Stargeezer Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 All I was trying to say (In a late in the day sort of way) was I haven't always been this helpless as a mechanic. I also think to a certain extent that many things are no longer repairable. I have TV engineer friend and although we were able to get a T conn board and fix my telly, he's got loads of broken sets in his place, once he tells them what it will cost to repair he reckons most people just buy a new one. And if you can get parts you just replace them, can't repair. Mind you when you realise there's a wire up the side and another along the top (or bottom) to control each individual dot on the screen, no wonder the processors doing all that don't last long. It was when people who fixed your car changed from being mechanics to "fitters" that things started going downhill. And decimalisation and the EEC. litres... you can't get spare bulbs for your christmas tree lights in Woolworths anymore... Finally are there any other theories on my oily outpourings, is the water getting in the top of the gearbox really a contender? I fear that a garage would laugh at me though it does seem to be case. pete D'stargeezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Apparently this is a 1998 Peugeot Boxer 1.9 Gearbox. Drain and Level plugs arrowed. Knew i`d seen one somewhere. http://www.ourwanderer.org/peug8.htm#gear box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If it looked like milk, maybe it was milk. Mixed with a little oil comtamination being washed off the gearbox and is nothing to worry about. Did someone throw a carton of milk at your windscreen as a prank?. I really begin to fail to see how you could have had emulsion pouring out of the gearbox without leaving some evidence around the vent on top. Remove the drain plug and take a look, surely cannot be too hard. Take a peek in the rocker cover via the oil filler and check it has not got any emulsion there. If brake levels are all Ok etc, then surely one option has to be it was indeed contamination in the heater scuttle box. Have you managed to asscociate the familiar smell with anything specific or indeed possible yet? The vaseline like lumps -- congealed milk or yoghurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The following is from an earlier string. The subject was 5th gear failure on the older type Fiat gearboxes, but I thought the comment regarding water in the boxes relevant. We have had a LOT of rain, over a LONG period so, even a small amount leaking in, over a prolonged wet period, would amount to quite a lot of water accumulating in the box. The description of it flowing out suggests to me that the effect was to substantially over-fill the box, with the surplus escaping via the vent (I believe designed to prevent over-filling). The description of what flowed out, and the reference below to mayonnaise, sound 'orribly similar. The problem, as I see it, is that just like a French dressing, once the gears are static and have stopped beating the liquids together, the oil and water will simply separate out, leaving the oil floating on top, and the water at the bottom. That suggests to me that the gears and bearings on the lower gearbox shaft are probably now sitting in water, and not in oil. peter - 2008-09-30 11:51 PM Had a word with my contact the gearbox builder and he was well aware of this problem as it is very common. He tells me that some of the blame for this is due to water entering the gearbox through the gearchange mechanism and is caused by the fact that water can run off the windscreen scuttle and washes over the gearbox. He advised me to make up a cover for the entry point for the gearchange and check the gearbox oil as it can be turned to Mayonaise due to water ingress. Not the ideal lubricant for the gearbox. He also advised me to fill the box with the same oil as is used in the engine, as anything of a higher viscosity is too thick. He said a D.I.Y job is feasible for a fairly competent amateur mechanic and should cost around £350. He will only work on complete boxes off the vehicle and this would involve complete stripdown. He does not work on complete vehicles, Probably doesn't want to go diving under them, (and I don't blame him when he can work at a bench in the warm). For your information the name of the company is: The Gearbox Centre which is in Northampton Tel:- 01604 755 230 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Oh that's brilliant. So kind!! Thank you. Even I should be able to do that. Do you think the extra inch or two I get by putting it up on my levelling would mess up the amount of fluid going in? I must say all you chaps have been very good, I do appreciate all your help. My next, no doubt stupid, question is how do I stop it happening again? pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 I wish... but it smells of oil and has an oily feel between the fingers. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Stargeezer - 2013-01-03 7:50 PM Oh that's brilliant. So kind!! Thank you. Even I should be able to do that. Do you think the extra inch or two I get by putting it up on my levelling would mess up the amount of fluid going in? I must say all you chaps have been very good, I do appreciate all your help. My next, no doubt stupid, question is how do I stop it happening again? pete Hi Pete, First of all have a look at what come out of the gearbox and take it from there. Go to the link i put in my post then go to the home page and have a good look round. The guy has done a few " Home Made Fixes " and a couple cover Water Ingress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 So from what Brian has posted, and your comments feels like oil means it probably is a mayonaise of oil in the box. I would be inclined, if it is, to drain and use a cheap engine oil to flush through the box a couple of times. Give the box just a short run on low power to cycle the oil around and drain and repeat until it comes out clean. Then refill with the proper oil. The best way is to drain all oil and refill with correct amount by volume, but if your older model has a level plug then you can use this whilst vehicle is level....unfortunately instructions are often fill to something like 10mm below plug level and is a pain to use a bit of bent wire in the hole to check but feasible crawling undermeath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 ...not had a double post for while ----- deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Some very useful info on the site you linked Wooie. Excellent. See thelevel is same as plug so life is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Once more, thanks to all of you. It is a bit tight to get under the van. I thought I was OK slim, but obviously not. Last time... I had the torch in my hand but couldn't get it in so I shine it where I wanted. I have double jointed thumbs but my elbows are "old school". But the Stargeezer will go for it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I note that, on the website Wooie provided a link to, water entering the gearbox via the rain-water drain pipes is mentioned and includes the following advice regarding oil contamination "A sure sign it has been contaminated, the oil has a milky appearance." Apparently the gearbox drain/filler/level plugs have a 7mm-square female 'indent', so an appropriate tool would be needed to remove/replace them,. See: http://www.ourwanderer.org/photogal/1tturbopipe12.