AL68 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 AL68 - 2011-02-06 7:13 AM This problem has rectified itself before the arrival and fitting of the new tried and tested board!!!!!! What have I done to help it? Apart from poking here and there, plugging and unplugging etc., nothing. I took it on a 50 mile round trip 5 days ago after which it was still not working. Another round trip of 10 miles yesterday after which I noticed it had come back to life. The battery condition may have improved a little I suppose. Perhaps there is a poor connection, dry joint, faulty component. Trying to locate a fault in a working system is going to be harder than ever. I was a bit too quick off the mark. I have just checked the fridge and the 12 volt side is not working. Also the outside light is not functioning. The battery condition meters report leisure battery is ok BUT the engine battery is flat which is clearly not the case as it starts and has taken me on a 16 mile trip this very morning. This would explain why the fridge is not working since effectively it only works when the engine / alternator is charging and running. The power distribution board thinks it is flat and not being charged I suppose. The outside light? If the D+ terminal is live then it is switched off to stop you driving away with the light on, now that suggests it is detecting a working alternator. A bit contradictory. I shall be carrying out all the checks that have been suggested in the other posts. Thanks to the contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 "If the D+ terminal is live then it is switched off to stop you driving away with the light on, now that suggests it is detecting a working alternator. A bit contradictory". No! it indicates the D+ is working, but you may not have a main 12 volt supply from the alternator. Check the leisure battery voltage rises slihjhtly when engine is started to acertain the alternator charge voltage is arriving their. It also feeds the fridge so a broken 12 volt feed from alternator would explain this. It probabably is wired, maybe not though, to the fuse panel at right hand ( near side) of dashboard below the small glove pocket. There wil be a fuse inline possibly with the cable and may be broken. It is also possible it comes direct from engine battery and there is a fuse there which is blown. Anyway, check again you have a 12 volt feed from the engine battery. I get impression you are giong round in circles with this one and need to step back a bit and start again. Its very easy to blow things as there are so many cables and connections and extreme caution and care is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-06 1:09 PM "If the D+ terminal is live then it is switched off to stop you driving away with the light on, now that suggests it is detecting a working alternator. A bit contradictory". No! it indicates the D+ is working, but you may not have a main 12 volt supply from the alternator. Check the leisure battery voltage rises slihjhtly when engine is started to acertain the alternator charge voltage is arriving their. It also feeds the fridge so a broken 12 volt feed from alternator would explain this. It probabably is wired, maybe not though, to the fuse panel at right hand ( near side) of dashboard below the small glove pocket. There wil be a fuse inline possibly with the cable and may be broken. It is also possible it comes direct from engine battery and there is a fuse there which is blown. Anyway, check again you have a 12 volt feed from the engine battery. I get impression you are giong round in circles with this one and need to step back a bit and start again. Its very easy to blow things as there are so many cables and connections and extreme caution and care is required. Well done, solved. I put the meter on the 12 volt feed from alternator to board at the board end. Nothing on main feed but D+ fine! However, there was power at the main fuse on the incoming cable from the alternator. A little gentle pulling on the cable between main fuse and power distribution board revealed a loose connection on the cable leaving the main fuse. All working now? not quite. Awning light not working (with engine off). I agree with your comments, a full systematic check is required. I have a feeling there are a number of contributory "faults" some of which I have not found and may be intermittent. That loose connection must have been present all the time I and others have been investigating. Two Motorhome dealership technicians have not picked it up which is not too surprising as it looks ok and power reaching the board has never been a problem. Makes me think the very first incident with the failure to charge the leisure battery may have been caused by the loose connection at the main fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Well if everything is working except the outside light then check 1st it is switching the output from the control board on and off, you may have a faulty light circuit or bulb blown, or indeed a switch on the outside light itself which is off. If the output is not switching check the fuse for outsidelights on the control unit. Teaching you to suck eggs now probably! sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-06 5:05 PM Well if everything is working except the outside light then check 1st it is switching the output from the control board on and off, you may have a faulty light circuit or bulb blown, or indeed a switch on the outside light itself which is off. If the output is not switching check the fuse for outsidelights on the control unit. Teaching you to suck eggs now probably! sorry. The final chapter? The awning light will not work unless the interior lights are on, which, as i was testing during the day were not! HOWEVER, I isolated the leisure battery with the key switch in the main feed, this in turn closes down all the 12 volt power supply to the habitation area. On switching back on I was back to square one with no 12 volt supply and two red LEDs flashing to indicate flat batteries I believe. I therefore took out the new power supply board that arrived this morning and replaced the old one which has given me so much trouble. Everything is working and continues to work after switching the 12 volt supply off and on again. Next project - try to find the problem on that old board or convert it to an emergency supply should I ever have a problem with the new board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Okaaaaay! getting somewhere now. Sounds like the old board is not doing a power up reset properly of the electronics. Incidently my comtrol box switches on the outside light without the interior lights being on, however it is an earlier revision of the unit. Very useful, go for a walk at night and leave outside light on to find way back, but leave inside lights off by using the control panel......AND, no, you are absolutely correct now I think about it, we have to leave the control panel on for inside lights and switch off at light fittings themselves. Whatever, I am pleased you seem to have fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 As that doesn't really make sense, Alan (not what you have written, but the suddenly working but previously diff board), I'm afraid I suspect you still have the original fault present. It seems to be intermittent, and I somehow doubt it is in the boards, but is elsewhere in the wiring, or the relays. Otherwise, I don't understand how isolating and reinstating the leisure battery could result in what you got, but substituting a previously faulty - but unmodified - board could apparently fix it. It couldn't be that key switch (which I'm pretty sure is non-standard) could it, or a bad connection to it? You found one bad connection. Was it a crimp on? I just wonder, since you say driving the van has at times made some differences to how things work, whether there are other inadequately crimped connections elsewhere making intermittent contact. One or two slightly loose connectors, that make and break connections when disturbed or vibrated, could produce all manner of odd effects. Or have I misunderstood "took out" and "replaced" in your post? I took that to mean you removed (took out) the new board after fitting it and then isolating at the key switch to find all was not working, and then reinstalled (replaced) the old board. On re-reading, I wonder! