Alanb

David, I added a note to the Motor Roam website some years ago. This confirmed that my 2006 2.8jtd has a flame starter. I would be surprised if your 2.8 HDI had the alternative heat flange. As I said in an earlier post the flame starter only operates below 0C Alan PS @david lloydyou have email.

Nice and simple. No glow plugs to go faulty, seize in head, and require specialist removal. With current trends biggest disadvantage is only Euro 3 compliant Alan

No, it will use the manifold pressure/temperature sensor on the inlet manifold. Alan

The 2.8jtd does not use glow plugs. Most common cold start device is a flame starter. This consists of a single glow plug/injector inserted into the input manifold. The brief, 0.5 second, operation of the glow plug light is a self check function only. For more information and short video see here. The "glow plug" and fuel solenoid valve are mounted on the inlet manifold, and the relay for the glow plug ia located under the "hood" at the rear of the engine bay. The 2.8jtd is reported as being capable of starting without this device down to minus 10C. I have not tried this, and the flame starter is described in Fiat eLearn as operating below 0C. (The alternative cold starting device is the "Thermal Starter" which is a 12V electric heater in the airflow at the input to the inlet manifold.) Alan

David's basic complaint is slow cranking speed, I have seen 150rpm quoted as a nominal cranking speed, but how do you measure it without diagnostic software? I sometimes think that my 2.8jtd (same basic engine) seems sluggish to start. Having thought about it, a non common rail engine can fire on the first compression stroke, which is my experience. On a common rail engine, it may take to 3 or 4 compression strokes before firing, this is because the ECU needs to determine the stroke for No.1 cylinder via the camshaft sensor. How many compressions strokes before firing wll depend on what position the engine last stopped. This delay can prolong the agony. Before making further alternative well intentioned suggestions, perhaps we should wait until David reports on the outcome of his visit to the auto electrician, of which I await the outcome with keen interest. Alan

The following is an extract from a current thread on the Motorhome Fun Forum. Rather disturbing, particularly if it also applies to the UK. "Edit: I've done some research. Maybe you already knew that (I didn't), but the OP was informed correctly In Spain (as in most European countries and UK?, I think now) the law only allows refuelling LPG as fuel for the engine. This is why gas stations may refuse to fill our motorhomes with LPG for domestic use." The whole thread may be viewed here. Alan

A minor correction. Negative, would be appropriate when referring to a direct current (DC) circuit when the positive is the live conductor. ( In some applications, negative can be the live conductor, One example being older automotive systems, where positive was connected to chassis/earth. Neutral is the name applied to the return conductor of an alternating current (AC) system, where the live conductor voltage oscillates between positive and negative with respect to the neutral. Thanks for posting the outcome. This is too often neglected, despite promises to do so. Alan

David, In order to avoid an attack of vertigo, due to twisting my ancient head around while examining your photos, peraps it is easier if I send you an extract of a Sargent wiring diagram. Unfortunately this is in pdf format so I would need a PM with your email address. I am not currently into converting pdf into a format compatible with the forum. From the above extract taken fo help with understanding a slide out step problem I have the following. Red/yellow = Fridge 12V element supply. Brown = Starter battery fused separately at 40A and connecting to both relays terminal 30 and also to 20A fuse after which it becomes brown/green. Brown/green is fused starter battery to Sargernt EC200. (From above). The so called "LeisureBattery" is shown as being fused close to the battery by a 20A fuse. The wire colour changes from red to brown/blue. This connects via an adjacent 20A fuse to the split charge relay terminal 87., and to the EC200. The above information is derived from a diagram relating to a more recent ECxxx unit, and may differ in detail, but the colour codes seem to hold. Hope that helps, Alan

David, Please do not be too concerned, I did add a smiley face. Another pet hate of mine is the use of the term "Flea Bay" to denote Ebay. Longer, and rather childish in my opinion. Users seem to forget or be unaware of the origins of an alternative supplier. Enough, I am hijacking your thread. Alan

