CliveH Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Some may like to ponder this:- http://abcnews.go.com/International/bomb-dog-dies-seizure-moments-handler-killed/story?id=13104884 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Sorry Clive -- that is OTT! If a perfectly reasonable opinion is posted, i.e. that those of us who would rather not be subjected to dogs, anywhere near to the space that we wish to inhabit, should at least have the opportunity to express that (perfectly reasonable) view without being insulted and labelled with that disgusting dog disease as a cheap insult. The existence of rabies on mainland Europe is on good reason for not going there, in my opinion. If you do know of sites where dogs are not allowed, I would be very grateful if you could furnish me with details of them. As for: "I don't like dog's"... etc.,are we saying that we want them banned? No, I am saying that those of us who find them very difficult company should have a choice -- one that the child phobics among you seem already to have. The use of obscene language on your part does not help your argument to have much validity I feel. As I have already indicated. I, too, who believes that all 'pet' dogs are an abomination (for the very personal reasons that I gave -- I was blinded as the result of a dog - 'donated' parasitic worm after all!) was also moved (to tears) by the tale of the wonderful and totally loyal Theo, and did 'ponder' it as you did too -- BUT -- just because that amazing animal doing a job for mankind (and should get a posthumous Dickin Medal for it!)shows the sterling qualities of its species/breed it does not mean that the world's resources should be depleted by the millions of unnecessary pet canines spreading disease & dirt around the world. No, Clive,in my considered & rational opinion ( and you are entitled to your contrary one, as a dog-lover) dogs should only be kept for a purpose, i.e.useful work, should be registered for that occupation and should no more be allowed inside a public building that smokers are -- they pose just as much of a hazard, in my opinion. And, in conclusion, I don't believe that my 'claptrap', sanctimonious or not, is any more deserving of scorn than your mawkish and sentimental rubbish about 'man's best friend'; dogs ( and their owners) should Know their place and not inflict themselves on the rest of us. As this is, of course wishful thinking on my part, and is not going to happen in this dog- infested country of ours, then all I ask is that, as motorhomers, that we might have the option of space, away from the nuisance, just sometimes, -- is that too much to ask? Is that the kind of response that you were trying to extract Clive, with your extreme language? If so you have succeded - as I usually keep this stuff to myself -- particularly in the company of dog owners! Sorry, Mike, that may be cowardly -- but it is a form of self-preservation in the face of overwhelming odds -- as you found when you posted here! Happy motorhoming folks, (with or without doggy company) Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 While some of the views expressed on this thread have been strongly-put (to put it mildly!!) I can't help thinking that the idea behind the OP was quite reasonable. The important thing is that we should have the INFORMATION, before we book, as to whether or not a particular site permits children or dogs (or indeed anything else we want to either avoid or take with us!). Then we can each make our own choices about which sites we use, and market forces will provide more of whatever most people want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I agree there should be a lot more no dogs allowed sites so I do not have to share a site with dog hating people but I guess you are in the minority as there is very little call for no dogs allowed sites or there would be more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Whilst I am more than willing to accept that some people do not like or wish to associated with dogs, I find some of the comments made by the 'anti-dog' brigade quite derogatory, both to owners and to the dogs themselves. If you do not want to go on a site that has dogs on it, then ask the sites themselves if you're not sure. There are some that do NOT take dogs as I have definitely seen this indicated on several when looking for places in the past, even some of the reviews in the MMM mag have said so. If we want to stay somewhere we have to check that dogs ARE allowed, you just do the opposite and check they are NOT allowed. So it is a case of do your research or, if you feel so strongly, start your own campsite index catering for the 'anti-dog' brigade. Colin, I am sorry about your experiences and would not wish them on anyone, but I hasten to add that you should not condemn all dog and dog owners in the way you have, no more than I should condemn 'anti-dog' people as idiots for not liking dogs (which I don't think they are!), or even all children as being nuisances on camp sites etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 There does seem to be more sites abroad where dogs are banned ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Given the proportion of dog owners on sites any site banning dogs would also be passing up a high percentage of potential clients. Many of us go motor-homing just because it enables us the freedom to take our dogs with us. It's one of the reasons our way of life is so popular. Almost every child we meet wants to stroke our dog as do many adults. However I do agree that we should all be