nowtelse2do Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'll second that, even though I'm a Tranny lover (pre 2001)Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'll second that, even though I'm a Tranny lover (pre 2001)Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Why buy a Fiat ?? At least the Lada's had a heated rear window to keep your hands warm when pushing !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 For are now doing a specific motorhome 'wide rear axle' chassis - the new Tribute range of coachbuilts were some of the first ones to be built on it I believe, although others are now following suit, eg Chausson. Due to the problems with Fiats we made a decision not to get one if at all possible when we were looking to change last year. Fortunately, we found the type of layout we wanted was being done in similar forms by different motorhome manufacturers, on Fiat and Ford based vehicles. It just so happened that the exact layout, with the cupboard, storage etc arrangement which would work best for us, was actually the one based on the Ford so no contest ... had the Fiat one been our preferred exact layout though .... we'd probably still have the Rimor! I don't suppose it helps that I just don't like the look of the Fiat either ... still looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp as someone one said (possibly Mr Stothert?). I hasten to add though that the previous 2 marks of Fiat based motorhomes (2.8 non-turbo and 2.3 jtd) were very good, although the clutch on our baby Rapido wasn't perfect even then and it hated going up the levelling ramps (2003 model) - George Collings was very, very helpful at the time (thanks George). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 With all due respect to Nick he is a Rental Operator,yes he has lots of experience running Fiat,s and their associated problems,but at the end of the day he is running a business,any problems he has with vehicles is covered by running Cost,s paid out of the company profits, which is a business loss not a personal one which we Motorhome owners Face, so choice for us is crucial, also we paid top prices for Mechanics time (sorry technicians time) I dont know how Nick has his repairs carried out if in house cheaper than what we pay, I,m not decrying Nick in anyway I think he is a Great Asset to this Forum, but Balance is required when people are laying out tens of thousands of pounds for a vehicle,and I think any vehicles history of Problems brought to the forefront is an Aid to a prospective buyer, and how those problems were dealt with show,s the kind of Customer Service you expect to receive, and its no good thinking these Fiat vehicle bases are commercial and therefore you have to expect problems, thats rubbish, if as Fiat have done in the Past, they put out lots of Hype about this Present Chassis being designed and built for the Motorhome industry, then all the problems should have been ironed out before the vehicle was released, or at worse as they came to light, fix and modify them under warranty with out all the shenanigans we had over Juddergate, "I Still think your Ace Nick" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Corky, I accept your point in the vein that it was intended, and of course I am not offended. There are a couple of points that I think I should make though; First i should say that even if our Fiats cost only £15,000 to £18,000 we are entitled to a good standard of reliability and service from Fiat. That we do not get this any more than you do is a damning endictment of Fiat, but our experiences with VW, Mercedes and Ford have been as, if not more woeful. Our industry works within very tight margins, and when costs rise it really is enough to turn your stomach. Not only are we often left with a broken vehicle, we have to source another for the customer wherever ours failed (at great cost) and then when we have had ours repaired locally or recovered we have to get the replacement vehicle back to where it came from. It is not just a matter of my cost calculations going out of the window when something major goes wrong; I can easily lose all of the profit that the vehicle was supposed to make over it's entire life with us. As owner/director of the company, i assure you that this causes pain. It affects your ability to budget for the years to come, and leaves you wondering if this problem is the shape of things to come for all of your fleet. As stated above, we sometimes have to use remote garages and are at their mercy, we use our local dealer for some jobs when we are too busy, but for the most part, yes, we have a well equipped workshop with two 12 tonne ramps and prefer to do it ourselves. This does keep labour costs under control, but that is the way that the budgets were done. One point that you raised suggests that my message is not clear enough. Your £50,000 camper is 'only' £14,000 Fiat! I will leave you to ponder that one. The claims that the Ducato was specifically designed for campers is absolutely absurd. They made it a bit wider and a bit lower and offered one engine with