I somewhat disfavour the term "electrickery". It makes us professional electrical engineers seem like magicians, when the profession is soundly based on science.🙂 In a PVC, finding space for a new item is always problematical, doubly so if it has a display or LEDs that need to be visible. With some of my modifications, I have had to create new cable routes by running cable trunking across the top of the inner rear wall of cupboards. I have also used brown trunking in a corner behind the driving seat. The result is not visually intrusive. Alan

Hi David, Thanks for the informative reply. Our 2006 IH Tio R, is based upon a Ducato 2.8jtd, so almost identical in engine and cab area. The relay associated with the towbar is probably, as I believe you already suspect, for fridge supply and battery charging in a caravan. I am not clear as to whether the Eberspacher is part of the MH conversion, or a retro fitted base vehicle option. If the latter I would expect it to be powered from the starter battery, which is not the best idea when using when parked. As regards fusing, I was referring to your proposal to run a cable for the habitation battery side of the battery master. This cable should be protected against possible short circuit, by a fuse close to the battery. The internal fuse in the battery master will not give such protection. However if you can make the tee connections at the Sargent unit with short lengths of cable, the additional fuse(s) could be omitted. Alan

David, does your vehicle have Sargent electrics? The wire colours in your photos are a close match for those used by Sargent to connect to Fridge and Split Charge relays. The only difference is the use of black for the relay coil negative connections. Brown, brown/green, brown/blue, and red/yellow for the fridge all appear in that part of Sargent wiring diagrams, with blue being used for the D+ connection to the relay coils. I am inclined to question as to why your auto electrician changed, either the split charge, or fridge relays, when investigation the Eberspacher supply. Perhaps you are able to operate the Eberspacher with the engine running? Otherwise these relays would not be operated, and not in the Eberspacher supply circuit? Unless the connections to your battery master are short, they should be fused as close to the respective batteries as is practicable. A possible connection site would be at a B2B, but the presence of the split charge relay suggests that a B2B is not fitted. Alan

I think that you should consider something more than a fused length of wire. One possibility would be to include a diode and current limiting resistor (possibly a low wattage 12V bulb). However the Battery Master marketed by Vanbitz is often used to maintain the starter battery. If DIY is not your thing, then worth investigating. Victron Energy make a similar device, but probably more expensive. I have never seen a Battery Master, but it is descibed as easy to install, with a fused connection to each battey, and one to earth (chassis). Alan

The x244 battery negative cable is connected to chassis via a crimped flag terminal below the battery, and forward of the RH engine mounting. The cable then continues under the intercooler and radiator, to terminate on an extended starter motor stud at the clutch housing. Corrosion can occur inside the flag terminal. Alan

If maintained in charged state, modern starter batteries should last longer that five years. A typical starter battery for a Ducato would have a capacity of approximately 100Ah (Capacity is measured in Ampere hours (Ah) not just Amperes (A), which is a measure of current.) The dimensions supplied by Derek relate to what is known as a Group 019 battery, which will have approximately the above capacity and similar dimensions. The primary task of a starter battery is to crank the engine, while supplying essential equipment. Perhaps the best measure of a battery's ability to perform this task is the Cold Cranking Amperes (CCA) which is defined by the American Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Simply put the higher the CCA rating, the better the battery will be at starting the engine. I do remember reading some years ago that Derek had fitted a Varta H3 chosen for its CCA rating. That has stuck in my memory, as I had made the same choice when my 2.8jtd starter battery was over 10 year old. I have recently replaced the non original battery on our 2011 1.9TTid Saab. After much consideration I purchased an Advanced Battery Services (ABS) own badged battery. The specification and price were competitive, and as they quote including delivery, price comparison is simplified. At least that battery performs better than the ageing Yuasa that it replaced, but to be fair it does have a higher CCA rating. I had previously used ABS for lawn tractor batteries, which have performed and lasted OK. More recently when reviewing possible candidates for eventual replacement of the Ducato 019 starter battery I short listed another ABS "Advanced XD" battery and an Exide E1000 017TE from Tayna Batteries. The Exide battery is currently cheaper. The specifications are similar. Unless you expect to deeply discharge your starter battery, which will probably shorten its life, do not worry too much about the alternator loading. Starting currents are large but of short duration, and hence the energy used is soon replaced. Habitation batteries are a different story. Alan

