Stargeezer Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Today I started up my Boxer based Stargazer after a couple of weeks, no ice as far as I know, but should have full antifreeze OK. Don’t park it up for long, we last used it on Dec 2nd (80 miles or so). I did start and run the van at tick-over for 5/10 minutes beforehand. Anyway, drove a couple of miles home, happened to look underneath and a huge pool of milky white fluid, probably/presumably oil (or something) with water, not just dripping, it was like when you take a drain plug out if that makes sense. It smells familiar, but could be anything. Looks like gloopy milk. So had to get the car, so drove it back another couple of miles, no warning lights came on, brakes and steering worked fine, I did feel the brake pedal was low but that might just have been me being paranoid. Looked underneath and it seemed to be coming (gushing) out the back of the engine (bay) not the front. Any ideas please? It’s a T reg, only done around 30K Miles Will obviously try it again tomorrow and understand it will not have fixed itself... I can't leave it where it is as I parked it at someone else's place while they were away (at their request) Pete/Stargeezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The only fluid I can think of which could look like milk is brake fluid mixed with water. 1st thing I would do is check your brake fluid level and what the comtents of the reservoir look like. Maybe the cap has been left off and rain water has run imto the reservoir and overflowed it. Whatever, I would not drive it again until you establish what is causing the discharge of fluid. Engine oil would be black and oily, coolant would not go milky and has a strong distinctive kind of unpleasant smell, Battery acid again would not be milky. Automatic gearbox oil....not sure if it mixes with water or not...I doubt it, but if water has entered an automatic gearbox hydraulics then the churning about could mix it into an emulsion and it would be gloopy. Same with standard gearbox oil. Engine oil again, comtaminated with water would create an emulsion which is leaking out. You would know if that was happening if you remove the oil filler cap on the cam cover and peer in. I go for brake fluid, or emulsion from the engine because water has got into the engine. So check if the coolant level has dropped. If coolant has mixed with the oil there are a few possiblities but most likely is a head gasket failure, or someone has left the oil filler cap off and rain water has managed to get in. Just my idle thoughts at this time of night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'd guess - based on the description of the size of the leak and where it appears to be coming from - that it's coolant-related. As Brambles says, check the power-steering, brake-fluid, engine oil and coolant levels, as one of them is bound to be low if fluid is literally "gushing" out. Hopefully the problem won't be too serious.; perhaps no more than a split coolant hose, with the milky colour due to coolant mixing with the usual oily muck that collects in an engine compartment. However, if oil and coolant are mixing due to, say, a head-gasket failure, this could result in the cooling system being over-pressurised and a hose splitting. (If you GOOGLE-search using "car milky leak" (omitting the quotes) as the search-term, you'll get quite a few 'hits'.) I echo Brambles's advice that you should not drive the motorhome (in fact, it would be best not to attempt to start it) until the cause of the problem has been identified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Do you have air conditioning? (That dries out the inside of the van and deposits the water underneath) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I am going to disagree with others here, if it is 'gushing' it would almost certainly be a diesel leak. Diesel leaking will mix with water and any oil that may be present on the engine, a lot of water around at the moment, and have a milky appearance. You should be able to smell it though, i would check the fuel bowl seal and get a torch, run the engine and have a good look at the rear to try and trace the leak. This type of leak is sometimes harder to spot than you think but if it is diesel important to sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Unlikely as it is, can we assume that you have ruled out a screen washer or a diesel fuel leak? Does it only leak when the engine is running or all the time or has the leak stopped? Checking all fluid levels with the engine cold - engine oil, gearbox oil, coolant, brakes, steering, washers should identify where the liquid has come from? Not sure how you check air-con refrigerant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Did you drive it back without even looking even under the bonnet or checking any of the levels ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Mmmmmm, a garage, are you not in any recovery club, it needs to go up on a ramp IMO rather than trying to guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 "should have full antifreeze" (?) It will be emulsified oil, the only place oil and water can mix like this is in the engine :-( Have a look at the engines dipstick and see if that's the same, also check that your warning lights illuminated when you first switch on the ignition. Lets hope you have a happy new year Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Pete, It definitely sounds like emulsified oil and if it isn't black then it can only be from one place, the gearbox. Brambles mentioned in his post that he didn't think it was automatic gearbox fluid but I can find no mention of whether you have an automatic so will assume you have a manual. If so I believe F**t's (and hence Peugeots) are well known for filling their manual gearboxes with water from a scuttle drain and so whilst stood yours has filled with water. You have now driven it and emulsified the mixture which has now started to overflow out of the breather as a white, milky gunge. My suggestion would be to locate the gearbox breather and see if this is the source of the leak and then, if so, to get the gearbox flushed and refilled with oil and sort out the scuttle drain/gearbox breather issue. HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks very much for all your help and suggestions. The van is a manual by the way. And over the last couple of weeks we did have some ridiculous rain and the van was parked out on the field... I started it and ran it for maybe 30 seconds or so to get it somewhere more sheltered (up by the house). I did start the engine today, no warning lights came on i.e. nothing to indicate the engine oil was low, the power steering works. I didn't want to risk driving it but the brakes feel OK. I might be being a bit "glass half full" but Keith's thoughts sound right to me. As my other half just reminded me last week the rain and wind were driving in sideways such that we had rain coming into the house, seemed to be getting in straight through the (plastic) cladding. Will look in that direction and... fingers crossed! Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Pete, puzzling? In your original comments you said "smells familiar" This should be your best clue. Take off the various filler caps, smell them & compare whiffs! Did it leak when you started it this morning? White & gloopy? sounds like the wrong place but .... not your waste water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Stargeezer - 2012-12-31 12:51 PM I did start the engine today, no warning lights came on i.e. nothing to indicate the engine oil was low, the power steering works. I didn't want to risk driving it but the brakes feel OK. Do you feel lucky - Or did you do the sensible things like visually checking under the bonnet and under the engine as well as checking all liquid levels before starting the engine? If you are very lucky - If there is no evidence of leaks, it is just possible that the oily puddle was somebody else's which you just happened to park over? Personally there is no way I would have started a very expensive engine without being 100% sure that all liquids were at least full and captive in their right places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hello Again, Just to clarify I did check the levels as I do understand that could be provide a clue, pulled out the dipstick and that was black as black could be. Where the van parked is a very very steep hill and if I stop at the gate the 'van sits at something like 45º, (can be a swine to get moving again if it's slippy) and although the coolant is full the light flashes on as I get in and out, so I know the light works and it's fine on the level. So with the bits I can see and the various warning lights looking OK, it leads me to lean towards the gearbox. The more I think about it the more I'm inclined (did you see what I did there?) to go with that scenario and I am the eternal optimist.... It's currently pouring with rain and the wind is howling here in lovely Leighton Buzzard. The 'van is parked on gravel so I'll have to wait 'til it calms down before I can get underneath and see what's what. Thanks again for all the feedback Pete Stargeezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'm sure there is well intentioned advice on here, but I cannot imagine for a minute the kind of amount of rain water gaining entry through the gearbox breather it's a very small hole with a "top hat" on the top, short of driving through a very deep flood above your wheel arches, the only way I would have thought this unlikely scenario could be confirmed is by draining the gearbox oil. Not sure what age your van is, but a couple of years ago I changed the G/box oil on my 2003 2.8 Jtd, a quite fiddly job as it can only be done by removing the breather and refilling with EXACTLY the amount and specific oil for the box, from memory I think it was 2.7 Litres, and not cheap either, there is NO level plug to tell you when there is sufficient in ( good design Fiat ) and I decanted it through a very small wine makers funnel and tubing into the breather hole, remembering of course to refit the breather plug afterwards. Plus you will need to remove the air cleaner box to gain access, held on by three 10mm nuts that are visible after removing the air filter, these are on a cotton real type of rubber mountings, two of mine sheared off, so maybe source a couple from Fiat before you start, and of course you'll need to remove any associated pipe work to it. I still say however all the conjecture under the sun is unlikely to get you on the right track, get it on ramp would still be my advice, but if it has come from the G/box breather then the evidence should be easy to spot by lifting the bonnet to see if there is any tell tell signs on the top of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-31 3:22 PM I'm sure there is well intentioned advice on here, but I cannot imagine for a minute the kind of amount of rain water gaining entry through the gearbox breather it's a very small hole with a "top hat" on the top, short of driving through a very deep flood above your wheel arches, the only way I would have thought this unlikely scenario could be confirmed is by draining the gearbox oil. Not sure what age your van is, but a couple of years ago I changed the G/box oil on my 2003 2.8 Jtd, a quite fiddly job as it can only be done by removing the breather and refilling with EXACTLY the amount and specific oil for the box, from memory I think it was 2.7 Litres, and not cheap either, there is NO level plug to tell you when there is sufficient in ( good design Fiat ) and I decanted it through a very small wine makers funnel and tubing into the breather hole, remembering of course to refit the breather plug afterwards. Plus you will need to remove the air cleaner box to gain access, held on by three 10mm nuts that are visible after removing the air filter, these are on a cotton real type of rubber mountings, two of mine sheared off, so maybe source a couple from Fiat before you start, and of course you'll need to remove any associated pipe work to it. I still say however all the conjecture under the sun is unlikely to get you on the right track, get it on ramp would still be my advice, but if it has come from the G/box breather then the evidence should be easy to spot by lifting the bonnet to see if there is any tell tell signs on the top of the box. I've done this job a couple of times from above, but now find it's easier to do it from underneath-- run the vehicle around for a bit to get the oil warmed up, then you can get underneath, take out the drain plug, and then when you know where it's located you can reach round from underneath and unscrew the sender switch from the top of the box whilst it is draining. Then wife/assistant feeds a length of thin tubing down, and you hand-guide it from below into the switch hole in the gearbox top. Then replace the drain plug and fill with 2.7 litres (don't worry if you heard 2.2 litres, still put 2.7 in, as that is what Fiat later advised after some early failures of the 5th gear cog which is external to the main box, and is lubricated by splash-over from the main box) of 75/80 gear oil via a little funnel attached to the top of tube. Hint - if you warm the gear oil before you try to add it (in airing cupboard overnight for example, or in a bowl of hot water for 5 minutes), it is MUCH less viscous, and thus runs down narrow pipe more quickly. When all oil is added, just scoot back under van and screw switch back in again. 