RONROSIEM Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 We have just bought a new van which comes with no spare wheel. ( Apparently this is the coming trend for cars as well as motorhomes). Has anyone experience of the foam type repair kits or indeed any other solution to this situation. Worryingly I note that Green Flag will not recover a vehicle without a spare. Any opinions gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hi Folks, I'll start the ball rolling with my views on emergency repair kits... 1. Is the supplied kit suitable for the pressures in your MH's tyres? A lot of these kits have a maximum pressure stated in the instructions. 2. Most breakdown companies WILL recover a vehicle that was supplied from new without a spare. They WILL NOT recover a vehicle where you have left the spare out to save weight or space. 3. These kits are only suitable for a puncture, if you encounter any damage other than a simple puncture, eg sidewall damage or run the tyre flat, then they will not work. And it will be 'S*ds law' that you will encounter a flat at the most inopportune moment when everywhere is shut! And now my personal opinion, I would not leave home without a fully serviceable spare for the reasons stated above. And finally, from comments made on this forum it seems that a lot of manufacturers are listening to customers and spare wheels are being fitted to a lot more new MH's than a couple of years ago! HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 You don't say what van it is, our 2011 Globecar PVC on Fiat was supplied with spare wheel, but an earlier PVC (2008?) of different make did not have spare, so it would appear to be down to convertor. Personaly I would get a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The relevant spare-wheel/tyre-related passage in Green Flag's rescue policy terms and conditions seems to be: "What is not covered: • labour charges at any garage to which the vehicle is taken. • the cost of any parts and/or materials used. • the cost of supplying a spare wheel and tyre if a serviceable one cannot be provided by you. • the cost of, if needed, a locksmith or a bodyglass or tyre specialist. • anything mentioned in the General Exclusions." As has already been said, the ability of 'Fix & Go'-type systems to allow a motorhome to continue being driven following tyre damage will depend on the extent of the damage and the capability of the repair kit. This MotorhomeFacts thread may be useful: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-102987-days0-orderasc-0.html I'm wary of the suggestion that "spare wheels are being fitted to a lot more new MH's than a couple of years ago". There's a real incentive for motorhome manufacturers not to provide a spare wheel as this policy offers a significant cost/weight saving and the space freed up beneath the vehicle permits greater flexibility as to where bulky items (eg. diesel-fuelled heaters, water tanks) can be positioned. It's also easy to see that, if a motorhome manufacturer does choose to exploit underfloor space originally designed to take a spare wheel, it may prove impractical to carry one subsequently. If a tyre (or wheel) is badly damaged, sourcing a replacement may be far from straightforward. A few weeks ago I was talking to the owner of a 2011 Chausson whose tyre had collected a sidewall puncture near the France/Spain border on his way to Portugal. The Fix&Go kit had permitted the vehicle to be driven (with the nail still in the tyre's sidewall) to a tyre outlet that fitted a temporary patch. Then the problems began, as the vehicle had Continental VancoCamper 'camping-car' tyres and none could be found. Eventually the motorhome was driven on to Portugal and back to the UK where it still proved to be impossible to find a matching VancoCamper tyre. A desparate call to Continental finally produced two tyres (within 48 hours), one to replace the damaged original and the other to fit the wheel-rim that the Chausson owner had purchased in the meantime. If I remember correctly, he was storing the spare wheel beneath the motorhome's bed as that was the only practicable place for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 My last 3 flat tyres were wrecked8-)..............I'd get a spare;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Whether you carry a spare wheel or not depends on how lucky you feel. If you are sure that any puncture you get will be a nice neat nail in the tread then it seems that one of these kits is all you need. It's my view that the van makers don't omit the spare wheel for the customers benefit, but purely to save themselves money ( and weight/space). I wouldn't go anywhere without a spare wheel personally, (and wouldn't buy a car or a van without one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Driving a Motorhome is the equivalent of driving a fully laden van, driving one for more than a few yards with a flat tyre is almost certainly going to damage a tyre beyond repair. I've not had it happen on a Motorhome but have had punchers twice on a caravan both times tire was completely destroyed, on one the rim as well. As Derek points out the difficulty of obtaining replacement tyres can be considerable, you may end up getting a standard van tyre fitted to get you home then having to buy the correct tyre as well. False economy to run without a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 