Electric Blown-air Heating

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Would I be right in thinking that my 2008 Cheyenne's heating should run off electric as well as gas? 

Just returned from a week's break where the gas ran out on the last night, brrr, and I couldn't get any heating on EHU alone. But reading the manufacturer's blurb it sounds as though it should work on electric alone. Boiler is fine on gas, when we have some, fan's working and our additional electric water tank works fine. 

Any advice/info welcomed

[Guest JudgeMental]

Hate truma controls they are rubbish, but if it has a 230v option..on the likle control wheel, it will have a pic of a flame for gas, and a likle zig zag line for 230V. No zig zag 230v pic = no 230v option

 

if you have both gas and 230v. you can choose either or both

 

 

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Yes that's exactly what I have but the electric option isn't working, so I presume there's a fault. With no knowledge of things electric, I don't want to fiddle too much but, I'm wondering whether there are some logical, simple steps to follow in order to, maybe, trace where the fault lies?

[Robinhood]

It would be useful to know which bit(s) of Truma kit your particular 'van has fitted (as there were several different options).

 

If you have a 'combi' set-up, then Eddie's post is broadly correct, but from your description, I suspect you may have a convector space heater, and a separate Ultrastore boiler for water.

 

If this is the case, then the Autotrail brochures indicate that the convector heater should also be fitted with the Ultraheat (electric) option. This will most likely have an entirely separate control panel to that for gas (gas controls will be built into the convector heater), and this could be mounted virtually anywhere in the 'van. It will consist of a thermostat with 1 to 9 settings, and a four-position switch allowing for "off", 500W, 1000W and 2000W settings. The electric heating functions are all controlled from this panel (though the blown-air control on the heater is still used).

 

The electric option will be switched via a fused spur, and the switch may, again, be located anywhere in the 'van (and is quite often not in immediate sight).

 

So, if you have a convector heater, you need to search for both the panel, and the switched fused spur (and ensure it is on).

 

(BTW, if you do have electric via an Ultraheat installation, it may be used in conjunction with gas to provide more output, or to reduce heating-up times).

 

The electric control panel looks like:

 

[arjxh56]

I have truma blown air heating in my van and it has both gas and electric options..

On EHU it has so little power that it struggles on full whack (number 5) to maintain anything more than 14 degrees. (The water heating appears just as good on EHU as Gas? )

On gas it can get so hot that the piping that carries the heat around the van smells like its on fire and it kicks out a lot of heat very quickly getting the van up to temp. Its great!

 

Not sure if yours is the same but on EHU the fan is blowing very slowly and only has one speed, its so slow you can hardly feel it blowing.

 

My other gripe is that the settings 1-5 are not great.. You have no idea what that equates to in temp terms. And of course its different on gas/elec or combined!

I would much prefer a temp setting like my old van.. I used to set the room temperature and the heating would kick in and out to maintain within a degree or two of that. I wonder if this is something i can install?

 

If you figure out how to get the heating to work adequately on EHU i would be very interested.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

It's a Truma Combi with 900w and 1800w electric plus the option of running the two together (gas and electric). 

[Keithl]

John,

 

Have you found the 'hidden' isolation switch for the mains to your heater?

 

Our's is right at the back of the wardrobe above the heater but could be anywhere near. Try following the mains wiring from the back of heater and see which way it goes.

 

Keith.

 

PS Or RTFM for it's location :D

[Robinhood]

WhiteCheyenneMan - 2013-04-09 5:04 PM

 

It's a Truma Combi with 900w and 1800w electric plus the option of running the two together (gas and electric). 

 

.....then I am confused by your reference to an additional electric water tank, as the Combi should provide for water heating. :-S

 

If, indeed, the Combi is doing the water heating, and on electric, then I can see no simple reason why the space heating shouldn't work, since AFAIK both use the same heating elements. Is this the case?

 

Whilst the heating output on electric is significantly less than on gas (particularly for a Combi6), it is easily discernible (and it appears your fan is working). Indeed, once warmed up I find I don't need gas use in my 'van to maintain a good temperature, even in the coldest of weather.

 

In order to use electric heating, the control panel setting remains exactly as it does when using gas (i.e., for space heating one of the bottom two settings - the flame without the 60degree water setting will be most efficient), the power selection switch should be moved to one of the upper (electric only) settings, the higher being the most efficient.