10 minute job. Then wash hands, open wine and drink to congratulate yourself on saving 40 quids worth of garage labour charges, plus their loony mark-up on bog standard gear oil that you can buy at you local motor factors for 50% less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Stargeezer - 2012-12-31 1:59 PM Hello Again, Just to clarify I did check the levels as I do understand that could be provide a clue, pulled out the dipstick and that was black as black could be. Where the van parked is a very very steep hill and if I stop at the gate the 'van sits at something like 45º, (can be a swine to get moving again if it's slippy) and although the coolant is full the light flashes on as I get in and out, so I know the light works and it's fine on the level. So with the bits I can see and the various warning lights looking OK, it leads me to lean towards the gearbox. The more I think about it the more I'm inclined (did you see what I did there?) to go with that scenario and I am the eternal optimist.... It's currently pouring with rain and the wind is howling here in lovely Leighton Buzzard. The 'van is parked on gravel so I'll have to wait 'til it calms down before I can get underneath and see what's what. Thanks again for all the feedback Pete Stargeezer What I meant by checking the warning lights was with just the ignition on, they should all light up to show that they work ;-) Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Still say this is a diesel leak, nothing else will 'gush' and not effect the levels in any way. Start the engine and look, takes five minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-12-31 3:53 PM Still say this is a diesel leak, nothing else will 'gush' and not effect the levels in any way. Start the engine and look, takes five minutes. It's like a who dunnit, yes of course he should do that, but if it's diesel as far as I'm aware it will not mix with water,and certainly not be of a gloopy milk consistency, plus it will stink like hell, or has he left a carton of long life milk in the cab and the mice have been at it leaking through the cab floor, anything is possible trying to second guess the problem from a distance. I hope we get to hear,10 points to the closest guess. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Just been back to the van, double-double checked coolant, engine oil, power steering and brake fluids all good levels and no milky... ness in any of them. Still keep coming back to the gearbox. Can anyone point to a diagram of what's what on a 1.9 TD peugeot diesel engine as I don't recognise much about engine development since the 1000cc Mini or Cortina 1600. Like used to be so simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 May help you to get a workshop manual on the Peugeot 1.9 diesel engine, Halfords would have one even Charity shops are worth a scan, this may also be of help to you,?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_XUD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Pete, Have a read of this thread from 2009, it may help explain the problem.. Link. Edit, especially the note from 'Nobby' about the 1.9 engine and speedo drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-31 5:08 PM rupert123 - 2012-12-31 3:53 PM Still say this is a diesel leak, nothing else will 'gush' and not effect the levels in any way. Start the engine and look, takes five minutes. It's like a who dunnit, yes of course he should do that, but if it's diesel as far as I'm aware it will not mix with water,and certainly not be of a gloopy milk consistency, plus it will stink like hell, or has he left a carton of long life milk in the cab and the mice have been at it leaking through the cab floor, anything is possible trying to second guess the problem from a distance. I hope we get to hear,10 points to the closest guess. ;-) It does not totally mix but certainly if it leaks will run down back of the engine and when it mixes with water, which is bound to be present at the moment and any residual oil that is their it will assume a milky colour. As he has totaly ignored this suggestion anyway does not matter much but is the most likely explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 As Pete's motorhome has been standing in the rain for several weeks and (apparently) was on a steep incline when it was noticed that gloopy/milky stuff was gushing out from underneath, it has to be asked if anything is actually wrong. Rain-water can collect in large quantities under the bonnet and pour out when the vehicle 'stance' is changed. My Hobby, if parked leaning to the right, will hold rain-water in the plastic collector at the base of the windscreen. When the Hobby becomes level, water gushes out from the drain below the left-hand cab-door. As all visible fluid levels check out OK, no warning lights are lit and the vehicle's motor ran happily for 5-10 minutes, the gearbox theory has attractions, particularly as water ingress was known to afflict Ducatos (and, presumably, Boxers). However, this is a 1999 vehicle and, if rain-water could enter the gearbox in large quantities, I would have expected the present 'problem' to have shown up well before now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-12-31 3:53 PM Still say this is a diesel leak, nothing else will 'gush' and not effect the levels in any way. Start the engine and look, takes five minutes. If it was cold enough and old diesel (pre October) maybe waxed diesel would look milky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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