SOG toilet systems, any good?

[kelly58]

snowie - 2013-04-07 5:59 PM

kelly58 - 2013-04-07 3:52 PMOur new Auto-Trail appears to have a SOG system built into the Thetford Toilet when you press the flush button an extractor fan cuts in and draws the air from the toilet through a filter system and after a short while the fan stops  , but if the fan is not required when you flush there is a touch screen button next to the flush button to stop the fan running.

Hi Kelvyn;and do you use it as a SOG? or do you use a chemical of some sort and simply use it as a holding tank venting device?alan b

We have only had a wekend away to date just to test all the systems were working ok , and until I read all the bumph you get with a new motorhome I came across the details of the Thetford system to his credit I remember the hand over guy mention something regarding the new Thetford toilet vent / filter system  , but as you know there is a lot to take in on the handover.

[lennyhb]

starvin marvin - 2013-04-07 5:

 

Its odd you should say this, because on my most recent trips abroad I've noticed less and less m?h's with SOGS fitted and these include the usuals, Cloggies, Froggies, Swedes, Germans etc. The reason we avoid parking next to a van thats got one fitted.....which thinking about, could that be the reason, yourself has one??

 

Just an illusion, a lot of vans now have the Thetford version which vents through the floor, SOG now do a roof vent often used when the loo is on the door/awning side.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We have never either bought expensive fluids, or loo paper for that matter, my tactic is to empty on a daily or at most a two daily basis, also for that reason I can't see the point in a sog system, and keep your stink to yourselves with the exception of the emptying point, and keep your cash in your pocket. ;-)

 

If you are a bit sensitive to your own aroma when you open the blade, a dash of something like "comfort" does the job, rather than embalming fluid most idiots ( sorry people) use..

[Derek Uzzell]

lennyhb - 2013-04-07 7:29 PM

 

starvin marvin - 2013-04-07 5:

 

Its odd you should say this, because on my most recent trips abroad I've noticed less and less m?h's with SOGS fitted and these include the usuals, Cloggies, Froggies, Swedes, Germans etc. The reason we avoid parking next to a van thats got one fitted.....which thinking about, could that be the reason, yourself has one??

 

Just an illusion, a lot of vans now have the Thetford version which vents through the floor, SOG now do a roof vent often used when the loo is on the door/awning side.

 

I was once told that the automatic triggering inherent in the SOG system is heavily protected by patents.

 

Thetford introduced a cassette ventilation-fan as an option on the C-250 model of toilet, but (as kelly58 indicates) the Thetford system functions differently to a 'genuine' SOG . A SOG automatically draws air from the toilet-bowl when the 'vane' at the base of the bowl is opened and continues to draw air until the vane is closed. The Thetford system requires user intervention.

 

There is a wide variety of SOG kits

 

http://www.campervanstuff.com/shop_stuff/index.php?pageNum_rsPrd=0&totalRows_rsPrd=14&mod=manufacturer&id_man=61

 

A version that exhausts above the roof has been available for many years, designed primarily for ventilating fixed toilet tanks. A more recent product is the SOG II, where ventilation can be through-floor and remote from the cassette locker.

 

With the Thetford C-250/C-260 pretty much the norm for new motorhomes, and a strong likelihood that (except for 'budget' motorhome models perhaps) the toilet's specification will include the Thetford ventilator, it's probable that this will seriously reduce future sales of SOG kits.

[Derek Uzzell]

1footinthegrave - 2013-04-07 10:25 PM

 

...I can't see the point in a sog system...

 

Lets ignore the claimed benefits of not needing to use toilet chemicals with a SOG system and explore how the system functions.

 

When the 'vane' at the base of the toilet-bowl is opened the SOG ventilator-fan begins to run, drawing air into the cassette and exhausting it outside the motorhome. So, if you are urinating, any smell that might emerge from the cassette through the open vane and enter the motorhome's bathroom does not. During defecation the same process takes place (ie. no smell enters the motorhome from the cassette), but the SOG fan-unit is also now drawing air into the cassette from immediately below the defecator's bum. This air is rarely fragrant!!