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Seen it thanks, I intend to go for it tomorrow. The van is on a "farm" the owner has a bunch of machines... tractor, digger etc which he fiddles with, so I'm reasonably confident he'll have a drainplug tool. Might even have one myself at the back of my garage/junk-dumping area. But now I have another thought... What the f*** is the point of having a scuttle? If there wasn't a grille to let water in there in the first place, it wouldn't need to be drained (onto the top of the gearbox). Surely they could get rid of the water more easily than all that nonsense. Is it that a normal Boxer wouldn't have an extra four foot of "windscreen" above the windscreen to send water over the screen and a great big flat roof sending even more in that direction!! Fingers crossed for tomorrow y'all!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Dave Newell - 2013-01-03 4:01 PM Paul- - 2013-01-02 10:11 PM You're not on your own, nowadays you need a computer to see where the oil goes (lol) They've replaced common sense motors with technology, the more the technology the more they breakdown, Sorry to disagree but this is total fallacy! Modern motors are far more reliable and economc to run than the tubs of rust we used to run. The difference is that when a modern motor does break down it can't be fixed with a bit of chewing gum and a pair of your girlfriends tights anymore. D. I'm not too sure, once upon a time a you just changed a clutch, now its a sorry sir your clutch has gone we will also your have to change the DMF in tolden days it was plugs points & condenser, now its I think there's a problem with the engine management system....think! well we'll know better after we stick it on the diagnostic machine & change a few sensors....it could be the air mas meter or the mass flow sensor, we can't tell until we change them. We found the problem sir it was a split in the vacuum hose but has we had to fit the other parts before we could find the problem.... total bill £700 8-) Another example is the EGR valve, this costs the customer a dam site more in problems than the fuel it saves :'( When talking economics, running cost still play a major part, and today running cost are much more than chewing gum & tights. The only time we had limp mode was after 10 pints :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Not sure where you've got the idea that an EGR-valve will save fuel, as its likely effect is exactly the opposite. Neither EGR-valves nor DMFs are 'new' technology but, if you want blacksmith-style vehicle engineering, you'll need to go back to the type of motorhome covered in Martin Watts's "Classic Motorhoming" MMM columns. I well recall driving 1960s lorries/cars (and 1950s motorbikes). They were hard work, low performance, and uneconomical. Admittedly one could DIY much of the maintenance work, but there a lot of maintenance work that needed to be performed on a regular basis that's no longer required on a modern vehicle. I'm not sure if you've ever said what motorhome you own but, if it's a 'classic' and you are an enthusiastic grease-gunner, then I wish you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Derek Uzzell - 2013-01-05 10:16 AM Not sure where you've got the idea that an EGR-valve will save fuel, as its likely effect is exactly the opposite. Neither EGR-valves nor DMFs are 'new' technology but, if you want blacksmith-style vehicle engineering, you'll need to go back to the type of motorhome covered in Martin Watts's "Classic Motorhoming" MMM columns. I well recall driving 1960s lorries/cars (and 1950s motorbikes). They were hard work, low performance, and uneconomical. Admittedly one could DIY much of the maintenance work, but there a lot of maintenance work that needed to be performed on a regular basis that's no longer required on a modern vehicle. I'm not sure if you've ever said what motorhome you own but, if it's a 'classic' and you are an enthusiastic grease-gunner, then I wish you well. I wasn't referring to motorhomes just motors in general, I believe we reached the stage in the late 90s to the early 2000 where technology and common-sense worked hand in hand. Todays motors seem to have gone over the top, for example a front end bump, today the cost of a replacement lamp assy would cost more than than a total repair of an average vehicle from early 2000. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Bad News!! There;s a hole and a crack that runs around the curve on the side of the g/box! The hole looks like a countersink shape so I guess it must have come from the inside out!! We'll see. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 So sorry to hear this bad news. I'm sure it was the last thing any of us would have guessed at. Could you possibly post a photo of the damage so someone may be able to identify the cause? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Just this second downloaded them, most are rubbish as there was no clear view, but there's one that shows the white inside too. I will try to attach it. Just spotted max file size 100K - photo was probably way too big I'll do a PM pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Pete, Unfortunately I'm no expert on Peugeot gearboxes but it was in the hope someone who had more knowledge of them could help explain what had happened. If you want me to try and post your photo then I will. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Pete emailed me the photo to post for you all to see. If I'm viewing it correctly what we have is the driveshaft coming out to the bottom left of the photo and the diff casing is the damaged part to the right. My initial guess would be that either one of the diff bolts has come loose or some foreign body has got around the side of the diff in the casing and broken it from the inside. Unfortunately only a full strip down will reveal the true story. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Is the diff within the gear box on one of these or does it have it's own little house with it's own oil? Will try to get more photos as I'm going back to the van in half an hour pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Yes the diff is an integral part of the gearbox and shares the same oil. It would probably only require a fairly small amount of water in the oil to be emulsified to cause a lot of white 'goo'. Whether the water caused the failure can only be determined by stripping the gearbox. If you look at the photo on page 2 showing the drain plug location this view is from above on the right hand side. The crack is directly above the drain plug. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hi Pete, that`s terrible news, just had a look on Ebay and they are not as expensive as i thought. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313&_nkw=peugeot+boxer+1.9+gearbox&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargeezer Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 That's it - however there seems to be an awful lot more room in that picture than there is under my van!! pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.