responsible ensuring our dog is not making a nuisance of itself and spoiling the enjoyment of others. Obviously we should always clear up after our dogs and not just on site either. We were on one site and I set out with our dog and two bags in my pocket. Unfortunately on the way back I needed a third so I stuck my umbrella in the ground to mark the spot while I went and fetched another bag. I would appreciate it if the thieving toe rag who nicked said umbrella would return it! On this occassion I do hope they at least steped in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Agree Colin And as for an over the top response - well I think we have one from Symbol Owner. I use the term "Rabid" purely because I feel the anti dog brigade are so abnormal as to be that strange. As for my use of obscenities I referred to the anti brigade as propagating the "I don't like dogs so why don't we ban them bo11ocks" Which is a very mild rude word and one that sums up the anti's very well in my book. As I said before - there are lots of sites were dogs are banned - you can find them in the various listings by way of their NOT having a piccy of a dog. As for dogs being allowed only if they do a job of work - mine and most others do. Companionship, safety and protecting property. Try breaking into our house, car, caravan when the dogs are inside it and you may get away but you would be missing some body parts! All they ask in return for this job of work is a good home with a loving family - and that they get. I personally believe that a child not brought up with animals - dogs in particular - misses something about life that is really special. But the reality of the situation is that as others have said on here - we tend to have motorhomes or caravans BECAUSE this enables us to take our dogs. Sites recognise this and so more sites accept dogs than do not. So what does that tell you about the position and mind set of the Anti-brigade? If you know that a group of individuals on the whole like taking dogs on holiday with them - why oh why act like a troll and poke a stick at them? It's a bit like going to a Harley Davidson Forum and posting that you don't like motorbikes. Or posting on a Land Rover Forum that 4x4's should be banned. Everyone is welcome to their view - but if you view is unusual and not in the majority - do not be surprised if you get told what others think in no uncertain terms. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Interesting bit of logic there from CliveH. He suggests: Going on a Harley Davidson website and saying you don't like motorbikes or Going on a Land Rover forum and saying you think 4x4's should be banned is like Going on a MOTORHOME forum and saying you don't like DOGS. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I think the biggest problem in this thread is that people are being labelled as either dog lovers or dog haters, and that is really quite wrong, there is plenty to suggest that even dog owners prefer to go to sites that do not allow dogs. My last 3 dogs have been Great Danes, and I have grown up in households that have always had dogs in them, and yet I prefer staying at sites where dogs are not allowed, and this is why. I believe, as do most dog owners, that my dog is extremely well behaved, and causes no problems, now this may be true, in the normal course of events, but put a dozen or so dogs in close proximity and it's usually a recipe for disaster. There is always one that will start barking purely because there are other dogs about, that starts off a chain reaction, now it doesn't matter how well behaved your dog is, it is their natural instincts that take control, just the same as there is always one dog that will snap and snarl at other dogs, it's what they do, so I prefer not to put my dog in that situation ( plus the fact she takes up 3/4 of the van), and because inveriably, she will get the blame just because she's the biggest one there and has "obviously appeared threatening" to the neighbours yorkie(or similar lapdog, so as not to start off the yorkie owners *-).) So a little more tolerance from both sides would lead to better understandings, and everyone should try to resist the placing of people in one camp or the other, because not everyone who prefers non dog sites is a dog hater. For years on this forum I have had to listen to people accusing me of not being tolerant of other peoples views, and yet on this subject (whichever side of the fence they sit), their tolerance goes out of the window. A lot of dog owners cannot seem to accept that not everyone likes dogs, and furthermore, feel the need to go down the whole "dogs are better than humans" route. And non dog people should accept that some of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yes - when it has been already stated that a many caravanners and motorhomers use said caravans and motorhomes BECAUSE they want to take their dogs on holiday with them. That is why so many sites are "dog friendly" Do keep up Malc (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 CliveH - 2011-03-13 6:41 PM Yes - when it has been already stated that a many caravanners and motorhomers use said caravans and motorhomes BECAUSE they want to take their dogs on holiday with them. That is why so many sites are "dog friendly" Do keep up Malc (lol) There are over 13000 users on this forum. How you know what the majority think I don't know. ( I might be just one of 12500 or more who wouldn't dare give any views about dogs ) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Here's a photo for the dog LOVERS amongst