Stargeezer Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 I should have taken pictures (even vids) so y'all could see how much stuff is coming out... But for now, can I just thank you and I mean it, for your help and I will try and forget about it for an hour or two. if I can just get the fu**er home I can worry about it later Can you drive a boxer for 2 miles with no oil? HAPPY NEW YEAR & THANKS Pete (Stargeezer) a kind of play on words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 And my printer won't work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Stargeezer - 2012-12-31 9:43 PM ...if I can just get the fu**er home I can worry about it later Can you drive a boxer for 2 miles with no oil? If your motorhome was Ford, Mercedes, Iveco or VW based, I'm confident nobody would have proposed the 'gearbox full of water' theory. As you've checked all the visible fluid levels and confirmed that there's oil in the motor, it should be safe enough to start and run the motor. If you let the motor tick-over for a while and 'stuff' begins to gush out from underneath the motorhome again, I strongly suggest you don't drive the vehicle. If 'gushing' doesn't happen (and I don't thnk it will) and the geabox theory is correct, then either there is no fluid in the gearbox, or the gearbox has spat out a sufficiently large quantity of the oil/water mixture to lower the fluid level in the gearbox to a point where no more will emerge. Either way, unless you can drain what's in the gearbox, it won't be possible to know whether it's empty or has a water/oil emulsion in it. There may be a fuel leak (as rupert123 has suggested) but, unless you get your motorhome towed or recovered professionally, to get the vehicle home you'll have to run its motor and use its gearbox. If the motor starts, runs and sounds OK, and the gears engage OK and there are no horrible noises from the gearbox area, a careful 2 mile trip should be a reasonable risk to take, after which you can make a thorough inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I don't know what your milky gushings are but having seen a 1.9 boxer gearbox with water ingress I'dd be surprised if it was that on yours. On the one I saw water got into the gearbox through the gearchange shaft because the scuttle drain tube was not a good fit in the scuttle drain hole. The gearbox oil had been mashed up with the water and produced a thick, slightly pink emulsion with the consistency of thick yoghurt, firt symptomm was difficulty engaging fifth gear. If in doubt don't risk it, get it recovered to your home, you do have a recovery service don't you? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I would use your rescue service, They will also give you a better idea of whats wrong when they see the vehicle ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Been back to the van again today. Just managed to fit underneath. The only indication was a little bit of gunge on (what I assume is) where the gearbox drain plug is located. The only thing dripping was a little bit coming from the scuttle drain and it as running down from there. That's a lot of pipework just to end up dripping water over the engine/gearbox/clutch or whatever is down there, deserves a design award. Again all the fluids I can see are fine, it simply must be the gearbox. Is it conceivable that the scuttle drain got blocked with leaves and general debris, to be quite honest I had no idea it was there, then with all the rain it filled up and driving it finally shook the muck through and the water then poured over everything. Had to move it a few feet (literally) and she started up perfectly and everything was exactly as it should be. However in doing so I could see there was oil shining on the gravel but the white liquid had all gone, leaving a white almost vaseline like residue. Wouldn't you expect gearbox oil in a van (with 30,000+ miles on the clock) to be at least a bit dirty? Thanks again for all your input pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Pete, I checked the oil level in my car gearbox the other month after 90,000, I was surprised it looked like new. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 RECOVERY... I have been checking my documents and yes I have breakdown cover that includes recovery if it can't be fixed right away, but my concern is... To all intents and purposes there's nothing wrong with the vehicle. When the RAC man turns up, all the right lights come on as they should and all the bad ones stay off, it will start and appear to drive OK. Has anyone had to ask for a seemingly OK vehicle to be "recovered"? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I think you basically have your answer. Water is heavier than oil, so if it has entered the gearbox, which is far from unknown, it will have sunk to the bottom, displacing the lighter oil. I have not seen a gear oil/water emulsion, so have no idea what its appearance might be, but as you drove your van and report this milky gunge flowing from it, if that is due to water, I can imagine it might well fit that description. Once on the ground, that oil and water will separate again, allowing the water to drain/evaporate away, leaving some of the oil behind. This is serious! In effect, you may by now have a gearbox more or less full of water, instead of oil! Whatever you do, don't drive it any more - unless you can be absolutely certain there is no water in the box! Don't even run the engine with the box in neutral, as the first motion shaft (or whatever equivalent that box has) will be spinning on water lubricated bearings! If you can't check what is in the box, phone your usual service garage first thing tomorrow, explain what you think has happened, and get them to either send a mech to you to check, or arrange to get the van transported (i.e. on a low loader, without the engine being run at all to load it) to them for examination. If the gearbox is full of water, you risk wrecking it if you do otherwise. Don't delay, it will corrode internally if there is water present. Sorry to be melodramatic, but gearboxes are expensive items to replace. If the result is there is no water in the box, and