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Check your connections on the battery post when operating for some time and see if one is getting hot. As Brian points out looks like a connection. Have a good look at the earth connection at the battery pole and also where it connects to the body. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'll throw in my pennies worth now... Have you tried removing the red key switch and directly connecting the wires together? As everything worked before you 'keyed off' and wouldn't work when you turned it back on I'd suspect a poor contact in the key switch. One way would be to check for a voltage drop across the terminals of the switch when a load is applied. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-02-07 5:46 PMAs that doesn't really make sense, Alan (not what you have written, but the suddenly working but previously diff board), I'm afraid I suspect you still have the original fault present. It seems to be intermittent, and I somehow doubt it is in the boards, but is elsewhere in the wiring, or the relays. Otherwise, I don't understand how isolating and reinstating the leisure battery could result in what you got, but substituting a previously faulty - but unmodified - board could apparently fix it. It couldn't be that key switch (which I'm pretty sure is non-standard) could it, or a bad connection to it? You found one bad connection. Was it a crimp on? I just wonder, since you say driving the van has at times made some differences to how things work, whether there are other inadequately crimped connections elsewhere making intermittent contact. One or two slightly loose connectors, that make and break connections when disturbed or vibrated, could produce all manner of odd effects. Or have I misunderstood "took out" and "replaced" in your post? I took that to mean you removed (took out) the new board after fitting it and then isolating at the key switch to find all was not working, and then reinstalled (replaced) the old board. On re-reading, I wonder! :-)Brian,To clarify, I had everything working with the old board before the new board arrived. I then isolated the leisure battery with the key switch, waited a little while (10 or 15 seconds) and reconnected the leisure battery at which point all 12 volt electrics were lost again and the board has two flashing red LED's on the battery condition indicators. I unpacked and fitted the new board and all was well. I have since isolated the leisure battery a couple of times yesterday and just checked this morning and all is well. I have bypassed the key switch in my investigations but made no difference. I think its the old board but have an open mind. Will update the thread if anything new to report.Thanks for your help and interest.Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 onecal vw - 2011-02-07 5:54 PM Check your connections on the battery post when operating for some time and see if one is getting hot. As Brian points out looks like a connection. Have a good look at the earth connection at the battery pole and also where it connects to the body. Regards, Brendan Will do but I think its that board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Keithl - 2011-02-07 7:44 PM I'll throw in my pennies worth now... Have you tried removing the red key switch and directly connecting the wires together? As everything worked before you 'keyed off' and wouldn't work when you turned it back on I'd suspect a poor contact in the key switch. One way would be to check for a voltage drop across the terminals of the switch when a load is applied. Keith. tried that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I still think problem with old board is it does not reset properly when being powerd up. If you can post a detailed photo of the board could probbaly identify which components you should check as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Brambles - 2011-02-09 9:40 AM I still think problem with old board is it does not reset properly when being powerd up. If you can post a detailed photo of the board could probbaly identify which components you should check as a starter. Not quite sure how to post a photo file. Have checked the attach a file after posting, but after that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 AL68 - 2011-02-09 5:10 PM Brambles - 2011-02-09 9:40 AM I still think problem with old board is it does not reset properly when being powerd up. If you can post a detailed photo of the board could probbaly identify which components you should check as a starter. Not quite sure how to post a photo file. Have checked the attach a file after posting, but after that? failed because file too big - will see what I can do to shrink it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL68 Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 AL68 - 2011-02-09 5:14 PM AL68 - 2011-02-09 5:10 PM Brambles - 2011-02-09 9:40 AM I still think problem with old board is it does not reset properly when being powerd up. If you can post a detailed photo of the board could probbaly identify which components you should check as a starter. Not quite sure how to post a photo file. Have checked the attach a file after posting, but after that? failed because file too big - will see what I can do to shrink it. This should be ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Alan, Have PMed you with my email address to ask for un-reduced copies of pics so I can see clearer. However as a start I would look around IC1 the main large component which is a programmable Array, a bit like a processor in a away. I believe reset is on pin 19 and have circled possible components to check. This is all a stab in the dark at moment and may be way off the mark but worth a check visually. The PCB is quite clever actually, I notice they also have detection for blown fuses. Interesting PCB and circuitry. I will refrain from commenting on some of the design, unfortuately I get too critical because I have spend my life designing automotive electronics and testing components and maybe know too much for my own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikey1 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I have just been reading this thread and have a similar problem with my control panel not working. I'm just getting red lights flashing when I press the battery button and no lights and no pump and this is the same whether I plug into the mains or try to run off the leisure battery. THe starter battery is fine as I've been driving and the leisure battery isn't the problem as I've been into Halfords and tried a new one. I've tried disconnecting the battery to reset everything for 5 minutes and have tried disconnecting the cable on the back of the control panel to try and reset it that way. I'm away at the moment, and just wondering if someone could give me an idiots guide to how to bypass the control panel to get the pump and ideally the lights working again. If only the pump can be bypassed as mentioned in the thread above that would help a lot to get me through the next week! Hope someone can help please. Liam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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