Alan D Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Perhaps one of the prospective owners who will be at the Show with £50K+ to spend will enlighten me as to why they will do such a thing? I just do not get it, as I have just read the post by DJP and of course many others outlining the treatment handed out to them. there must be a reason I am missing. I know, of course that Fiat have the lions share of the availability, possibly because they can offer the cheapest base vehicle but with the huge retail price who would settle for the cheapest?. As they continue to outsell everything else they probably can`t see a problem. Back in the 60`s and 70`s most of the new british cars I bought were rubbish compared to the quality that is on offer today and buyers changed their loyalty for better products. Please don`t chop my head off for asking this emperors new clothes question, I just would like to be informed. My Renault auto has been absolutely faultless and apart from BH who sold it to me I am a very happy camper indeed but as I may want a new one soon,I am finding that the choice of Renault based vehicles is limited, perhaps because the base is more expensive than Fiats. It would terrify me to hand over £50-70K for a vehicle that has been so roundly criticised. Why are you all going to do it? Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Every single make of van out there has faults, so I would ask "why did you buy a Renault that has known weakness's?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Because of lack of choice? :-S I am interested in downsizing to a panel van, and there is really no van as wide as a Fiat and consequently none as practical....... You go to all the shows and the majority of campers are on a Fiat, so the consumer is stuck with little choice *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan D Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 So that`s the answer then, they are prepared to hand over a shed load of cash for a vehicle they know will give them nightmares. Not me, Ive had not a single worry in nearly 4 years and I will not be doing it. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The new Master in chassis cab and van form is being offered to end users at very similar prices to the Fiat Ducato so I see no reason for the converters not to be able to offer the conversions on either platform for similar money. Why do I continue to buy Fiat's even though they have a number of very frustrating faults (some of which are proving both difficult and terribly expensive to repair)? Because when they are new they look good, drive very well and are more fit for purpose than anything else, whatever the price. I do question my sanity everym time we cannot get injectors out or have yet another electrical fault though. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I can only tell you why i did and didn't? I had the rare (for me) oppurtunity to be able to buy a Brand new motorhome of my choice at the end of last year, but because of all the problems people have had with the X250 I decided that I wouldn't take a chance on one. However the van we wanted (an Autocruise Starburst) was only available on the Sevel base. We compromised and went for a 'Pre-X250' based one. So far we are very happy. But what we will do if and when we want to replace it ? we do not know. Hopefully there will be more choice by then. We hope so. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I too asked myself the same question two years ago - so I too, like Ray, chose to buy an older Boxer based Autocruise - and saved myself loadza cash - not to mention loadza aggro! Any regrets - none whatsoever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Alan D - 2011-01-20 2:12 PM So that`s the answer then, they are prepared to hand over a shed load of cash for a vehicle they know will give them nightmares. Not me, Ive had not a single worry in nearly 4 years and I will not be doing it. Alan. You've not answered my question as to why you've handed over a shed load of money for a vehicle with a known transmission fault. Just bacause yours has been ok that doesn't apply to others, and the fault is not related to reversing it happens in forward travel. not as prevelent as the pre-mod Fiats reversing problems, but possibly as prevelent as post mod Fiats , only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 One problem not mentioned above is that of the attitude of the manufacturer when things go wrong. From personal experience, Fiat don't want to know (especially one second after the guarantee is up), whereas with other makes, I have had a much better result. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdrive Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm with Judgemental on this one lack of choice. The majority of vans are bulit on the Sevel base, I want a Ford but nothing meets our requrements on a Ford Chassis, or even a Renault for that matter. I try and justify it by knowing that for that last 19 years we have holidayed in Italy, so it's going to break down while we are away I'd rather be in Italy with a Fiat! Touch wood neither of the Fiats we have owned have broken down .... yet. The only problem we have had years ago was with a VW - 4 days for a water pump in Italy. Don't know what we can change to next, off to the NEC in February for another look round, but without much hope of a resolution. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Just thought, in the interests of fairness I will answer you question first. We where considering buying a new van when the present model first came out, as luck would have it we where starting to build a new house at time so it wasn't a top proirity and as Adria didn't want to give us a discount that we felt approriate we put off perchase. When andy raised the problem I looked into it, I drive a few rental vans so soon became aware of the 'scope' of the problem and how to drive around it in most cercumstances, but I decided buying another make would be the sensible thing to do, we looked long and hard for layouts on another chasis we wanted but to no avail, I was considering DIY again, but since Fiat modded the the van I looked again at it and decided the problems of the modded van where proboly no worse than any other make so have decided to buy a new Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 spospe, A good friend (and customer) bought a brand new Transit Tourneo (2008) for use as a taxi and despite regular servicing at the main dealer he suffered a number of problems that left him without a vehicle for several weeks with no offer of any kind of substitute. He did 100,000 miles in a little over 14 months, mostly on the motorway and his engine failed. The dealer stated that it was due to a manufacturing defect but could only get a minor contribution from Ford. It failed again soon after the repair and both the dealer and Ford left him completely on his own. He did not have the resources to take Ford to court and needed his vehicle to be earning it's keep, so we sorted it out for him. This is a well cared for commercial vehicle doing the job for which it was intended. I have numerous examples of how Ford and Mercedes have failed customers very badly and sincerely hope that you do not ever have to ask Ford for any help. Fiat customer service is dreadful, but that seems to be more the rule than the exception these days. The best example of any vehicle is always the last of it's kind. It has always been this way. A 2006 (pre-X250) Ducato is an many ways a better vehicle than it's successor. The same was true of the older Transits and certainly true of the Sprinter before common rail injection. If I wanted to buy a camper it would be a 2004-2006 Ducato 2.8 or a Mercedes Sprinter 312 from about 10 years ago. Would never even consider a Ford. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Lack of choice. Very few motorhomes available that offer 4/6 berth on anything other than a Fiat. We did test drive a few Ford based vehicles. They wallowed so badly on corners they made family members feel travel sick. No point having a motorhome if the family won't travel in it. Fiat proved to be very stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Why do some people assume all fiats are bad?, my 3L is now nearly 4 years old, done over 20000 miles, so far been brilliant. While I can keep passing my medical I will be keeping it hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 euroserve I agree that you can have bad experiences with any manufacturer / dealer and Ford are not immune. Fiat has institutionalised customer indifference as a standard feature; the other manufacturers vary. My personal experience of dealing with Fiat is that their starting position has been to assume that they were right and I was wrong. The Fiat vans may well be of excellent driving performance, but my main criterion is not how well they go when they are going, but how quickly, easily and cheaply they can be fixed when they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Given that many of euroserve's vehicles have probably done in excess of 150000 miles I guess that he is better placed than anyone here to comment on the reliability of Fiat. The fact that he is continuing to buy Fiat suggests that the X250 is as good - or probably better - than anything else out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Clark Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I bought a new Fiat in early 2009 knowing that there was a reverse gear problem having followed the correspondence and reports in MMM. Call me mad if you will but I was confident that a Company as large as Fiat would come up with a fix. Admittedly it took some time, and I am grateful to those owners who publicised the fault and maintained pressure on Fiat. However once the fix became available I cannot speak too highly of Fiat and their agent, Huttons of Weston Super Mare who arranged the supply of spare parts and over 2 days undertook the gearbox conversion efficiently and to schedule. In 10,000 miles I have had no problems and find the Ducato to be a really good drive. The gearbox,particularly is a pleasure to use. I think it`s almost inevitable that the company that sells the most vehicles will also gather the most complaints. Big companies also suffer a degree of inerta and can`t move as quickly as small ones. So,yes,I like my Fiat Ducato and would hazard a guess that there are thousands of other owners out there who are equally satisfied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Simply because it was the only option with the layout and specification we needed. Having said that we did delay the purchase of our new motorhome, due for delivery in March, for three years longer than intended due to the problems with reversing. Talking to owners in the early days a big proportion seemed to have the problem but none of the drivers we talked to last year had any problems so it seems Fiat have at least gone some way to solving the problems. I did originally want to specify the 3l engine but I'm less than convinced that the clutch problems with this engine have been solved so settled for the 2.3. I don't know if it is true or not but I have been told that the gearing on the 2.3 is lower than the 3l and as a result there is little difference in performance on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJP Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Most of the problems if not ALL of the current problems are with the Fiat 3.0ltr on a manual gearbox. The 2.3 judder I believe has been cured by replacing the reverse gear with a more suitable ratio. The 3.0 ltr Comfortmatic seems to be currently fairy trouble free, which is amazing really when you consider the gearbox is the same as the manual version but with a box bolted to the side which electronically controls the clutch. How? by slipping it! I am amazed there have been no reported clutch failures on these models. The electronic box is obviously far cleverer than my brain. There again, that is not difficult. If I was changing the van I would have to say that outside of Fiat there is not a lot of choice without going RV/RS type route. It would have to be a 2.3 or wait for the X250 replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I have a 3ltr Autotrail that is 100% trouble free and runs like a dream, it handles well on the road with virtually no roll at all and is so smooth and quiet. The power that the engine develops with effortless low down torque makes all the difference when climbing hills as well. Now I've been spoilt forever and nothing else will ever live up to the same expectations as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 When we bought our first van in 2007 it was a Compass Avantgarde 140 on a Peugeot Boxer 100Hdi, 5 speed chassis. We drove all round France & Spain for 3 months and whilst it was a cracking van we realised we needed something with more storage if we were to go again. We did 9000 miles in 12 months and it never put a wheel wrong. We eventually settled on an Autotrail Cheyenne 660 and I did look closely at the Merc chassis. However we couldn't get one with sufficient payload and it was nearly 4 grand dearer than the FIAT. So we decided to go for the FIAT on the 130 6 speed chassis. It's been fantastic! It drives like a dream, is very comfy to drive and in the 2 years since we've had it we've done 19,300 miles and again it's never let us down. If anyone on a site asks me I tell them of my experiences with the FIAT, but I do point them to O&A Live and MHF to get the views of those who have had problems. Would I buy another FIAT? Yes, and I'm well aware of the problems some people have had, but I'd still go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Why buy a Fiat based motorhome? 1 They corner like they are on rails. 2 The drivers seating is comfortable. 3 The engines go very well 4 Fiat give converters by far the lowest price for the base vehicle. 5 Fiat give converters stonking finance deals such that others don,t come close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 So, 6, if you want any real choice on price, layouts, decor, makes, types etc, your van has to be Ducato or Boxer based. There it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (7 ) But if you are 'unlucky' and get one that can't reverse without Juddering. TOUGH ! You will be in for a World of Pain. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 That,s only a start. But the question was reasons why, not reasons why not! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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