Electric step problems

[kevandali]

Hi Everyone, our electric step has started refusing to operate at all when using the switch and not connected to the mains hook up. It only ow works when plugged into mains and the switch on the control panel is in the engine battery position and not the leisure battery position. 

Previously, you just pressed the switch when on hook up or not, with the selection switch in the normal position (leisure battery position) and it worked fine.

Not actually sure where to start looking, any ideas out there?

The only thing I did notice, was the fact that occasionally when connected to the mains the meter for the leisure batteries shot straight over to show charged but when switched the the engine battery it seemed dead. Thing is, the engine starts fine and the battery does not struggle and on most occasions the meter reads charged. thanks for any help.

Kev

[kevandali]

There is a switch in the habitation area which selects either the leisure batteries or the engine battery, now realised that when I select the van battery there is no power to the habitation area, so the lights go out and the step won't work. Can anyone tell me if there is some sort of link between the switch and the habitation area that would cause the loss of power?

Will be hunting high and low until I will probably have to get it sorted by a qualified individual.

 

[Rayjsj]

Sounds to me that your leisure battery is kaput. When hooked up to the mains the charger/power supply will supply the 12v power needed to drive the step, think you might need a new leisure battery.

Easy to test though, disconnect the leads and check the voltage with a volt meter. Ray

 

 

Just Re-Read your post, and i'm confused. The Switch on your panel sets which battery is recieving charge from the MAINS charger, and is powering the habitation area. They should also be linked by relays to the vehicle alternator so that they recieve a charge when the engine is running (not just the ignition on !). The fact that your step DOES work at all, means that IT has no fault. I STILL think the fault lies with your leisure Battery. Have you checked all the relevent Fuses ?

[Clive]

You need to check the fuses to the leisure battery and step motor for corrosion, and any connectors and chassis connections as your description sounds like an bad connection somewhere.

C.

 

[kevandali]

Cheers Clive, will take a look.

Think the two leisure batteries are ok as they ran the lights and water pump recently for over 5 days when not hooked up, but when the switch on the panel was switched to main van battery, all the lights went out even though the van battery starts the engine fine, first time everytime.

 

[lizken]

Kev

The 12v system in the habitation area is isolated when the ignition is switched on, apparently for safety reasons. does the step retract when the engine is started?

 

[kevandali]

Attempting to sort the step out this week, the step retracts normally when the engine starts, recently had the lights sorted and the electrician found that the fuses that charged the leisure batteries needed replacing.(didn't have time to look at the step)

 Thing is, the step does not operate on 12v either with the selection switch in the leisure battery position or the starter battery position but will only operate on mains supply but only when the selection switch is in the starter battery position. If on mains and the battery is selected to the leisure batteries position, it does not work. (hope this makes sense?)

Not sure where to start but thought about this approach below?

• Check all fuses again
• Check the batteries (do I need to put a meter across the terminals? what sort of reading should I get?
• Open the step motor itself and check for any corrosion
• Clean and grease the step joints

If there is anything else I should/could try then please let me know, simple answer would be to take it somewhere but would cost a fortune just for someone to shake their head, tut a few times.

 

Thanks so much in advance if you can help me sort this problem out.

Kev

 

 

[Robinhood]

I suspect that your wiring diagram (which may help) is that contained in the following link:

 

http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/Swift_Motorhome_schematics_2006.pdf

 

I would also suggest it would be a good idea to phone, or drop an email to, Sargent, who have a good reputation for support, describing your symptoms. I would think they could have a good stab at probable causes.

 

If this does not solve your problem then please call our dedicated telephone support line on 01482 678981 or contact us by e-mail. We require details of the actual fault along with the caravan / motorhome serial number, and the product serial number / reference. Our support line is open 9:00am to 5:30pm Monday to Thursday and 9:00am to 12:30pm on Friday (closed for lunch 12:30 to 1:30).

 

email is support@sargentltd.co.uk

 

 

Edit:

 

To clarify the above, Sargent design and provide the wiring and components for Swift Group (and other manufacturers') conversions, and are happy to provide such support.

[Robinhood]

Further to the above - though I'd like to try and trace the circuits a bit more, referring to the diagram I would think the fuse situated at the bottom of the block above the item marked "remote control" (i.e. the first one in the feed from the vehicle battery to the right after the maxi fuse) looks a good suspect.

 

I'd have to work out if being on mains wouud provide power independent of this being blown, and I have to go out right now, but I'd sure try to find where it is, and check it.

 

 

[kevandali]

Thanks so much for the quick reply, one other quick question, where do I actually find the motorhome serial number, is it on the metal label in the foot well? and the product serial number would be found on the step motor? Thanks so much for your help

Kev

 

[Derek Uzzell]

kevandali - 2011-12-05 7:36 AMAttempting to sort the step out this week, the step retracts normally when the engine starts, recently had the lights sorted and the electrician found that the fuses that charged the leisure batteries needed replacing.(didn't have time to look at the step)

 Thing is, the step does not operate on 12v either with the selection switch in the leisure battery position or the starter battery position but will only operate on mains supply but only when the selection switch is in the starter battery position. If on mains and the battery is selected to the leisure batteries position, it does not work. (hope this makes sense?)