We have a van supplied without a spare and like others I carry one in the garage. I find it disgraceful in these days of H&S that spares are omitted. Apart from being stranded, I wonder what happens on a Sunday evening and the breakdown bloke turns up, and cannot get a spare as all the places are shut. If you dont have recovery do they just leave your car at the side of the road? I was talking to a chap the other day and he has just bought some tractor units and even they were not supplied with spares, they were a few years ago. This comment is totally irrelevant to the discussion but... B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID PILCHER Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 RECENTLY HAD PUNCTURE ON CAR,UNDER WARRENTY,AA ATTENDED AND SAID IF PUNCTURE KIT HAD BEEN USED TYRE COULD HAVE FAILED BEFORE BEING REPLACED.AA TOOK MY WIFE ,AND WHEEL,TO TYRE COMPANY,NEW TYRE FITTED AND AA PUT WHEEL BACK ON CAR. COST WAS £220-00. AND JOB TOOK 2 1/2 HOURS IN TOTAL, MOTORHOME HAS SPARE, CAR DOES NOT. AA MAN NOT IN FAVOUR OF PUNCTURE KITS AND I PERSONALLY WOU;D NEVER USE ONE. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONROSIEM Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks for all replies. Having read them and the Motorhomefacts thread, and had some time to think about it I have decided to go for a spare. Local Ford Dealer has one in stock and I will just have to put up with the loss of space and payload by carrying it in the under (fixed) bed locker. (Wife is unhappy as she was hoping to use the space for shoes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Re the Ford dealer's spare. If this is a complete wheel and tyre, do check that the tyre is the correct type. It seems probable that it will be a "standard" Transit tyre whereas the tyres on your 'van are likely to be different (Camping type), to the standard "white van" tyre. If this is the case, I think I am right in saying the spare will not be suitable for use, as I believe it is the case that camping tyres should not be paired on an axle with non-camping tyres. You may be better off buying just the appropriate wheel from the Ford dealer, and then buying elsewhere a tyre to fully match those currently fitted to the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Because of the weight of a motorcaravan (750kg+ per wheel) it is virtually certain that in the event of a puncture on the move there will be sidewall damage ( its not always obvious) due to the tyre being pinched between rim and road. That being the case repair even temporary is not an option making a spare wheel and tyre essential. The gunge in the tyre option might be OK for a car but not on our heavier vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-10-13 7:37 PM Re the Ford dealer's spare. If this is a complete wheel and tyre, do check that the tyre is the correct type. It seems probable that it will be a "standard" Transit tyre whereas the tyres on your 'van are likely to be different (Camping type), to the standard "white van" tyre. If this is the case, I think I am right in saying the spare will not be suitable for use, as I believe it is the case that camping tyres should not be paired on an axle with non-camping tyres. You may be better off buying just the appropriate wheel from the Ford dealer, and then buying elsewhere a tyre to fully match those currently fitted to the vehicle. An earlier thread that may be useful http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19102&posts=24 I echo Brian's advice that, whatever the tyres fitted by Ford as original equipment to RON&ROSIEM's motorhome (it might be helpful to know the make and model), the tyre to be used on the spare-wheel should be an exact match. Although it was suggested in MMM October 2011, page 220 (presumably by Michelin) that mixing 'camping-car' and 'non-camping-car' tyres on a single axle "could be deemed illegal", there seems to be no indication in the regulations relating to the UK's MOT test (which, in my view, would be the arbiter for illegality) that this would be the case. Nevertheless, such a mixture of tyres would have the potential to complicate the selection of appropriate tyre pressures so would be best avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-10-15 7:13 AM Brian Kirby - 2011-10-13 7:37 PM Re the Ford dealer's spare. If this is a complete wheel and tyre, do check that the tyre is the correct type. It seems probable that it will be a "standard" Transit tyre whereas the tyres on your 'van are likely to be different (Camping type), to the standard "white van" tyre. If this is the case, I think I am right in saying the spare will not be suitable for use, as I believe it is the case that camping tyres should not be paired on an axle with non-camping tyres. You may be better off buying just the appropriate wheel from the Ford dealer, and then buying elsewhere a tyre to fully match those currently fitted to the vehicle. An earlier thread that may be useful http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19102&posts=24 I echo Brian's advice that, whatever the tyres fitted by Ford as original equipment to RON&ROSIEM's motorhome (it might be helpful to know the make and model), the tyre to be used on the spare-wheel should be an exact match. Although it was suggested in MMM October 2011, page 220 (presumably by Michelin) that mixing 'camping-car' and 'non-camping-car' tyres on a single axle "could be deemed illegal", there seems to be no indication in the regulations relating to the UK's MOT test (which, in my view, would be the arbiter for illegality) that this would be the case. Nevertheless, such a mixture of tyres would have the potential to complicate the selection of appropriate tyre pressures so would be best avoided. Just a thought Derek, but in the UK would it not be the "Construction & Use Regulations" that would be the legal arbiter, rather than the standards of the DoT MOT test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 whilst I wouldn't dream of using one of these kits on the vehicle tyres, I did use one to seal the leaks in the air suspension assisters on our van, and we have had three seasons of use from it, so don't throw the kit away. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Like the original poster we had no spare wheel on our transit based Chausson flash, This is cost cutting gone to far you just know that if and when you get a puncture the gunge will not work it will be raining and in the most perilous situation. So we went onto ebay got a wheel and tyre in surprisingly good condition 6mm of tread for £29.99 + £9.99 postage I am not particularly bothered about tyre matching as it is only for use as a temporary spare. I know some will think this is wrong but any spare in my opinion is better than none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Dr Dave - 2012-01-01 6:53 PM Like the original poster we had no spare wheel on our transit based Chausson flash, This is cost cutting gone to far you just know that if and when you get a puncture the gunge will not work it will be raining and in the most perilous situation. So we went onto ebay got a wheel and tyre in surprisingly good condition 6mm of tread for £29.99 + £9.99 postage I am not particularly bothered about tyre matching as it is only for use as a temporary spare. I know some will think this is wrong but any spare in my opinion is better than none. You are fortunate to have a Flash 04. When we were in France in late-2011 we looked at a Chausson Flash 10 as (on paper) this might have represented a potential replacement for our Hobby. However, just a cursory inspection within the vehicle revealed woefully limited storage capacity, and a quick glance underneath showed no spare wheel and no place to house one due to Chausson's rearwards positioning of the waste-water tank. Unlike the Flash 04, the 10 has no rear 'garage' that could contain a retro-fitted spare wheel, nor does it have a fixed bed beneath which a wheel might be housed. I mentioned the 10's inability to carry a spare wheel to the French saleslady and she immediately said "Yes, it's not possible", so it was evident that she was well aware of there being no spare-wheel and probably recognised this as being a negative selling point. As long as your e-bay-purchased wheel and tyre, if fitted to your Flash 04, would not cause the vehicle to fail our MOT test, I don't see why anyone should consider anything 'wrong' with using it in an emergency. The relevant MOT test stuff is on here: http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_410.htm I note that BGD suggested earlier that our Construction and Use Regulations should provide the basis for assessment of spare-wheel/tyre usage legality. There are two important UK legal statutes that will relate to tyres - The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 and the Motor Vehicle Tyres (Safety) Regulations 1994 - and the UK MOT test cherry-picks safety-related elements from those statutes. If it's intended that a spare-wheel/tyre retro-fitted to a motorhome be used other than in an emergency, then it would make good sense for that wheel/tyre combination to exactly match the vehicle's existing wheels/tyres. But if it's just for use in an emergency then, as long as the vehicle would not fail our MOT test if fitted with that wheel/tyre, I can't see why relatively minor differences (tyre make, tread pattern, tread depth, etc.) should be an issue legally or practically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Just a thought, but when you have new tyres fitted, why not save the best of the old tyres as a spare. If you have got tyre levers, a big hammer, and a bit of soap its not too difficult to change a tyre. If not at least you have one there for a mechanic to fit. Save you waiting for him to get one, and rip you off with the price. Maybe you could tie it under the van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Peter James - 2012-01-02 12:14 PM Just a thought, but when you have new tyres fitted, why not save the best of the old tyres as a spare. If you have got tyre levers, a big hammer, and a bit of soap its not too difficult to change a tyre. If not at least you have one there for a mechanic to fit. Save you waiting for him to get one, and rip you off with the price. Maybe you could tie it under the van? I have been doing just that for years and now I have enough tyres to build my own sea defence barrier! Have you have tried getting an old tyre off a rim lately? It is not as easy as you make out even in a garage let alone by the roadside - in the rain - at night - in a foreign land! But carrying a spare tyre if you have the space but no spare wheel is very sensible in my view! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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