 

I've never felt any incentive to use special toilet-paper in my motorhome's cassette toilet and I'm not squeamish about the smell of human waste at a toilet emptying point. However, I'd rather not leave the bathroom in my motorhome stinking after I've used it, and I'd rather not feel a need to don a gas-mask before entering the bathroom after my wife has used it (and I'm certain she feels the same vice versa).

 

I can understand you quibbling about the cost of retro-fitting a SOG system, but not that you "can't see the point" of such a system. The point should be clothes-peg-on-the-nose obvious I would have thought.

[Tin Man]

My van has a really good 'stink extractor'. It is a skylight opening window in the loo.

 

No problems, no expensive SOG, no expensive special toilet paper and none of the blue toilet chemicals, just Aldi Bio.

[sshortcircuit]

Tin Man - 2013-04-08 9:04 AM

 

My van has a really good 'stink extractor'. It is a skylight opening window in the loo.

 

No problems, no expensive SOG, no expensive special toilet paper and none of the blue toilet chemicals, just Aldi Bio.

 

Will that be cheaper to fit than a SOG?

[BGD]

SOG update:

 

 

Went ahead and bought a SOG system for our Thetford C200 toilet whilst up in France ( 'cos they are lot cheaper up there than here); got back home to Costa Blanca region of Spain a couple of days ago, and have just fitted it to our motorhome this morning.

 

 

 

 

 

Comments:

 

Technical difficulty of fitting? Maybe 7 out of 10. Any competent DIY'er should be able to fit the thing in about a couple of hours.

But it does involve drilling through your toilet cassette door, sawing off part of the existing toilet slice mechanism, drilling through your toilet sidewall, and some 12 volt wring connections.

So I'd suggest you read all instructions slowly. Twice. Then once again. And then measure twice, so you only have to cut once!

If not a competent DIY'er, you'd probably be better to pay your local motorhome centre to do it.

(My thanks again to Derek Uzzell for his kindly emailing me some additional fitting instructions from a motorhome magazine article).

 

So, does it actually work?

Well, it seems................YES INDEEDEE!!

We do a lot of wildcamping, and nights on Aires rather than "proper" campsites with all services, so our cassette might go four of 5 days without emptying. And we tend to tour in warm/hot weather areas of Europe.

Also, we gave up using the Thetford chemicals completely some years ago now, in favour of any cheapo Adli or Lidl non-bio washing liquid and their cheapo toilet paper too...which seems just as good (or bad, depending on your point of view).

 

 

 

 

The fan action of the SOG seems very effective in continually sucking air down through the toilet bowl, through the cassette and thus out via the charcoal filter in the Cassette compartment door, whenever the toilet slice is opened.

 

So far, I'm very happy indeed with my SOG.

 

 

[Brambles]

"We do a lot of wildcamping, and nights on Aires rather than "proper" campsites with all services, so our cassette might go four of 5 days without emptying. And we tend to tour in warm/hot weather areas of Europe. "

 

Strikes me 5 days leaving a sog sytem is not going to work an dyou wil end up adding Aldi bio detergent or whatever it is you were using. I was always under impression sog systems had to be emptied every day. It will be interesting to read your views on how it works after you have actually used it in practice BGD.

[Tracker]

Brambles - 2013-05-07 5:54 PM

I was always under impression sog systems had to be emptied every day. It will be interesting to read your views on how it works after you have actually used it in practice BGD.

 

That's what a guy we met who had a SOG told me - empty it every day for 'best' results!

 

What a faff!

 

If you are going to empty it every day chances are you don't need a SOG system at all as the cassette will usually be OK overnight without any additives - after which it begins to make it's presence felt - as anyone else who has forgotten to add chemical after emptying will surely testify too!

 

Even with a strong dose of chemicals five days is pushing it a bit especially in warm weather?

[BGD]

Brambles - 2013-05-07 6:54 PM

 

"We do a lot of wildcamping, and nights on Aires rather than "proper" campsites with all services, so our cassette might go four of 5 days without emptying. And we tend to tour in warm/hot weather areas of Europe. "

 

Strikes me 5 days leaving a sog sytem is not going to work an dyou wil end up adding Aldi bio detergent or whatever it is you were using. I was always under impression sog systems had to be emptied every day. It will be interesting to read your views on how it works after you have actually used it in practice BGD.