us......... And one for those who need convincing. You decide which one applies to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Perhaps the anti dog brigade should be aware as Tony should have warned you dog is GOD spelled backwards. As to no dog sites I have to tick the dog box to ensure my best friend is welcome. I was not going to respond to this thread as it must be a wind up but I'm always up for a laugh. John *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm afraid Clive's missing the big point about motorhoming - FREEDOM! Freedom for those who want to take their dogs (or cats, or children, or grandchildren, or rhinoceros) with them in the motorhome (some B&Bs wouldn't welcome any of the above!). Freedom for those who prefer their holidays WITHOUT dogs (or cats, or children, or rhinoceros) - even if they quite like them at home! And, Clive there are some of each - hard as that may for you to accept. So your parallel with Harleys and Landrovers falls down. So as I said above, what everyone needs is INFORMATION, not CONDEMNATION. As long as each of us can find out where we can go, to enjoy our motorhoming the way we want to, why should that be a problem for anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Tony -- thanks for that -- a fund of good sense/tolerance as usual -- I couldn't have put it better myself! Same for Donna ( your first post -- I shouldn't comment on the pics. -- but Koreans might find the first one tasty!) a really sensible and tolerant post, with which I heartily agree. Mel -- you dog lovers/owners are sooo defensive! I'm sorry, I didn't intend to condemn either dogs or dog owners and didn't mean it to come across that way -- they were just observations from my own (probably skewed) point of view. It feels as though I am the 'anti-dog brigade' on my own now, as the OP seems to be conspicuous by his absence! I can assure you that I am not anti-dog, or anti-dog owner, except, perhaps, when they are totally irresponsible, which, according to all of you dog-loving posters, ought to be allowed! The ironic thing is, that now my sighted eye is beginning to fail (I had a recent vitreous detachment and have had a small cataract for a few years)and if I were to become totally blind, than I suppose I could possibly be offered a guide dog! there's a thought! Clive probably doesn't believe this, as he seems to hold the strange view that it is 'abnormal' not to appreciate the close proximity of the canine species, but my wife and I really could not believe, when we spent our first night on a campsite, only just about a year ago, that out of all of those motorhomes should come a veritable horde of dogs of all shapes and sizes, behaving just as Donna describes -- kicking up a dreadful racket! I really believed, until that moment, that if a dog owner went on holiday they would leave the animal with friends or family or put it in kennels -- surely that was the way of it years ago? I'm not trying to 'poke a stick' at anyone Clive -- I genuinely did not believe that any one would travel with a 'mutt' in a motorhome, certainly not that they should buy a 'van so that they could do so. How do you cope with the smell? Probably as we did when I smoked a pipe for 30 years -- you get inured to it! I expected to get told what people think -' in no uncertain terms', but, Clive -- 'Sauce for the goose' etc.! It really isn't that unusual to hold the views that I do, and, as for being in a minority, I'm not sure that that is always the case -- as has already been said. Any way , thanks for the tip about the dog symbol -- I had never even noticed it -- or realised its significance. As two others have said, it is probably due to commercial reasons that most sites welcome dogs -- fair enough -- they have a living to make.I don't under stand you 'mindset' jibe -- so I'll let it pass, but if you really knew what that vile disease rabies was like -- nearly always fatal , with death being accompanied with terrible pain for the sufferer of the disease, I don't think that you would be speaking so lightly/flippantly about it. I've said enough, perhaps this 'thread' has run its course too. Colin. P.S. Teflon 2 -- sorry to disappoint you -- this was no wind-up -- this was deadly serious. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thanks for the promise of a PM G&D --it so happens that we have booked to go to the I of W at the end of this month! We would be really grateful for the info. Thanks again, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I am sorry if anyone is petrified of dogs. I really am – but as my wife is TRULY petrified of spiders I have some idea of what you go through when confronted by a subject of your fear. I would say tho’ that there are very good counselling treatments that helped us and could help you as well. But rather than pick holes in the examples I give – which I still say are valid given the sheer number of dogs that are taken in caravans and motorhomes – have a look at what I actually said _ “Everyone is welcome to their view - but if you view is unusual and not in the majority - do not be surprised if you get told what others think in no uncertain terms. ” So yes I do think the examples I cite are relevant in that anyone that posts the following:- “What we don't like is dogs on sites. Even if their owners 'clean up' after them there will still be a residue on the grass. We don't allow our grandchildren to defecate and urinate on the grass or near the paths outside the site.” I do clean up and all good dog owners do. But are you going to ban or shoot foxes and cats and all