Not sure where to start but thought about this approach below?

• Check all fuses again
• Check the batteries (do I need to put a meter across the terminals? what sort of reading should I get?
• Open the step motor itself and check for any corrosion
• Clean and grease the step joints

If there is anything else I should/could try then please let me know, simple answer would be to take it somewhere but would cost a fortune just for someone to shake their head, tut a few times.

 

Thanks so much in advance if you can help me sort this problem out.

Kev

 

Logically, if your motorhome starts easily and all your habitation bit-and-pieces (lights, water-pump, etc.) work OK when you have the control-panel switch in the "Leisure" position, then both batteries should be all right.The step deploys and retracts, so there should be nothing intrinsically wrong with the step's motor and no particular need to lubricate any part of the step.As your step used to work OK and then suddenly began to behave in the manner you described in June (and it hasn't changed its ways since), then it's tempting to think that something minor but critical failed and a fuse would be the obvious suspect.The step only operates on 12V, but it's somehow obtaining that 12V power-feed round-the-houses when the motorhome is hooked-up to the mains and the Vehicle/Leisure control-panel switch is in the Vehicle position. I agree with Robinhood that a recheck of the fuses would be the sensible thing to do.(If you plan to ask Sargent for advice, then providing the Swift build-number may assist. Your Suntor will carry a longish VIN-number relating to its Fiat chassis and shown on its DVLA V5C registration document, plus a (presumably) shorter Swift build-number. It's quite likely that the Swift build-number will be on the foot-well metal label you mention. I think you'd find the Omnistep product/serial number on an external bar-coded adhesive label. However, I shouldn't worry about this as all Omnisteps are much the same in terms of how they work and their basic wiring. The trouble comes when (as in your case) the electrical system prior to the step-motor/switch/relay combination is complex.Clive's diagram and advice may help:http://www.motts.org/Omnistep.htm

[kevandali]

Thanks so much for all the help, everyone, so far, with the mains off, I have checked the voltage across the starter battery and the 2 leisure batteries and the engine battery is about 12.7 and the two leisure batteries are approx 12.55/12.65.

 

When the engine was started the starter battery went up to 14+ but the two leisure batteries didn't change.

 

When on mains with the engine off, the two leisure batteries both went up to 12.7/12.8

 

So, rightly or wrongly I am assuming the alternator is not charging the leisure batteries at the moment but on mains they are getting a trickle charge, all batteries seem ok.

 

I am now going to try and locate the fuse next to the maxi fuse that is first in line.

 

Cheers

Kev

 

[Robinhood]

If (and it's a big IF) the wiring diagram is correct, IMO, it can't be the maxifuse, as you are reporting that the alternator is upping the voltage on the vehicle battery, which would not happen if the maxifuse had blown (or the split-charge relay were not delivering power down that leg).

 

I think, following the diagram (not the easiest), that the onboard 12v supply would probably provide power to the step regardless of a number of blown fuses, particularly those in the block of three, but the internal workings of the distribution panel would be required to determine that.

 

With a bit more time, and the other symptoms you are now describing, I'm now favouring the fuse at the top of the block of three that I've described (i.e. that on the red/yellow wire), as this appears to protect both the step, and the split charger (alternator) negative connection to the leisure batteries, and if blown would presumably manifest itself as a problem in both.

 

I'm no expert, (though I've fixed a good few problems like this over the years) so I hope I'm not leading you astray, but if the diagram is the correct one, it looks a good bet.

[Keithl]

kevandali - 2011-12-05 7:36 AM

...recently had the lights sorted and the electrician found that the fuses that charged the leisure batteries needed replacing

 

Kev,

 

Why? Where the fuses blown, corroded or what?

 

I think that you may have more than one fault but all in the same location. This being the bank of 3 fuses mentioned previously.

The middle fuse (in the diagram) will control charging of your leisure battery and the bottom fuse is power for your step via the switch.

Could it be that the repair you mentioned has not worked or the auto electrician did not know what all the fuses did and so has not completed the repair?

 

I'm putting my money on the fault(s) lying with these fuses as you already know you have a problem with them.

 

Keith.

 

EDIT. I've just read the fuse names on the wiring diagram and the middle fuse is called "Leisure Battery" so will be the fuse protecting split charging to the Leisure battery.

The lower fuse is called "Vehicle Battery" and I believe this will protect items run off the Vehicle battery and will also protect charging of the Vehicle battery from the control panel. This will explain why the step works when Vehicle battery is selected as you are then trying to charge the Vehicle battery.

[kevandali]

I have managed to find the bank of 3 fuses and checked the colours of the wires to make sure they are the correct ones, all 3 fuses are ok :-(

I have since realised, and not sure if their is a link here? When the selector switch is in the leisure battery position on the control panel and the ammeter switch is pressed, the meter needle swings right over well into the green, when the selector switch is in the vehicle battery position and the ammeter is pressed, nothing happens and no lights work in this position.There are two split charge relays right next to the bank of 3 fuses but not sure how to test these in case they are a problem? Not sure of next step yet, will look at the drawing.