 

 

[bolero boy]

On our Truma Combi 4E, as well as the 2 rotary controls for energy source and water/space heating, there are also 2 push switches which are the 'master switches' for 'water heating' and 'space heating'. These light up orange when on. We also have a 3rd master switch for 'charger' but thats another story.

I am guessing that the heat will run off gas without the master switch ON (tho I've not tried it). For the water to heat via EHU then the water master switch must be on.

If we are on EHU one of the 1st jobs is to press all 3 master switches ready for water and/or space heating.

[tonyishuk]

Our Truma Combi requires resetting if anything untoward happens when the unit is running.

 

If the gas runs out,or there is a voltage cutout 12 or 240 V, the Truma switches off.

 

To reset it, we turn the gas/electric control to zero, temp down to one, then chose which gas or electric, or both we require for heating.

 

Sometimes the fan runs on when the Truma is switched off to cool the heater unit after use. The unit will not switch on during the cool down period.

 

Any of the above happens once in a blue moon, and once understanding its operation is not a problem.

 

Finally the electric heating on full power is not that useful to heat the m/home, but if it gets very cold or frosty, I leave it on at temp setting one, is enough to stop frosty pipes and maintains a temp of about 3 or 4 degrees.

 

The combi, always starts in slow fan mode when heating and the speed of the fan gets faster as the temperature of the heater gets hotter. On gas heating, the fan starts up fast, but will fall back to a slower speed as the unit sorts itself out.

 

The setting on the thermostat (1 to 5) is guesswork and changes from M/home to m/home. Once you have run it a few times, the settings become second nature and the maintenance of temperature is quite good. Some m/homes seem to have the sensor in places where there is no air flow, hence rather bad temperature control.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

[Dave Newell]

you have a Combi then the electric heating

bolero boy - 2013-04-09 6:17 PM

 

On our Truma Combi 4E, as well as the 2 rotary controls for energy source and water/space heating, there are also 2 push switches which are the 'master switches' for 'water heating' and 'space heating'. These light up orange when on. We also have a 3rd master switch for 'charger' but thats another story.

I am guessing that the heat will run off gas without the master switch ON (tho I've not tried it). For the water to heat via EHU then the water master switch must be on.

If we are on EHU one of the 1st jobs is to press all 3 master switches ready for water and/or space heating.

 

Sorry to contradict you but if you do have a Combi then the water and space heating is done by the same heating element, ergo you can not possibly have two separate switches for space and water heating if you do have a Combi heater.

 

To the OP, I suspect that if your heater does have electric heating then it is simply that it is only relatively low powered compared to running on gas.

 

You could of course resort to the age old British last resort and read the manual. That sohuod at least tell you if your heating system does have electricity as a power source option.

 

 

[bolero boy]

Dave, the switches are not part of the Truma control set, they are separate and adjacent to the Sargent PSU.

See this pdf http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/EC450%20System%20Instructions%20Issue%202.pdf

There are also 3 mini breakers to support the heating/water heating so one of these may be tripped.

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

I shouldn't have mentioned the extra electric water boiler as it has caused confusion, sorry! The van came with an additional water tank with an electric heater. It was fitted by the dealer as a sales demo vehicle. So for this post it's just a Truma Combi with the options of gas or electric, or combined. The electric fails to heat water, or blown air, but the fan still operates. Looks like I will have to burrow under the bed tomorrow to look for an isolating/master switch!

[Robinhood]

bolero boy - 2013-04-09 8:05 PM

 

Dave, the switches are not part of the Truma control set, they are separate and adjacent to the Sargent PSU.

See this pdf http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/EC450%20System%20Instructions%20Issue%202.pdf

There are also 3 mini breakers to support the heating/water heating so one of these may be tripped.

 

......nonetheless, Dave will be correct in the case of the Combi.

 

The Sargent kit is interchangeable for various uses, and can be used when the equipment consists of a separate (convector-type) heater, combined with a free-standing boiler, or alternatively for a single Combi unit.

 

There are two separate 230v wiring diagrams for 2010 vehicles, such as yours, and only one switch is shown for the Combi (with separate switching only in the case of two separate units).