No information as to manufacturing year, or Ducato model provided. For x250 and x290 Ducato models, central locking and unlocking commands from the base vehicle, are presented at pins 4 & 5 on the 15 way socket embodied in the converters panel, at the base of the RH "B" pillar. As the output ratings are 12A max, it is reasonable to assume that these outputs are connected directly to the door lock motor. Alan

Why restrict the description to Peugeot Boxer? A Fiat Ducato of the same year will have identical shape. Alan

The Laserline alarm also connects with the central locking on my 2006 x244 Ducato. I managed to purchase a complete used fob quite cheaply on Ebay some years ago. It was not difficult to recode to match my vehicle, as I already had a working fob to copy from. The fob that I purchased was in a similar condition to @Raywill 's, and a replacement empty case was also obtained via Ebay. Perhaps all that is required is a new case, and not the complete fob. Apparently the case design has changed, but according to a dealer on Ebay the later T116 case will replace the earlier T108 case which is shown in Raywill's photo. Price £10.95. See here. Alan

Yes, I should have said starter battery negative. The habitation battery would require separate isolation when required. Alan

I would like to echo the sentiment of not replacing what is probably a perfectly adequate B2B. Phil will probably now realise this is quite different to a basic split charge relay. What should be considered, as I have previuosly suggested, is moving the relocated wires from the earth side of the current sensor to a true earth point. I appreciate that the wires may need extending, but it would ensure that the battery negative disconnector was fully functional. Alan

You have not previously mentioned that you had a Sargent control system. A quick web search reveals that the EM50 contains the step control system. Here is a link to their website. Check whether you have EM50 A, or EM50 C, before calling Sargent. Their customer service is reputed to be helpful. Alan

It is not possible to directly control an Omnistep with just two wires connected to a switch. The switch that @rooster63is referring to will be the input device to a separate control box. With this Omnistep control box, for which I have seen no details other than a hefty price tag on a Thule price list, there should be no need for a separate step auto retract relay. I am not aware as to whether Thule use a timed or current limited control for the step extension limit. (Sargent use a time limited extension.) The control box will probably contain two relays and a timer. It will need two supply wires, and two power ouput wires to the step motor. Add in the two wires from the switch, possibly another two from the step retracted limit switch, and you have eight wires connecting to the unit. So rooster63 needs to locate this unit, and check the supply, but the fact that he is measuring a low voltage across the switch does not suggest a blown fuse, but possible with modern sensitive multimeters, which can be misleading. Thule/Omnistep diagrams show manual control via the habitation battery, and auto retract power from the starter battery. No reason is given, so perhaps just a diagramatic convenience. Sargent use starter battery only. So perhaps the supply fuse can be found close to the starter battery. Alan

Cannot the battery monitoring app, be used to observe battery voltage as before? I am in general agreement with John as regards the need to move the wires/cables from the clamping bolt (battery terminal) to the other side of the current sensor or "shunt". Subject to the radio code being available, for the immediate short term I support proceeding as proposed. For the longer term, perhaps extend all four connections to the main earth point? This is because with both the present and proposed connections, the battery disconnecting device alluded to by John "Unclip the battery earth lead,,,,," is not effective for the four connections being discussed. Better to have a disconnecting device that functions as intended. Perhaps I am being too much of a "Jonah", but I spent my working career in enviroments where the guiding principle could be stated as "If it can go wrong, it will.". Alan

Thanks for the part number. Good picture on Ebay. Take care of yours, used price from Lithuania including delivery £68.40.

On our Saab 9-3, which has a similar "shunt" on the battery negative and diagonally bolted battery terminal clamps, the clamping bolt is M6 (10mm spanner), but the main current terminal, where the short earth connection is attached, is M8 (13mm spanner). I note that M10 has been mentioned in an earlier post. If the brown cables have been moved on @Goneoff's vehicle, then it is most likely that the original crimped cable terminations have been retained. These terminals will be oversize for the clamping bolt, and this may be apparent on visual inspection. So a possible confirmation that the cables have been moved? Alan Edit: I agree with John's post above, however I have used the term "shunt" in inverted commas, since it is more widely understood, as a current sensing device.