 

 

 

Interesting - the SOG user "operating and Maintenance Instruction" leaflet that comes with the kit specifically emphasises, in writing, that once fitted, the cassette does NOT have to be emptied every day, but shouldn't go beyond perhaps 5 days.

 

I'll report back after our next 4 week tour up to/around the north coast of Spain which we embark on in a couple of weeks time.........

 

[Brambles]

BGD,

Interesting. Maybe shows those who say it has to be emptied every day have not read the manual. Hard to see right enough how natural biological break down can occur in 24 hours so await the results in anticipation. Seems some say they work and some do not. I am in the camp they do not work as the smell from some vans is horrendous but I also accept it is possible if it utilised correctly then maybe they are odourless along with an active carbon filter.

I shall arrange through my spanish contacts for a blockage in your house WC waste pipe so you have no altrernative but to test for the remaining of this week.

[lennyhb]

Sog's are great if maintained and the carbon filter changed regularly, Jon next time you come across an horrendous smell from one I suggest you advise the owner to change the filter. (lol)

 

Never found 4 days to be a problem, if empting is available I will empty daily two reasons, it's saves my back lugging a full heavy container, and if we are moving on I won't know when I may be able to empty again.

[Guest JudgeMental]

every 2 -3 days with us.....But if on a site empty it most days.

[crinklystarfish]

We've found that by far the best solution is to use the thing only when there's no viable alternative. We sometimes go for weeks without having to empty it!

 

Whatever chemical / bio / ventilation system is used, you are still carting round a bucket full of poo and wee.

[Guest JudgeMental]

crinklystarfish - 2013-05-08 10:34 AM

 

We've found that by far the best solution is to use the thing only when there's no viable alternative. We sometimes go for weeks without having to empty it!

 

Whatever chemical / bio / ventilation system is used, you are still carting round a bucket full of poo and wee.

 

using a squidgy bottle full of water to spray flush instead of toilet flush helps..as does peeing out the window,.......Not for you Mel as its very unladylike! *-)

[BGD]

crinklystarfish - 2013-05-08 11:34 AM

 

We've found that by far the best solution is to use the thing only when there's no viable alternative. We sometimes go for weeks without having to empty it!

 

Whatever chemical / bio / ventilation system is used, you are still carting round a bucket full of poo and wee.

 

 

 

 

 

Well of course you are, but so what?

 

Surely that's exactly the point of having a toilet cassette with enough capacity to last a week or isn't it? So that you can carry around that poo and wee until/unless you want/are able to empty it.

 

It isn't toxic chemical or nuclear waste. It's just some natural poo/wee in a sealed container, designed specifically for the purpose of storing it.

 

[crinklystarfish]

Hi Bruce, I think you must have misunderstood.

 

It's a bucket, full of poo and wee.

 

Hope that clears up the gravity of the situation.

[Derek Uzzell]

I'm a mite surprised there continues to be argument about the SOG system.

 

It's operation was described in some detail here:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/sog-units/28411/#M326540

 

and more graphically in my 8 April 2013 8:35 AM posting on Page 3 of this thread.

 

If a cassette ventilattion system (SOG or otherwise) is fitted, there's no requirement to empty the toilet cassette more regularly than if no ventilation system were fitted. Why should there be? However, as no (expensive) toilet-chemicals (Yes, I know there are cheapo alternatives...) will have been added to the cassette, there will be no incentive not to empty regularly. Like lennyhb, I empty my cassette daily if this is practicable for the same reasons he gives.

 

In our case, going 48 hours without emptying the toilet cassette would be risky. We don't use campsite toilets or showers and, because there are no additives in the cassette to discourage me from emptying it, I'm lavish with water usage for flushing and cleaning (water provided from motorhome's main tank). I've no idea what other people do, but we shower each morning and I then dry out the shower compartment pretty thoroughly, with that water being emptied into the adjacent toilet. So, although 48 hours from an empty cassette to a full one may not sound long, there are reasons for this short duration.

