Our visit to Brownhills

[Poppy]

Couple of week ends ago.Went to look at the baby A class rapido.It seemed to offer the same much liked layout of our Hobby but with a much better bed and slightly better lounge.It was advertized by Rapido as a double floor.Was chatting away with another couple when the man glanced underneath and said Well the waste tank is outside!Thought NO but on checking with the salesman (who had to look himself) it turns out this was the truth.Seems that the van was not very well winterized at all and that for a van advertized as over 60.000.Anyway, after a small domestic we decided van not for us.Bed beautiful, overcab bed beautiful but we didn't want it, it added to the weight and left very little storage in the cab.Width!!! Too much for us really and the big fixed mirrors which you can't pull in made it all much worse.Off to look at a Laika soon to see if this is our ideal van!

[sshortcircuit]

My Kontiki is winterised and the waste tank is not enclosed. I would assume it would be expected if freezing was possible you would empty.

 

Edit Waste water is also not under pressure

[Poppy]

Yes and we could have had it winterized and if that had been the only problem would have done so.The thing is though, that Rapido advertized and made much of the double floor and insulation, but not in this particular van it seems.The devil is in the detail.The other point is that the salesman was unaware as well.A lot of salesmen know very little about the products they are selling and it really is buyer beware.And I am used to the horse world so should really realize that.The only way you know if a horse for sale has 4 legs is to go round and count them!!!!

[Guest Peter James]

Poppy - 2013-04-19 9:02 AM

 

A lot of salesmen know very little about the products they are selling

 

This is true. But at least Brownhills leave you alone to walk round at your leisure. Have a nice meal there, walk around as long as you like. Nobody bothers you.

[Guest Peter James]

sshortcircuit - 2013-04-19 8:09 AM

 

My Kontiki is winterised and the waste tank is not enclosed. I would assume it would be expected if freezing was possible you would empty.

 

Edit Waste water is also not under pressure

All the waste tanks I have seen have been external. Some 'winterised' have heaters.

None of the tanks are under pressure as far as I know - except gas which doesn't freeze at our temperatures

[Wooie]

Peter James - 2013-04-19 9:33 AM

 

Poppy - 2013-04-19 9:02 AM

 

A lot of salesmen know very little about the products they are selling

 

This is true. But at least Brownhills leave you alone to walk round at your leisure. Have a nice meal there, walk around as long as you like. Nobody bothers you.

 

 

The ones that really annoy me are the ones that start making their way over to you before you`ve

even got out of your vehicle.

[Poppy]

Peter James - 2013-04-19 9:33 AM

 

Poppy - 2013-04-19 9:02 AM

 

A lot of salesmen know very little about the products they are selling

 

This is true. But at least Brownhills leave you alone to walk round at your leisure. Have a nice meal there, walk around as long as you like. Nobody bothers you.

That is also true.

[Guest JudgeMental]

If you want a beautifully finished fully winterised double floor camper have a look at these...my favourite coachbuilt. They do A class as well......

 

http://www.euramobil.de/modelle_terrestra_teilintegriert.html?L=1

[Poppy]

JudgeMental - 2013-04-19 10:17 AM

 

If you want a beautifully finished fully winterised double floor camper have a look at these...my favourite coachbuilt. They do A class as well......

 

http://www.euramobil.de/modelle_terrestra_teilintegriert.html?L=1

Saw the Frankias as well.Big heavy vans with big price tags but absolutely superb.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Poppy - 2013-04-19 11:55 AM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-04-19 10:17 AM

 

If you want a beautifully finished fully winterised double floor camper have a look at these...my favourite coachbuilt. They do A class as well......

 

http://www.euramobil.de/modelle_terrestra_teilintegriert.html?L=1

Saw the Frankias as well.Big heavy vans with big price tags but absolutely superb.

 

you can get 3 models of terrestra at 3500kg but if your considering an A class surely you are looking beyond 3500kg anyway?

 

the only near practical A class at 3500kg has to be a hymer exsis-i ( new lightweight models)

[peterjl]

Hi

 

Why would you want the waste tank in the double floor?

 

We have taken various m/homes to the alps in jan/ feb and experienced temps down to -20C.

 

The trick with the waste is to leave tap open to drain into a bucket (that usually freezes and is emptied as a big ice cube). Also e had a Hobby for a while that had a heater in the waste tank and that also works.

 

I usually try and park so the sun is on the side of the waste emptying point so any ice defrosts during the day.