What else could I physically check while I have all various covers off?

 

[Keithl]

Do you have voltage at these 3 fuses?

 

1 should be permanent live and the other 2 only live with engine running as they are relay controlled.

[kevandali]

Sorry to be a pain, how would I check, remove the fuses and then use the metre on the slots that the fuses have been pulled from?

 

 

[Keithl]

That would work, or some fuses have small openings in the top to allow you to make a contact.

Failing that could you make up 2 short leads each with a male and female connector to extend the fuse out from the holder?

 

Edit. Make sure you get a good earth for the negative probe of the meter.

[kevandali]

Have checked the voltage of the 3 fuses, without the engine running the top two have no voltage and the bottom one has 12.7v

 

With the engine running the top one is 14+ volts, middle one 1.6v bottom one same as top. I have since discovered a relay that is behind the step switch but not sure how to test this yet, will have to give it a rest for a while, rain and snow flurries stopped play.

 

[Keithl]

kevandali - 2011-12-05 12:53 PM

 

With the engine running the... middle one 1.6v

 

Kev,

 

This is obviously why your Leisure battery is not charging from the engine. You need to trace this wire back towards the relays and possibly try swapping fridge and split charge relays to identify the fault. ie Swap Red/Yellow and Brown/Blue wires over.

 

As for step problem try checking for voltage at the Brown/Green wire at the switch. It should be permanent 12v.

 

Keith.

[Robinhood]

Agree with Keith, the 1.6V value appears to be in the L/Battery charge circuit.

 

If you switch the relays (and if they are easy to get at, I mean simply that, not re-wiring) and test the same points again, if the 1.6V and 14V values switch between top and middle, you have a faulty relay (and have identified why the leisure batteries aren't charging).

 

Are you testing the voltage on the input or output side of the fusebox? For the step problem, I'm still wary of the fuse(s) unless you've tested the output side of the box, or done a continuity test on them. (It's possible for them to look OK without actually being so!).

 

If you test at the step switch for a permanent 12V input (mains and engine off) as Keith suggests, a positive result (which would surprise me given the symptoms you report) would eliminate the fuses as a problem with the step.

 

Given that you CAN get the step to work when there is power via hook-up, I would place the relay at the step switch fairly low on the list of suspects.

 

Is it snowing on you in Cumbria or Notts? It has recently reached me in the forest :-S

[Keithl]

Just to add to RobinHoods comments, the step relay ONLY controls the step when you start the engine so unless it is failing to close it's normally closed (NC) contacts then it will not be at fault. Test for continuity across terminals 30 and 87a with the relay removed (use Ohms on your meter).

 

I'm still suspecting the wiring from the lower fuse to the step switch. I have another suggestion to check...

 

First measure the voltage at both sides of the fuse and then if the same, whilst you measure the voltage at the fuse get a helper to press the switch to extend the step and see what happens to the reading. It may help to isolate the problem.

 

Keith.

 

Edit. I still think the problem is with this fuse or fuseholder as the step switch receives power from the distribution panel when on EHU so cannot be completely disconnected.

[Robinhood]

Keithl - 2011-12-05 1:42 PM

 

Edit. I still think the problem is with this fuse or fuseholder as the step switch receives power from the distribution panel when on EHU so cannot be completely disconnected.

 

..unless it is something relatively complicated that's gone wrong, I violently agree.

 

Remember, there is no vehicle battery voltage shown at the control panel, and the electrics won't work from the vehicle battery switch position.

 

Either the fuse (or fusebox) is duff, or there is a break in circuit shortly after the fusebox. Hence the advice to test voltage at the output side of the box, and absolutely re-check all the fuses.

[Keithl]

Kev,

 

How many wires come out of the lower fuse?

Are there 2 Brown/Green wires as shown on the schematic or only one which splits later?

 

The answer to this may lead us to the break.

 

RH. Kev can only get the step to work on EHU when selecting Vehicle battery on the display and then the panel would be trying to charge the vehicle battery and hence supplying power back up the Brown/Green wire to the lower fuse and hence the step switch.

I hope that makes sesnse!

 

Keith.

[Robinhood]

I agree - apart from (I think wrongly) getting diverted onto the top fuse after being out, this is what I've thought all along.

 

(the potentially faulty split-charge relay was another diversion though :-S )

 

The problem is, that whilst it is a logical diagram, it isn't necessarily a physical one. Hence, the issue could be anywhere between the input to the fusebox, and the control panel (depending on where the connection to the step switch is taken off).

 

It appears to me that there is continuity from the panel to the step switch, but no continuity from the vehicle battery to the panel, and if that is true, then there isn't a lot to trace. (I think this is exactly what you are saying, and it still makes the fuse box, or the line from the fuse box to the junction point of the step feed, the key areas).

 

I would repeat my advice as above, double check the fuses, and/or measure the voltage at the output end of the fuse box. If all is well, then it looks like a wire break.