Guest Pol Emique Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hi Brian - I'm no dictator, just a reasonably informed, concerned citizen. But, yes, private helicopters and private (jet) aircraft, in my opinion, should be banned. If your neighbour wakes you up at 3 am by using a chainsaw, you tell him to put a sock in it, no? So why meekly accept the fact that one (rich? famous? successful?) person transported in a private jet,or helicopter, has the right to spoil the sleep of thousands just because they can afford to? This is legalised anarchy for the chosen few. (in my opinion). Unfortunately, democracy in the U.S. is funded by vested business interests. Most americans are very nice people, who care about the environment, but at each national election they are pressurised not to back a (penniless)loser (Nader) and weaken the chances of the Democratic party of winning. Ralph Nader (the green candidate) is ready to negotiate the 'American way of life' to help the planet survive and he regularly participates in US elections, but as he gets zero funding to spread the message, each time he gets nowhere. American democracy rhymes with mucho dollars. Talking about dictatorship in the context of environmental restrictions looks like a way of denigrating my views to bolster your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 And how did Pol generate enough spare cash to be able to afford a new 12 metre Yank RV? Would it be anything like taking advantage of Market Forces? Or perhaps working for someone who does? or worse of all selling Insurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest POl Emique Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I am an environmentalist,(amateur) not a marxist Clive. You don't have to be a pauper to hold strong environmental views. It's a common, but lowly, practise by people who are on shaky ground to try to disqualify their opponents views by some context or another. I said I could afford a large R.V (but would never buy one) because I had the impression that my opposition to them in this forum was being perceived as envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hello again Pol, Can you give us an acceptable yardstick then? What length motorhome is acceptible for the following :- 2 retired people enjoying their new found freedom. A familly of 4 including 2 children under 8. A familly of 4 including 2 teenagers. A familly of 6 including 2 under 8. Should they be Petrol or diesel or LPG. Don't forget that LPG is only produced as a by product of refining for Petrol and Diesel. Diesel engines roughly consume a third less fuel than petrol. Our half acre garden has not had any chemicals in it other than those made within it by nature for nearly 40 years. The garden did provide most of the vegetables for many years until we realised it was more cost effective to purchase it from Tesco over the road. Animals? we have over the years kept 5 goats, 36 chickens, 5 ducks, 100 rappits, 2 dogs and many cats. The Mrs writes the Nature Notes for the Village Magazine. But we both like big motorhomes (ours is UK not a Yank) and 4X4,s and Motorcycles. Our mobile interests are centred around hydrocarbons rather than carbohydrates. This becomes important with the onset of artheritis and osteoporosis. Or should we just sit at home if we are not allowed to drive for enjoyment? Plus Ham radio of course. So, how do we rate in your ideal world? If you look at the ecological aspects of trains you will find that they generate much more polution per passenger mile than cars. Score out of 10 ? The point here is that you cannot generalise. The mix is as important as the detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Ramsden Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Looks as if my sense of humour is not appreciated! Blaming "money" is the easy way out. People are just not yet convinced, despite the media having almost unreservedly taken on board the "greens" argument re climate change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Emique Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 There has been climate change in the past of course, but over much much longer periods. What we're experiencing now is an unprecedented raise in temperature (and an ever enlarging hole in the ozone layer)in a very short space of time. It is directly caused by our industrialised societies, not by the poor countries where the vast makority of the world's population lives. It will shortly lead to the complete evacuatiuon of certain Pacific islands (in the Maldives) and Tuvalu notably. Next, it will be the turn of Bangladesh, the Camargue region of France and indeed, parts of the British isles to be submerged by rising ocean levels. I suggest you adopt the Ostrich as your emblem when you parade in your 40 footers. Tesco, unless otherwise stated, is selling fruits and vegetables treated with potentially cancer causing chemicals. You'd be much better off continuing to grow your own. What are rappits?Pol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Rappits are little fury things laying on their backs. When they stand up they turn into Rabbits. The Camarge reagion of France is very low and very wet. We visit it most years, even use the chain ferry which I am sure you know of. Lots of Flamingo,s and almost storms of massive dragin flies. But how about answering some of the questions? Surely all the American people cannot be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Emique Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 As I've already said,as far as I can gather, most American people are nice people (though disarmingly