all is OK, it will have been a relatively costly and annoying false alarm, but if there is water in there in quantity, which seems horribly likely from your description, and you leave it, or run the engine or drive the van, it will be liable to turn out to be very expensive indeed. Even if the box turns out to have been undamaged by what has happened to date, it may need to be stripped to investigate whether damage has resulted. In the meantime, let's just hope it is a false alarm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thanks Brian, despite the doom and gloom of your message, it does seem the most likely scenario and, as you say if it all turns out to be a... waste of time in the long run it's the sensible thing to do. And to be honest I should be pleased it's not head gasket or worse! I keep coming back to the fact that all the other fluid levels are as they should be. Do you think an RAC man would be able/prepared to undo the drain plug and see what comes out. I'll give him a bowl. Indeed if it wasn't the first day back at work tomorrow I could do it myself. Maybe he could tell what the oil is/was by the smell. Thanks again for your time pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 If you can get to the gearbox drain plug under the van, undo it as much as possible, but not take it right out and see what drips out, oil or water. Brian B. I see you have thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 That sounds like a plan. Thanks. Just thought that won't work if it's raining as the stupid scuttle drain(pipe) drops water over that plug - assuming it's what and where I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Is there a photo/diagram/cartoon of the 1.9 Td engine that will show me (for sure) where the gearbox oil drain plug is. I reckon it's the thing at the bottom of the "engine" that's furthest to the right (offside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 It`s probably better if a garage looks at it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Of course you are right. It's just that after 3 years unemployed (working now, on about a third of my last wage) all the savings have gone and it has been a real balancing act between the car and the Stargazer, tax, MOT and insurance to keep them going. Sadly "my" garage is a money making machine. My two brilliant mates/mechanics... Mark (a drummer) is now a lecturer on bodywork and car related stuff and Mikey (a percussionist) moved to Sweden with his (Swedish) wife. DOH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Pete, The best pic I can find of drain plugs (note there are 2) is halfway down this page... Link. And then more info on re-filling here... Link. HTH, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The link you've quoted relates to Peugeot J5 vehicles (which ceased production in 1994), whereas Pete's Stargazer is T-reg (1999) vintage. I'm not sure if the gearbox fitted to Pete's motorhome is the same as that fitted to a J5. The J5 gearbox (as you say) apparently had two drain-plugs, one to drain the main 'void' of the gearbox (where the gear trains are) and the other to drain the part of the box containing the final-drive components. If Pete's gearbox has 2 drain-plugs, and there's water in it, then opening the plug on the main part of the gearbox would be the best choice, as that's where most of the oil should be. This link suggests that identifying the drain-plug's location may be tricky http://www.justanswer.com/peugeot/5htcl-gear-box-a-drain-plug-assume-diff-housing-hole.html while this link suggests otherwise http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=137119 If undoing the drain-plug is just to try to check whether there's water in the gearbox, then (if there's two plugs) undoing either should probably do. As the vehicle's motor has been run, that should have mixed any water with the gearbox oil and, if a reasonable quantity of oil is drained out, it SHOULD be apparent if the oil is contaminated. Pete's motorhome is only 'hypothetically' broken down. The general view is (quite rightly) that it would be unwise to drive the vehicle the two miles needed to get it home without first checking the state of the gearbox oil. But there's no doubt that the motorhome could be driven in its present state. I've no idea how the RAC would react to a request for assistance regarding a vehicle that can be driven, has nothing obviously wrong with it, but the owner fears to drive it in case damage to its gearbox might occur. I think I'd contact the RAC, tell them that I'd noticed 'gloopy milky' fluid gushing out from beneath the vehicle from the gearbox area and leave it at that. Remote diagnosis is fine, as is DIY inspection, but, if the gearbox is full of contaminated oil, that problem will need to be addressed and I can't see Pete doing that himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Dave Newell - 2013-01-01 9:27 AM I don't know what your milky gushings are....... D.Do you mind Dave...............this is a family forum. Oooooh matron. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Once again thanks for your time and suggestions. I did want to say you are right to consider me a little rubbish when it comes to motors. However in the olden days I would have a go (and often/always succeed) at fixing anything on a car. My old Mini used to blow head gaskets so often I sprayed the inside of the (white) bonnet orange so I could line it up easily. I've still got a bottle of Hypoid 90 (is that right?) in the garage. Probably 30 years old... But modern engines... what is going on? And diesels... there are so many bits, pipes, sensors with wires and goodness knows what going on.... I haven't got clue what half the bits are! Under the bonnet of my Mondeo TD (old Ghia X) is just unreal!! I changed a (dipped beam) bulb yesterday and the screws had a slot/allen key//torx head - well weird! And we had parts shops, where they knew what you wanted and would often give you advice on the best way to do the job. Now you have just Halfords... So while you're right to imply I'm useless I wasn't "back in the day". When you bought a car, you bought a Haines manual, read them for entertainment, found out what was what (and kept them). Austin A40 anyone? I truly believe, these days, manufacturers design vehicles that can't be worked on by their owners. I remember being shocked when Audi came up with a car (A2?) that you could open the bonnet. And my mechanic mate Mark did a job on a motor for me and pointed out that it required a socket (was it 18mm?) that you don't get in a standard (punter) socket set. Sooo, I would like to think I could drain and refill a gearbox, but you're probably right to say I wouldn't... I really do appreciate your interest, time and suggestions. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 You're not on your own, nowadays you need a computer to see where the oil goes (lol) They've replaced common sense motors with technology, the more the technology the more they breakdown, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have an elderly (F reg) Autosleeper Rapport based on the Renault Trafic. I love the description "bomb proof engine". My Dad, 92 this year, bought it, only to discover he could no longer handle a van with no power steering. Tried to sell it when I had a job, but no takers, thought it was worth a few quid. Now I have been quoted £700, which I don't have, just to get it through the MOT. It was that fun, little van and it got me, the other half and the dogs hooked. If anyone is interested, it all works (or did), clanky but lots of fun and, most importantly, Autosleeper. To be honest I would prefer to run that rather than the Stargazer... old but fun! A bit like me! Still have to sort out the Stargazer, but work, earning money, needs my attention right now. Why are motors so complicated? And televisions... and computers ... and... I think I might be going off on one! pete (Stargeezer) farley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Stargeezer - 2013-01-02 11:01 PM I have an elderly (F reg) Autosleeper Rapport based on the Renault Trafic. I love the description "bomb proof engine". My Dad, 92 this year, bought it, only to discover he could no longer handle a van with no power steering. Tried to sell it when I had a job, but no takers, thought it was worth a few quid. Now I have been quoted £700, which I don't have, just to get it through the MOT. It was that fun, little van and it got me, the other half and the dogs hooked. If anyone is interested, it all works (or did), clanky but lots of fun and, most importantly, Autosleeper. To be honest I would prefer to run that rather than the Stargazer... old but fun! A bit like me! Still have to sort out the Stargazer, but work, earning money, needs my attention right now. Why are motors so complicated? And televisions... and computers ... and... I think I might be going off on one! pete (Stargeezer) farley Hi Pete, It sounds like your camper arrived at the wrong time *-)...................not your fault ;-)...............but let it go on ebay................wrong time to sell :-| ..............Its just part of the journey we all do by camper or grind :D Just read your post script Geezer and you have a camper 8-)....................so please ignore my twoddle :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Stargeezer - 2013-01-02 9:14 PM ...I remember being shocked when Audi came up with a car (A2?) that you could open the bonnet... I think you meant to write "...you could NOT open the bonnet..." The Audi A2 has a hatch below the bonnet's front edge through which oil and windscreen-washer fluid can be checked/replenished. For an A2 owner this is normally adequate for between-services maintenance. Although motoring magazines sometimes claimed that the A2's bonnet could not be opened, this is not true. Although an A2's bonnet cannot be hinged up in the time-honoured manner, the lightweight bonnet is easy enough to detach and remove when full access to the engine-compartment is required. The idea that DIY maintenance/repair of products was universal "back in the day" is, to a large extent, a fallacy. While vehicles up to, say 1980, were usually relatively straightforward to carry out basic work on, few owners of early vehicles would contemplate, say, dismantling a gearbox anymore then than they would now. How many people today are able to repair their own TVs, radios or washing machines? How many could do this 50 years ago? I can't say I hanker for the Good Old Days of vehicle mechanical simplicity, as I vividly remember what such vehicles were like to drive compared to modern stuff. That I don't understand what things do under my vehicles' bonnets doesn't much concern me, anymore than it concerns me that I don't understand what's in the iMac computer I'm currently sitting in front of, or how I might repair its wireless mouse, or how my BT router functions, or how (in detail) the internet works. I'm not going to DIY repair my wrist-watch if it breaks (though I might change its battery), and I'm not going to DIY repair my Transit's ABS braking system if that should fail (though I would carry out some basic checks). If things are complex (and certain things - like computers - need to be complex), as long as they work, I'm resigned to be in ignorance of how they do it and prepared to accept that, if they stop doing it, I won't be able to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Paul- - 2013-01-02 10:11 PM You're not on your own, nowadays you need a computer to see where the oil goes (lol) They've replaced common sense motors with technology, the more the technology the more they breakdown, Sorry to disagree but this is total fallacy! Modern motors are far more reliable and economc to run than the tubs of rust we used to run. The difference is that when a modern motor does break down it can't be fixed with a bit of chewing gum and a pair of your girlfriends tights anymore. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hi Dave. Happy New Year. Out of interest, would you risk driving this van two miles to a garage, with what sounds like a lot of water in the gearbox? You know a lot more about gearboxes than I do. It just sounds like instant destruction to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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