other wildlife because no one “picks up” after them? And as for not letting the grandchildren poo and wee on the grass – good – well done. But I have seen some other parents letting their children do exactly that – in a swimming pool and all around where we all sat! Also the Toxocara card is always played by the anti-dog brigade – “My friend has a friend who was blinded in one eye by a dog owner who did not pick up the dogs poo” Well lets have a few facts here- this lifted from Wiki: Toxocariasis is an illness of humans caused by a larvae (immature worms) of either the dog roundworm (Toxocara canis) or the cat roundworm (Toxocara cati). Toxocariasis is often called visceral larva migrans (VLM). Depending on geographic location, degree of esoinophilia, eye and/or pulmonary signs the terms ocular larva migrans (OLM), Weingarten's disease, Frimodt-Moller's syndrome, and eosiniphilic pseudoleukemia [1] are applied to Toxocariasis. Other terms sometimes or rarely used include nematode opthalmitis, toxocaral disease, toxocarose, and covert toxocariasis,[2]). This zoonotic, helminthic infection is a major cause of blindness and may provoke rheumatic, neurologic, or asthmatic symptoms [3]. Humans normally become infected by ingestion of embryonated eggs (each containing a fully developed larva, L2) from contaminated sources (soil, fresh or unwashed vegetables, or improperly cooked paratenic hosts[4]. Toxocara canis and Toxocara cati are perhaps the most ubiquitous gastrointestinal worms (helminths) of domestic dogs and cats. There are many 'accidental' or paratenic hosts including humans, birds, pigs, rodents, goats, monkeys, and rabbits. [5]. In paratenic hosts the larvae never mature and remain at the L2 stage ................... Right – so whilst you can get infected by rolling about in the dirt when a kid and a dog at somepoint over the last millenium had an egg laden dump, you can also get the problem from Cats and Foxes poo and eating unwashed vegetables or undercooked meat. • There are around 24 million UK households and, in 2002, the number of households owning dogs was 4.8 million. (latest data I could find) • 21% of households with dogs have more than one. • The highest levels of dog ownership are among the 45 to 54 year-old age group - around 30%1. • There are around 6.8 million dogs in the UK2. • It is estimated that the dog population of the UK produces 900 tonnes of faeces every day3. • Over a ten-year lifetime, a dog can produce up to half a ton of faeces4. There are about 12 new cases of Ocular Toxocara diagnosed annually in the UK.( Source - the UK Department of Health) So ignoring the household that have more than one dog, based upon this data there must be at least 4.8 million dogs. But only 12 cases of Toxocara ocular infection. That is 0.00025% even if we assume that in every case, the infection sources was via dogs bum rather than a foxes, or a cats or from eating unwashed vegetables or from eating rare meat! Based on this sort of percentage I think we should ban all sick people from hospitals as the incidence of C.dif is a real killer and the incidence is far far higher in these places than the liklehood of getting an infection from a dog on a camping site. (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 To G and D & Symbol Owner.. http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/articles/view.asp?id=377 Chris ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 G and D - 2011-03-13 11:22 PM Would those dog owners .......................... also be happy for someone elses child to run up to them and rub their ice-cream over their jeans? . I don't mind that, it's when the little buggers put their heads up my skirt and sniff my butt. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Donna -- great! I love your sense of humour. I am useless with computers and haven't yet discovered how to use those smileys/emoticons, so you'll just have to believe me when I tell you that you had me 'cracking out' with laughter! Thanks a bunch, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisB Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 donna miller - 2011-03-14 11:10 AM G and D - 2011-03-13 11:22 PM Would those dog owners .......................... also be happy for someone elses child to run up to them and rub their ice-cream over their jeans? . I don't mind that, it's when the little buggers put their heads up my skirt and sniff my butt. :D Dogs or owners? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Symbol Owner - 2011-03-14 11:37 AM Donna -- great! I love your sense of humour. I am useless with computers and haven't yet discovered how to use those smileys/emoticons, so you'll just have to believe me when I tell you that you had me 'cracking out' with laughter! Thanks a bunch, Colin. When you type your message the 'emoticons' are on the left hand side of your screen. Just click on the one you want to use. ( Not everyone agrees about what they all mean, but don't worry about that). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Go on............ show your Emoticons (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 :-D Sorry Malc. but when I click on them I only get the sort of symbols you see here and at the beginning of this screed: B-) 8-) :-> etc. ..... I dont know how to correct it -- that's what I meant! we all have to learn, and I haven't got there yet -- or am going into the 2nd childhood phase ..... ( there is a good emoticon or two to go with that....) cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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