 

Brambles is rightly sceptical that a SOG system will cause toilet waste to magically decompose in 24 hours - it won't and it can't. But, even if you use chemicals, if solid waste entered the cassette in the morning and the cassette were emptied at midday, the waste would not have decomposed. Not sure it matters really, unless one has coprophobia.

 

The external filter fitted to SOG systems is small and not cheap:

 

http://www.outdoorbits.com/sog-replacement-carbon-filter-p-27.html

 

As I've said in the past, even with a new filter I can smell toilety odours if I put my nose close to the outlet of my motorhome's SOG system when the ventilation-fan is running. The filter's effectiveness will reduce the more often the toilet is used and, if the system has been poorly installed, there's a strong possibility the filter will become contaminated. If that happens, then it should be expected that the smell fron the SOG outlet will be very unpleasant.

[Brambles]

I am going to introduce another problem here not so far mentioned and probably is not applicable to most. I have a teenage son, so what you will say, but he must have an &r$e the size of a medieval cannon and his ability to produce the most largest and toughest logs is unbelievable. Thetford blue is no match for these, nor is green. I have found Camping Gaz blu a little effective at breaking down the contents of the loo, but cheap leisure products blue marketed often under dealer's own names on their shelves is remarkably good at decomposing the contents to the point I can actually pour the contents out. Any other method so far results in frustrating rinsing and violent shaking of the cassete to break down the contents. Our toilet at home often gets blocked, it is all my son's fault, but he carries his ability to have such devastating affects on such things with pride.

 

Would SOG work for me..I think not.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Yes ......point him in the direction of the nearest bush, and get him to take a tablet as it don't sound healthy....do you seriously clear/ clean up after him *-)

 

There is a web site called " rate my pooh" sounds like he would love it...incidentally have never seen it but my daughter told me her mates used to look at when in school, (girls convent) .

[BGD]

But surely, the very point of a SOG system is NOT that toilety smell is somehow magically removed.

 

There is no system, no chemical, no colour or type of liquid additive that is ever going to stop a cassette containing poo and wee from smelling of, well, poo and wee if you open the lid of it.

 

It is simply that the Sog system extractor fan sucks fresh air into the cassette from the inside of the motrhome via the pan, and the toilety smell of poo and wee in the cassette is simply sucked outwards to external atmosphere whenever the toilet slice is opened; thus doesn't waft upwards from the pan into the motorhome bathroom.

 

 

I care not whether, and at what rate the poo in the cassette might (or might not) be getting broken down by bacterial action.

 

I also care not whether, for the few seconds that the fan operates each time I open the pan slice, a toilety smell could be noticed by someone who chose to at that moment put their nose close to the SOG vent point on the external door of the cassette cupboard.

 

All I care about, frankly, is that we don't get the pooey smell inside the van, regardless of whether the cassette is emptied every day or once every 4 or 5 days; that we don't need to buy, use or carry any bottles "smell masking" liquids any longer, and that the cassette is no more or less easy to empty than it was before.

A couple of seconds of "swishing" of the contents at the emptying station before removing the end cap and pouring away has always managed to ensure a complete empty.

 

This SOG system seems to provide all of those advantages for us.

 

 

I'm not recommending it or forcing it upon anyone else; simply relating our own experience.

Others can choose to agree with, follow, or disagree with and not follow a similar course of action.

 

 

[Brambles]

"do you seriously clear/ clean up after him "

 

Yes, of course I do, I even wipe his bum for him!!

[sshortcircuit]

Bruce, I agree with everything you say however you must remember there are those with phenomenal abilities to sense that your SOG is in use from 100m and find that the odours are overwhelming. :-D :-D

 

Life is too short, ooops, must dash.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brambles - 2013-05-09 11:12 AM

 

"do you seriously clear/ clean up after him "

 

Yes, of course I do, I even wipe his bum for him!!

 

Perhaps then you can take a picture of said idiot clutching his log like a prize salmon....I'm sure he would be an overnight sensation on rate my pooh...Oh! put him on a diet