 

http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/Motorhome%202010%20schematic%201-1.pdf

 

Hence, I suspect that only one of the switches (and likewise one of the MCBs) has any effect on the working of your Combi. (I can't see Swift going to the extent of parallel wiring, making either of them function). My guess, from the diagram, would be that the "space heating" circuit is the one in use for the Combi, but given my experience of Swift wiring, it could be anything. ;-)

 

 

 

 

[Robinhood]

WhiteCheyenneMan - 2013-04-09 8:07 PM

 

I shouldn't have mentioned the extra electric water boiler as it has caused confusion, sorry! The van came with an additional water tank with an electric heater. It was fitted by the dealer as a sales demo vehicle. So for this post it's just a Truma Combi with the options of gas or electric, or combined. The electric fails to heat water, or blown air, but the fan still operates. Looks like I will have to burrow under the bed tomorrow to look for an isolating/master switch!

 

...in that case, my bet will be on the isolating switch (as I highlighted, but under the wrong circumstances, in my initial post), or possibly a fuse, if indeed it is a fused spur as implied, and not an MCB. ;-)

[Keithl]

Sorry John but I didn't realise when I posted earlier that some Cheyenne's had Combi's. I've just looked up a 2008 technical brochure and see that 660, 740S and 840 models had a Combi while all others had separate Truma space and water heaters.

 

As you now say that your Combi does not heat water either on 230v only then I suspect you have to find an isolating switch hidden somewhere nearby, as I said earlier try following the wires or read the manual.

 

Keith.

[Robinhood]

Keithl - 2013-04-09 8:24 PM

 

Sorry John but I didn't realise when I posted earlier that some Cheyenne's had Combi's. I've just looked up a 2008 technical brochure and see that 660, 740S and 840 models had a Combi while all others had separate Truma space and water heaters.

 

As you now say that your Combi does not heat water either on 230v only then I suspect you have to find an isolating switch hidden somewhere nearby, as I said earlier try following the wires or read the manual.

 

Keith.

 

.....the manual I've browsed mentions an isolating switch for the Combi as well as the convector heater, but is silent on where it is located. ;-)

[Cliffy]

We have an Autotrail Tracker which has th dial shown previously with 500, 1000 and 2000watt setting, our isolation switch iscin the wardrobe along with the water heater switch. We have just found out last week that the fan on the Truma heater is only any good if ran on the lowest setting any faster and it seems to stop heating the van otherwise all works ok. I think finding the hidden switch is the answer as already said by previous posters.

 

[Rayjsj]

arjxh56 - 2013-04-09 4:47 PM

 

I have truma blown air heating in my van and it has both gas and electric options..

On EHU it has so little power that it struggles on full whack (number 5) to maintain anything more than 14 degrees. (The water heating appears just as good on EHU as Gas? )

On gas it can get so hot that the piping that carries the heat around the van smells like its on fire and it kicks out a lot of heat very quickly getting the van up to temp. Its great!

 

Not sure if yours is the same but on EHU the fan is blowing very slowly and only has one speed, its so slow you can hardly feel it blowing.

 

My other gripe is that the settings 1-5 are not great.. You have no idea what that equates to in temp terms. And of course its different on gas/elec or combined!

I would much prefer a temp setting like my old van.. I used to set the room temperature and the heating would kick in and out to maintain within a degree or two of that. I wonder if this is something i can install?

 

If you figure out how to get the heating to work adequately on EHU i would be very interested.

 

Good Luck.

 

 

I have a 2012 Autotrail Savannah, this has a Truma Combi 4 (kw) and has an Electric only option, like you I dislike the 'Round standard Truma controls' for the Combi, I would much prefer a 'Set it and leave it' type of control, AND they do make one, it's called the : CP 25 UK but evidently you need the PCB on the boiler itself to be (don't know which one,there are 2 ?) at level 13 or 13A, for the 'new' control panel to work.

And i have yet to find out how much the new control would cost ? perhaps others know the answer ? Regards Ray

 

Our 'Combi failure' ,last year on a very cold October night, not long after picking up the van, turned out to be a Blown fuse on the 'power board' of the Combi boiler, the only reason I can think that might have caused it, is the Site EHU tripping off a couple of times, i now carry a couple of spare fuses.

I have now had more problems with the 6 months of ownership with a Truma Combi, than i had in 3 years with our Eberspacher. WHY are they so 'universally' fitted ?

[ips]

You could of course resort to the age old British last resort and read the manual.

 

 

:-D

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Thank you guys, all sorted ;-)

The isolating switch was off, following work on the Habitation Aircon before Christmas. Isolation switches for both the boiler and the aircon have been positioned out of sight at the opposite end of the bed from the boiler. I've never had to touch them before, but have a vague recollection of the dealer mentioning them when we bought the vehicle two years ago!

Once again the Forum experts triumph!