre place refuse to fit one, as they did with me it will do no good. I managed to get around it but they were very reluctant to do it. Looking stuff up on the internet is fine but getting the local tyre depot or police to do the same may cause some problems. Practical experience and the exact law, which is often open to intrepretation anyway are two very differant things.

 

Randonneur said "It is the law in France that both tyres on the same axel must be identical including type and make."

 

This is an authoritative statement made by someone who lives in France and (one might assume) will be aware of French motoring regulations.

 

In your earlier posting you said

 

"...They also wanted me to buy two (tyres)...they reckoned it was law in France to have indentical (I assume you meant to write "identical") tyres on the same axle, not just type but in every way INCLUDING MAKE. Do not know if this is correct..."

 

Randonneur has stated unequivocally that what the French tyre-fitter told you was correct. I'm saying that I'm sceptical that it's a legal requirement in France that the tyres on the axle of a vehicle must all be from the same manufacturer.

 

I gave a link to the tyre regulations of the French equivalent of the UK MOT test and suggested that it would be illogical for any country to have such a legal requirement.

 

If Randonneur knows that his statement was accurate and can provide supporting evidence, I'm happy to accept that what he (and your French tyre-fitter) said was correct.

 

There is no question of "interpretation" in this instance - either there is a French 'same make of tyre' regulation or there is not. (I'm not even going to quibble over whether such a hypothetical regulation would apply to non-French-registered vehicles.) If there's no such legal requirement, the French police will not be involved.

 

I can well accept that a French tyre-fitter (even a lot of French tyre-fitters) might believe there is such a regulation (people believe all sorts of odd things) and that, as a consequence might refuse to fit a single replacement tyre. But that's academic as far as the legal requirement is concerned.

 

If this French legal requirement exists, it's important that motorists (not just motorcaravanners) visiting France should be made aware of it. If it does not exist, but members of the French tyre-fitting trade are claiming that it does, that's also worth knowing. But the first thing to establish is the validity of Randonneur's statement, and that's what I was attempting to do.

Sorry Derek, you are plain wrong. Look at your own link and read the bit which has a heading, 'replacing a single tyre'. It clearly states tyre must be the same brand.

[Retread24800]

On a purely practical basis and with local knowledge the situation tends to be if you turn up with a wheel that needs a new tyre, they will change it for you, like for like or whatever you ask for, if you turn up and ask for a tyre to be changed in situe, they will change both sides of the axle.

Particularly if you are a tugger and have suffered a blow out it is a sensible move to have both sides renewed, excessive stress will have been placed on the ' good' tyre. Oh yes and they will suggest that you have a solid, metal valve assembly the belief being that the standard rubber type is only good for  lower pressures.

 

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2013-05-28 11:52 AM

..........................................Sorry Derek, you are plain wrong. Look at your own link and read the bit which has a heading, 'replacing a single tyre'. It clearly states tyre must be the same brand.

But.........as ever it is not quite that black and white. Henry's reference contains two claims: the one stating that the Code de la Route requires tyres on the same axle to be of the same type, size, construction, speed and load rating, and that there must be no greater than 5mm difference in tread depth between them. The second claim states that both need to be of the same make, but this is not a requirement of the Code de la Route, and no alternative source is quoted.

 

I was intrigued so, as you do, I did a bit more digging. :-)

 

I found further references to this requirement on other French tyres websites, one of which cited the Code de la Route, but added that this enjoined the further requirements of "JO CE L129/105 of 14/05/92."

 

Eurolex provides this document (the Official Journal of the European Community), recording the passing of Council Directive 92/23/EEC of 31 March 1992, which had effect as from 1/1/1993.

 

L129/105 references Annex II of the directive - Requirements for Tyres: Definitions. Definition 2.1 states that a "type of tyre" means "a category of tyres that do not differ in such essential respects as".................."2.1.1 Manufacturer's name or trade mark".

 

Annex IV of the directive governs the fitting of tyres and states, at paragraph 3.2.3 "All of the tyres fitted to one axle must be of the same type (See Annex II, section 2.1)"

 

So, it does seem that the French tyre fitters are correct in saying that where a single tyre is fitted it must be of the same make as the other/s on the same axle (under Directive 92/23/EEC), as well as being the same type, size, construction, and speed and load ratings, and having a tread depth within 5mm of that of the other tyre (providing that both have a minimum of 1.5mm tread depth) under the Code de la Route.

 

What is odd about this is that, so far as I can ascertain, the UK holds no derogation from the directive, and the requirement has not been changed during subsequent revisions, so the same should be true when replacing tyres in the UK. VOSA referred me to the DfT, and the DfT's central switchboard isn't working, so in the end I gave up! :-|

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian

 

I followed the same tortuous pathway as you and eventually came to the same conclusion - that the French tyre-fitting industry appears to be correctly complying with a 1992 CE Directive that demands that (except for specific exclusions) tyres fitted to one axle must have the same manufacturer.

