RONROSIEM Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have a 2005 Ducato 2.0 JTD which is off the road for the winter. I run the engine periodically the last time being about a month ago when it started fine and I ran it up to temperature normally. Today it wont start. The 'Injection System Failure' warning light does not go out when I switch the ignition on. Can anyone offer any advice please. Is it a job that can only be done by a Fiat dealership? or could a local garage fix it. My nearest Fiat garage is 70 miles away. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 A bit more information would help, for instance does thr en gine turn over normally but fail to fire? Or does it turn over slowly? or does it not turn over at all? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Is there an alarm or immobiliser system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi. The engine turns over fine. I have topped up the battery charge and tried jump starting. Yes it does have an immobiliser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have no knowledge of how the engine electronics work on a modern vehicle but two things come to mind. First a phone call to the nearest franchised dealer for advice on the warning light issue. It may be a faulty sensor or only a dirty contact but knowing how and where to look is everything - and I don't sorry. Second, immobilisers, especially aftermarket fitted ones can cause issues. I had a similar sporadic problems many moons ago on a petrol engined van and removing the afterfit immobiliser cured it. Therefore I wonder if there is a way to bypass or disable the immobiliser if only to eliminate it from your enquiries? If the engine turns over OK can I ask why you tried jump starting? Hopefully an expert on ecu electronics will spot your question soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I had a Ducato of the same generation, and it had an immobiliser that was automatically disengaged when the key was inserted into the ignition. In a similar way to our present Ford, the key "talked" to the van electronics to disengage the immobiliser. Assuming the immobiliser is OEM, I suspect the key is not interacting as it should. Whether the Fiat key is powered by the (renewable) central locking battery, or by an irreplaceable rechargeable battery concealed in the key, that charges when in the ignition (as the Ford), I do not know.However, I had one odd experience when a light on the instrument panel stayed on and the engine turned without starting, which resolved when I turned the ignition off, paused, and then turned it back on, after which normal service was resumed. This sounds vaguely similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Its unlikely that you're going to be able to fix it yourself, you don't have to use a Fiat agent but you do need someone competent and up to speed with modern common rail diesels. Ask around locally for reccomendations but bear in mind they're going to have to come out to the vehicle and may need to recover it to their workshop so be prepared for a three figure bill. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Please keep us up to date with any cure as this is something we all dread happenning. My Iveco did this at a service and it turned out to be worn injector pump particles clogging up the system and the management system went like yours. The only cure for mine was new parts through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Have you got a spare key if so try that it could be the electronics in the key is corrupt do you have the keycard or the red key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Initially it turned over sluggishly so first thought was battery as the van had been idle for a month. Tried jump leeds just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks for all the feedback. The immobiliser is factory fitted. I have tried both keys with same negative result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Does the little padlock on the dash go out when turning on ignition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Yes. The only lights which stay on are the' battery' (normal) the 'oil' (normal) and the 'injection system failure' (not normal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Have you tried cracking the main rail and cranking up new diesel. You can do this with each injector and remove any possible water pick-up which is quite common. This is another good reason to use commercial boys additive as water passes through the injection system and otherwise acts like a blockage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 RON&ROSIEM - 2011-03-02 1:18 PM Yes. The only lights which stay on are the' battery' (normal) the 'oil' (normal) and the 'injection system failure' (not normal). Then I'm afraid my suggestion is US! Sorry. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Ron, A suggestion that has been made on here before to cure 'misfires' on Ducatos is to unplug, clean and reconnect the plugs on all the injectors and any sensor you can get access to. Also possibly the main ECU connector, again if you can get access to it. Worth a try as it costs nowt! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 RonandRosieM Before you do anything more, disconnect the battery, wait 30 seconds or so and reconnect. Then try starting the engine. You may lose the radio code and have to re-enter it as well as set the clock. This action will reset all the electronic modules as I suspect they got totally upset when your engine turned over sluggishly and voltage fell very low as a result. Disconnect battery by its negative lead and reconnect and give it a try, its the 1st thing you should have tried after recharging it and still failed to start. You have nothing to lose and all to gain if it is successful. Let us know how you get on. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Tried the battery disconnection option (also suggested by my Fiat garage) but still no go. I'm not up to cleaning injectors etc. so it looks like I will have to gulp and get it towed in and fixed. Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to make suggestions. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Get quotes first, then maybe join the AA and get home start :D Oh........ dont forget relay :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Considered Homestart in the past (we are with Green Flag/Mayday) but it only covers a tow up to 10 miles. We live in darkest Wales and have only one garage inside this limit and if it is a job they can do they will come out. Nearest Fiat garage is 70 miles away. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Another possibility is that there is, I believe, on most common rail diesels, a low pressure pump at the fuel tank, which "lifts" the fuel to the HP common rail pump. We had a car that suddenly totally refused to start, on our drive, a few years back. Turned out to be the failure of the low pressure pump which in turn signalled its failure to the electronics, and basically shut them down. The engine cranked, but nothing happened. This is to prevent the HP pump running starved of fuel, which would terminally damage that. Easily diagnosed once hooked to the right diagnostics, so whoever comes to assess it, ideally, needs to be able to read the fault codes on the spot. If your local guy can do that, fine, but if he can't, it may pay you, ultimately, to either get the Fiat agent out with his gear, or get it straight over to them. Someone spending time trying, and then failing, will simply result in two bills, instead of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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