penguin9 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 We have an Elecsol 110 amp leisure battery on our 2010 Auto sleeper.I was thinking of adding another,to raise our off hookup time.So i logged onto thier website to enquire about weight,cost,and maintenance.I found some quite amazing information regarding charging requirements.Firstly,the on board charger will only charge to 13.8 volts.This represents only 80% of the original capacity.The required full charge voltage is 14.4 volts.Furthermore Elecsol state that this lower charge voltage will cause sulphation of the plates and reduce its life.They recommend occasional charging by an independent method to boost the voltage to 14.4 volts and thus prolong the life of the battery.I,m amazed that this information has not resulted in a more reliable original on board charger.The control panel has never shown a reading of 13.5 volts on our leisure battery.It seems that at the moment,our 110 amp battery has reduced to 88 amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin9 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Should have read ,never shown a reading above 13.5 volts.Apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Which is why many of us put a properly regulated solar panel on t'roof! To be fair the leisure battery does get a higher voltage via the alternator - but only at a max of 10 amps - so a flat leisure battery takes quite a few miles to recharge - assuming the wiring connections and fuses are not dirty or loose! Progress eh? Don't you just love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Where do you get the Max 10 Amps from Tracker? Generally 10 amps average is used for a 100 Ah battery to work out the time taken to almost fully charge. It starts very high and than falls off as the battery charges. Also the vehicle is probably charging to 14.4 volts and falling back to 13.8. After a long drive it will happen so fast it has not been noticed. So read the specifications/manual for the on board charger. Some on board chargers will only cycle up to 14.4 volts after they have seen a drop below a certain voltage. Easy to test, draw off some power like leave a lights on for an hour or two and then plug in the hook up lead and see what happens. As to 88Ah mentioned, its closer to the truth but for another reason. Elecsol 110 is NOT 110 Ah, That is based on the C/100 rate, so is really only about 90 Ah in normal terms which is the C/20 rate. If you are charging to only 80% then you have even less than you thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin9 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 HI Tracker,The Autotrail has a factory fitted solar panel fitted,and it still will not charge above 13.5 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Hi Penguin9, Do you have an AutoSleeper or an AutoTrail as you mention both in your posts on this thread? If it is an AutoTrail then I do not believe they have ever fitted Elecsol batteries as standard and so the Sargent charger/PSU will not be set up to charge one. A call to Sargent electrical will confirm or deny whether they are able to charge Elecsol batteries. For info AutoTrail currently fit Platinum VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) AGM (absorbent glass mat) leisure batteries as seen by many at their recent factory rally open day. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Brambles - 2011-05-26 9:35 PM Where do you get the Max 10 Amps from Tracker? I'm not conversant with all the theoretical stuff Jon but whenever I checked the alternator charge rate at the leisure batteries I found it to be about 10 amps when the batteries need charge and the engine is running above fast tickover. My need to check only ever happens when there is a problem with low battery power so at that point they do certainly need a boost but can only ever seem to get a maximum of about 10 amps via the alternator. Now at 10 amps max into 2 x 110 ah batteries it seems to me that a lot of miles will need to pass to fully recharge them? My knowledge comes purely from experience - plus what you and others have taught me on here - so I am happy to be corrected as I am still learning! Since the fitting of two new Varta batteries and a regulated solar panel last year I have had no problems - but then again what with moving house the van has not seen as much use as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 It has been said on a number of forums that limiting the charge to 13.8 volts stops batteries 'gassing'. Whether that is true or not is for someone else to say as I do not know otherwise. If it turns out to be true then you have had good advice to use an independant charger now and again. My van appears to charge over 13.8 volts but if it did not, I have an ancient charger that reaches 15 volts. 8-) That voltage should certainly shift any chemical muck on the cells. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Hi Tracker Our Autocruise Sportstar - Leisure Battery charging will peak at 14.4v from the on-board charger & 14.2v from the Alternator. It's fitted with the Nordelettronica charger/control system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Intersting point John. Maybe the Nordelettronica system is more efficient that the Sargant system because I never get anywhere near 14.0 v on mains hookup? Not that I ever use it on site - only ever used to use it at home in the pre solar panel days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Tracker, it looks like your Sargent system just has a 2 stage charger so will be limited to 13.8 volts. Many systems have 3 stage chargers such as the Nordelettronica system. So looks like Penquin9's charger may well only charge up to 13.8 volts. Therefore ideally it is indeed best to put on an external charger now and again to give it a maintenance charge up to 14.4 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 That's an interesting point of difference between on board chargers. I always assumed that they all did exactly the same job because they are all basically the same and produced to the converters specifications to maintain 12v batteries whilst on site with no real intent to fully charge the batteries? You live and learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Tracker - 2011-05-28 2:52 PM Intersting point John. Maybe the Nordelettronica system is more efficient that the Sargant system because I never get anywhere near 14.0 v on mains hookup? Not that I ever use it on site - only ever used to use it at home in the pre solar panel days! Maybe the Nordelettronica system has a greater output than the Sarget system, but more efficient NO. Many including me, have had the Nordelettronica chargers fail & Swift Group have now reverted to Sargent. Also appears Nordelettronic may have sucumbed due to the recession. (se my earlier "Nordelettronic in receivership" thread). So just hoping mine doesn't fail again !!!!!!!!. >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin9 Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Hi Keith ,sorry about the confusion,we have an Autotrail Navaho,now 8 months old.It is fitted with an Elecsol 110 amp carbon fibre monoblock body,leisure battery.my original gripe was that the onboard charger could not recharge to its optimum voltage,and that this problem should have been sorted at the design stage.It seems a bit of a pain to use another bought in charger to prolong its usefull life.Many thanks to all the posters who replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the underlying problem is that motorhome/boat/caravan chargers are not truly chargers, but transformer power packs that also charge batteries. What the clever electronics can't overcome (so far as I know), is that the desirable charging voltage for a 12V battery is too high a voltage for most installed 12V equipment (mainly light bulbs and heater control panel, but also possibly TVs, satellite equipment, radio/CD etc). Thus, the choice is between an undercharged battery, or overcooked kit. Generally, the undercharged battery is the cheapest way out. However, I think I remember reading somewhere recently about a charging regime that incorporated a load monitor, and would switch to a higher rate charge when no load had been detected for a set period of time, generally intended to work overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smifee Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Re 'Gassing' I have 4 x 125Ah Elecsol batteries. They are charged by 3 'high charge' sources:- 2 x 75W solar panels, Sterling B2B charger & a mains charger. In the 6 years they have been fitted I have used 10.5 litres of top up. I check them about every 6 months & the last top up used 3 litres. I have assumed that this high amount of top up is due to the high charging systems. Does the increasing top up required mean the batteries are starting to fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Batteries will use more water as they get older and deteriorate. Elecsol are also quite high on water consumption anyway and the high amount of charging you are giving them will not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Leisure-battery charging is covered in some detail in John Wickersham's book "The Motorcaravan Manual" (which every motorcaravanner should have in my opinion). It's not really rocket science, though it can be considered so if people feel like it. If optimal battery charging is desired, then an optimal charging system will be needed to carry out that task, but such systems won't be cheap and won't necessarily be foolproof. It's hardly surprising therefore that motorhome converters choose to install charging systems that are relatively inexpensive and (given a modicum of care on the part of the leisure-vehicle owner) relatively foolproof. Auto-Trail began to fit Elecsol batteries as standard from 2008. When it comes to an optimal charging regimen, as far as I'm aware these batteries are basically no different from any common-or-garden lead-acid battery, or any AGM battery. The only difference in regimen (again, as far as I'm aware) comes when the battery is gel-type. If the battery is a gel one, then the optimal charging regimen for that battery would be inappropriate for non-gel batteries irrespective of whether the latter batteries are branded Elecsol, Platinum, Varta, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin9 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi Smiffy, I hope i can get 6 years out of my current leisure battery for the sum of £2 for the distilled water!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 The schaudt electroblock in my van charges at 14.2 volts and decreases as battery becomes charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smifee Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thanks for the info Brambles. I think I'll check the levels every 3 months instead of 6 now. I was doing a comparison between Elecsol & cheapie batteries. A mate fited the same system as I have to his van at about the same time. The Elecsols outlasted his batteries BUT only beause his van went up in flames a couple of months ago. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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