 

I also wondered why this 'same make' legal rule not only seems to be unknown in the UK tyre-fitting trade, but the advice from the UK trade contradicts it. For example, this Kwikfit webpage http://www.kwik-fit.com/uk-tyre-law.asp says

 

"Mixing brands and patterns of the same construction type is permissible depending on the vehicle type and manufacturers recommendation."

 

And this one http://www.justtyres.co.uk/tyre-laws advises

 

"You can fit different makes of tyre on the same axle or on different axles providing they are all the same size and type of construction."

 

It's not best practice to mix different makes of tyre on the same axle (which the CE Directive forbids), but neither is it best practice to mix different tread-pattern designs on the same axle (which the CE Directive allows).

 

It's certainly simpler to legislate that tyres on the same axle are the same make and ignore tread-pattern differences, as a tyre manufacturer's name tends to remain unchanged, whereas tyre manufacturers are constantly altering their tread-pattern designs. There's a good deal of discussion on French forums about the 'same make' requirement, with one person pointing out that their car had a pair of Michelin "Energy" tyres on one axle but the tread patterns were quite different.

 

Clearly, when the Directive was framed some 20 years ago, it would have been impracticable to demand that tyres on the same axle be "identical" (as they'd then even have to carry the same date-code), but the 'same make' rule still seems strange to me.

 

It would be worth knowing why there is this apparent difference between France and the UK in this respect, but I guess the important thing is that motorists visiting France be aware of the implications. (It might also be worth knowing if the UK is the odd-man-out in this case - whether there are EU countries other than France that adhere to the 'same make' tyre rule.)

[euroserv]

What is the betting that some large tyre manufacturer (like Michelin) lobbied hard to get this law in place? What is the betting that the UK MOT test is actually in contempt of EU law because it ignores the clear requirement that tyres on one axle have to be of the same make etc?

Have UK tyre firms convinced the government NOT to enforce this law?

Huge can of worms there I think.

 

Best to let it drop before someone notices and does something about it!

[Brian Kirby]

It's odder even than that, Nick, because the French Controle Technique (equivalent of MoT) seems not to cite different makes of tyre on the same axle as a ground for failure - so long as in other respects the tyres are of the same specification and neither has more than 5mm greater tread depth than its counterpart, subject to a minimum of 1.5mm.

 

Bit like our "Construction and Use" dipped headlamps requirements, that cannot legally be met by using beam deflectors, yet headlamps modified by using beam deflectors pass the MoT. So, illegally registered vehicles can pass the MoT. All part of life's rich pattern? :-D

[crinklystarfish]

Directives are supposed to be enshrined in member state laws in whatever way the member state deems appropriate to realise them. They aren't just imposed using the exact wording that is spat out of the euro-process.

 

Could be some civil servant interpreted it in a way that johnny foreigner didn't. Or was fiddling his expenses form instead of paying attention at that particular para.

 

Could also have been amended / repealed by any number of other directives / domestic legislation since its inception.

[flicka]

Either the "Directive" was badly worded (not surprising) or it's impractical in application (again, nor surprising) but I have not read the full document.

If policed to "the letter" of the Directive, anyone using a temporary spare, would be in breach, as clearly there is a vast differential between the width of a "standard" tyre & a skinny temporary tyre. :'(

[Derek Uzzell]

flicka - 2013-05-29 10:56 PM

 

Either the "Directive" was badly worded (not surprising) or it's impractical in application (again, nor surprising) but I have not read the full document.

If policed to "the letter" of the Directive, anyone using a temporary spare, would be in breach, as clearly there is a vast differential between the width of a "standard" tyre & a skinny temporary tyre. :'(

 

The Directive is unambiguous (in French and English) regarding the requirement that 'same make' tyres be fitted to one axle. Temporary spare tyres are covered separately and specifically, so there's no width-conflict of the type you mention.

 

This 2010 discussion is probably as informative as any

 

http://www.france-forum-frenchentree.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=96476

 

Although tyre-related Directives have been amended regularly over the years, the 'same make/one axle' requirement is apparently unchanged.

[crinklystarfish]

As above, the wording of the directive does not have to be employed by member states. It is up to member states to create domestic laws that simply comply with the requirements of directives.

 

Directives 'direct' member state governments, they are not domestic 'laws' in their own right.

 

Absolutely no surprise then that different member states will have slightly different takes. Some member states simply don't respond to directives at all if they don't fancy them. Nothing much happens if they don't, apart from meaning that fat, rich executives have to travel in the lap of luxury across Europe to have meaningless bureaucratic publicly-funded meetings in which none of them agree about anything apart from the ease with which they can snuffle in the trough.

 

You would need to see the actual French and British legislation that enacted the directive to see what's going on.