a slightly different output; they then looked at the options that converters had chosen before and bundled them in a more user friendly way that makes the electrical wiring easier. That is it. I expect that one day they will regret those claims, especially as everyone was going to use it as a base vehicle anyway and there was no need to advertise in the camper van press. It only fuelled buyers' anger when it did not work properly. Finally I would say that my customers are the opposite of yourselves. They have little mechanical empathy, drive at all times like they 'nicked it' and blame someone else when they break it. If our vans are coping so well with this systematic abuse then the core vehicle cannot be all bad, and i would not be buying a load more of them this year. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Nick, I really like your van £50.000 Fiat chassis £14.000 bit.I was watching TV last night about Caravans etc, some really expensive and good looking caravans in the £18.000 - £20.000 range. And I was thinking, knock the price of the chassis, what, say about £2-3k maybe, put the van on a Fiat,Ford or whatever and hey-presto a luxury £29.000-£32.000 motorhome. Just saved mi sell 18k. Pass the cheque book, please. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Nick I envy you not, in-fact I know it must be hard for the likes of yourself trying to keep a business on the rails without all the fuel hike,s ,the cost of driver abuse albeit unintended etc etc. I trust your views on the Fiat saga are well founded, but when we buy a motorhome we buy a package not just the 12/14000 fiat chassis, we have put our faith (sometimes proven misplaced) in the Converter ,thinking the converter is not only driven by profit but pride and longevity in their Product, again often proven wrong, if I look at the Police and emergency services I can Honestly hold my hand up and say I have never seen a fiat in any of the services , which to me means they have done their homework on the right vehicle to buy, and the largest Majority of white van man are Merc Vw,Transit, perhaps I,m in the wrong part of the country.? ...... I do wish you good luck in this tough times of fuel rises, I can always park my M/H up without any loss of income should fuel go too high in price but what you. Safe journey,s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Lots of ambulances are Fiat based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Mel B - 2011-01-27 5:31 PM For are now doing a specific motorhome 'wide rear axle' chassis - the new Tribute range of coachbuilts were some of the first ones to be built on it I believe, although others are now following suit, eg Chausson. Due to the problems with Fiats we made a decision not to get one if at all possible when we were looking to change last year. Fortunately, we found the type of layout we wanted was being done in similar forms by different motorhome manufacturers, on Fiat and Ford based vehicles. It just so happened that the exact layout, with the cupboard, storage etc arrangement which would work best for us, was actually the one based on the Ford so no contest ... had the Fiat one been our preferred exact layout though .... we'd probably still have the Rimor! I don't suppose it helps that I just don't like the look of the Fiat either ... still looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp as someone one said (possibly Mr Stothert?). I hasten to add though that the previous 2 marks of Fiat based motorhomes (2.8 non-turbo and 2.3 jtd) were very good, although the clutch on our baby Rapido wasn't perfect even then and it hated going up the levelling ramps (2003 model) - George Collings was very, very helpful at the time (thanks George). Have to plead guilty here M'lud (Oops, sorry Mel - confusing you with JudgeMental) it was I that made the analogy of a bulldog chewing a wasp when the 'van was first released Having confessed to that, I should also confess to having bought one! We waited for the first two years to see what happened with the problems highlighted by Andy and others before eventually deciding to place the order for a new IH Tio RL on the 3.0l Comfortmatic. The decision was based on several reasons. The first being that ONLY IH build this layout on the Ducato with a fixed rear panel (Mercedes option too high, narrow and expensive though) which gives us a 'baby' coachbuilt. IH build quality we find much better than the alternatives. Finally, I sort of got used to the bulldog looks. Always found the Transit (again a bit narrow) to have quite a harsh engine in comparison. Now very happy with the 'van and had no issues arise so far but my final comment would be that no manufacturer would get my unswerving loyalty unless they were consistently meeting most of our needs. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 jhorsf - 2011-01-27 11:38 PM Lots of ambulances are Fiat based[/quote Absolutely correct. When we started Eurotruck in 1998 the Leicestershire ambulance service used Fiat's exclusively and had their own workshop that fitted air susp to all of them. We talked with their workshop manager a lot, and shared ideas. They swapped to Renault in 2005 because of the longer bodies possible with their very low floor chassis. They have tried Mercs and Iveco with little success. Totally Renault now, and although they do have engine and gearbox issues their manager said to me last year that he hardly ever has a failure while the vehicles are 'on the job'. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Well,having a Renault,I'm glad to hear that they've had no "major" failures(..and Nick,did you *really* have to tell me earlier that mine is known for electrical,gearbox and injector problem?..ignorance can be bliss you know!(lol) ) Most of the ambulances in our area are Renault..but I'd always assumed that they'd just been bought/leased due to price/maintenance packages etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 jhorsf - 2011-01-27 11:38 PM Lots of ambulances are Fiat based Purchasing of said vehicles must be regional, in Dumfries and Galloway all the Ambulances I have seen/been in are either on Merc or Vw Chassis, Ive no axe to grind with anyone owning a (spit) Fiat, it is after all Personal choice, I just have a bitter taste in my mouth over my experience with two of them, So No offence meant to anyone and safe Journey,s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think IH have one built on a MERC twin wheel, now thats more like it, Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 euroserv - 2011-01-27 8:03 PM One point that you raised suggests that my message is not clear enough. Your £50,000 camper is 'only' £14,000 Fiat! I will leave you to ponder that one. Nick This is a little misleading as £14,000 is the cost price the converter pays and £50,000 is the selling price. The converter would be expected to make a profit on the £14,000 as well as the habitation part. It could well be that the habitation bit also costs £14,000. Total £28,000 leaving £22,000 to cover build costs and dealers margin. Factor in marketing costs etc and it could be possible. Somebody in the know tell me I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I've been puzzling about the price of motorhomes in this country for a while - in fact, since I saw that Auto-sleepers want £50,000 for a Trooper Low Line. That's a basic rising roof VW camper. But the comment that Ford don't give decent discounts is interesting. If you look at the costs in Germany of Globecar motorhomes you can get a Globescout based on the Fiat 120hp for the equivalent of £31,000, or a Fortscout based on the Transit 115hp for £32,000. Both are the standard front lounge, rear fixed bed layout. OK, thats still a £1000 premium for the Ford, but it suggest that being part of the Hymer Group enables Glodecar to get some substantial discounts from Ford and makes the choice more one of preference than one of price. £14,000 for the Fiat:- you can pay much more for a Ford Fiesta. Not surprising that there can be a few rough edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Exactly! It's the same as complaining about a poor quality built in sat-nav at £1800 in a £30,000 car. Well nearly. In that case; everyone knows that the humble £200 Tom Tom is loads better at the job but it does not look so good, does it? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 and the same model van conversions from the likes of Globecar/Adria are nearly £10.000 more expensive in the UK *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan robbins Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 have just spent 3o minutes reading why buy a fiat. why indeed ?.bought a 522 hymer in 2007,loved it.at 6 foot 1 was a tad tight on space and the high first gear was irritating for a while but a couple of trips to france, harrogate and many trips round Ireland my shoulders ached.....high seat low windscreen.then to add hassle the dealer went belly up...by the way the 522 was on a transit 130 5 speed.... to donaghys letterkenny who look after hymer in ireland. i drive into their yard and sitting pretty is a 508cl ,rar entrence large lounge and a lovely big windscreen... no more hunching under the sunvisor to look out....But.......it's on a fiat...as james may would say 'cock'.....i'm ramblin.....on a ducato chas. 130 6 spd. drove it, loved it,bought it. a few little problems all quickly and efficentley by donaghys. on first trip to france discovered dreaded reverse gear problem.to the point,reported to donaghys they rang me back with a number in italy, they logged my call gave me a u.k. number,thi i rang and spoke to a very helpful gentleman who told me to get in touch the nearest fiat dealer.rang him back with these details and he got in touch with them.i brought van in on a monday got it back friday. no problem with reversing since. I have over the years driven just about every van there is....as far back as commer and cf...they all had thre own little quirks,,,,as will all these new 'vans'. well that's my fiat story hope it's of some use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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