naive at times)and a lot of them are very concerned about what the negative effect the habits of their less thoughtful fellow citizens are having on the environment. Be sure to transmit some pictures of you and your motorhome in the Camargue to your descendants. Then they will be able to marvel at how beautiful it used to be in the early 21st century before it dissapeared in the extensive flooding predicted for the region in the next 50 years - directly attributable to global warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coil Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Ahh I get it now Pol instead of having 40' RVs we should all buy 40' boats as we will be able to use them in an even bigger area in years to come!!!!!!! LOL Coil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Ramsden Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Pol, What you state as facts are not facts, they are theories, so it is intelectually dishonest to claim them as facts. If they were correct, then there would have been a general increase in sea levels over the last century, but this has not happened. Idon't think there is any point in continuing this discussion, especially on this forum for camping-caristes. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Emique Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Brian, Tell that to the islanders of Tuvalu, who are on the point of evacuating their island, that there has been no general increase in sea levels over the last century! The Greenpeace site will enlighten you as to what's really happening and what is very likely to happen in the future if we (in the western world) continue on our selfish road towards extinction. Of course, if you prefer not to think about these things, then you are still free to hop into your 40 footer and drive off towards the (final) sunset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T.Smith Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 With apologies to Bernard Thribb 17 1/2 years old. Well, goodbye then Tuvalu. Pol says It's R'V's and SUV's That are sinking you. Brian and Clive are skeptic and Derek is on a joker on this one. I hope your new lives in N.Z. will make you forget your atoll. which is also drowning in rubbish so I hear and that's NOT our fault. Tony S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 No, Pol has the fire in his belly and Clive is the stoker!! But I think he has worked that out by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Pol, Do you have a Motorhome or do you just freqent this forum for the sport? If yes, what is it? Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Emique Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Surely not for the sport. tv. or not tv. - that is the question.¨Pol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Norma Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 While we are using some of the worlds depleting resources has this posting broken any records yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 TV, or not TV: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The arrows and brickbats of outrageous claims, Or to take umbrage and find somebody else to blame, And by opposing end causing them to weep; And dream of even bigger Motorhomes in ones sleep, The heart-ache caused by sinking Tuvalu, That Pol is trying everything he can do, To steer the madding crowd to pastures new and green; To wake them up, the light, they must have seen, That forty foot monster we know its really bad, But for most of us its something we never had, For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, This debate has lingered and stood the test of time, The pangs of despised life stiles in some quarters did shine, But who can say that this lifestyle is really mine, This patient hermit from southern Englands shore, Will really try not to wind up that lovely Pol any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Clive you never cease to amaze me. Even psuedo Shakespear now. Even spelt as "old Bill" would have!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Emique Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 It's been a jive, Clive You had ne sighin', Brian and Norma and Neal came and went just like a Truma-vent. See you next time In public with another Polemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I just had to look it up! polemic 1. Of or pertaining to controversy; maintaining, or involving, controversy; controversial; disputative; as, a polemic discourse or essay; polemic theology. 2. Engaged in, or addicted to, polemics, or to controversy; disputations; as, a polemic writer. Origin: Gr. Warlike, fr. War: cf. F. Polemique. Source: Websters Dictionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Emique Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clive Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 And there was me initially thinking you were a Frenchman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pol Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Sacre nom d'une pipe - un francais! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Tut Tut! But I have said this B4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Docted Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Seeing as how this thread touched upon the bard of Avon and it now appears to be at an end does that make it:- "Much Ado About Nothing" There is however a quote from the Scottish Bard which may finish it off completely but your are going to have to guess which one. Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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