 

It's more important to have your fresh water inboard

 

 

Peter

[Brian Kirby]

Suggest you look at Hymer Exsis-i models. Heated double floor contains both fresh and waste water, AlKo chassis, and for £500 you can omit the drop down double bed in favour of cupboards all around the cab. Probably similar price to the Rapido, depending on model chosen. Usefully cheaper if prepared to import a LHD van.

[Mel B]

O/T - Eddie if you're still in the market for a single bed layout have a shuftie at the New Burstner T640 coachbuilt, only 2.10m wide and a massive opening tailgate so you can easily get your electric bikes in there. Not sure what the price would be in LHD form from your favourite foreign dealer but here with a few extras it is selling at £45k and has a massive 775kg payload! 8-)

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2013-04-19 6:23 PM

 

Suggest you look at Hymer Exsis-i models. Heated double floor contains both fresh and waste water, AlKo chassis, and for £500 you can omit the drop down double bed in favour of cupboards all around the cab. Probably similar price to the Rapido, depending on model chosen. Usefully cheaper if prepared to import a LHD van.

 

The Exsis does not have a double floor as such, it has a lowered area below the floor where the tanks are fitted which is insulated and heated.

 

Our van has an external waste tank but it is in an insulated enclosure and heated by the blow air system.

 

How Swift can call there vans winterised when the waste is underslung with an electric heater in it, totally useless unless you are on a hook up.

[Brian Kirby]

You are of course correct Lenny, and my shorthand was maybe a bit misleading.

 

However, the gist of the installation is that the two tanks (fresh, and waste, water) are installed into purpose designed "sinks" in the GRP underfloor, that in turn slot between the rails of the AlKo chassis. Those sinks are insulated and heated, and the main internal floor is laid over them (with appropriate tank access traps installed into the internal floor). So, in terms of tank winterisation, as the tanks are sandwiched between the underfloor and the internal floor, there is a heated, insulated, double floor local to the tanks. That is what I was trying, albeit rather too briefly, to get across.

[Guest pelmetman]

Is it me? 8-)...................but rejecting the other wise perfick camper coz the waste tank is outside *-).........

 

I maybe an idiot.............BUT.............. if your camping in your motorhome in temperatures that are likely to freeze your waste tank 8-)......................THEN OPEN YOUR COCK *-) ..................

 

And They call me stupid 8-).............

[Brian Kirby]

The tank wasn't the only reason for rejection, though, Dave. Drop down bed, mirrors, and width, were also mentioned. You're being very hard on poor Poppy! :-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2013-04-20 7:20 PM

 

The tank wasn't the only reason for rejection, though, Dave. Drop down bed, mirrors, and width, were also mentioned. You're being very hard on poor Poppy! :-)

 

I guess your right Brian :-S.......................But I do wonder at why people buy camper vans at times *-)....................They seem to forget what its for..................its about going places..............If your not happy that your mirrors are a few inches wider than your last camper *-)................You will spend your whole life on the edge of yer seat worried about getting a 300 quid bill to replace your all singing all dancing wing mirrors 8-)

 

People need a reality check...............are you buying a camper to go places?..............or are you buying a camper to impress the neighbours *-)

[lennyhb]

pelmetman - 2013-04-20 7:36 PM

 

....or are you buying a camper to impress the neighbours *-)

 

As most of them spend more time on the drive than going places it must be to impress the neighbors :D

[Guest pelmetman]

lennyhb - 2013-04-20 8:58 PM

 

pelmetman - 2013-04-20 7:36 PM

 

....or are you buying a camper to impress the neighbours *-)

 

As most of them spend more time on the drive than going places it must be to impress the neighbors :D

 

Ditto :D.................I'm constantly surprised that I haven't been asked to sling my hook, from this forum (lol) (lol)

[Poppy]

OK first of all our motorhome definately does not spend its time on the drive way.Salesman was suprised at how many miles it actually had.Secondly the Rapido.Much to like not least the fantastic fixed bed with good headroom and really easy access.Others not to like and the extra width along with the large and fixed mirrors was one.One our van if you are in a tight space you can pull the mirrors in from the van for a few minutes if necessary.

We like much about our current van but the bed is high with ladders and has poor headroom for sprawling and reading.The exis is nice, I like the LOOK of the Laika but want to see that bed in more detail.If we don't find anything that we feel is a big improvement we will keep current one as it causes us no problems and we like so much about it.

The winterization.I do like some BUT I was a bit shocked because the brochure made much of the double floor and subsequent winterization but it seems that in this case it simply wasn't there and I felt a bit cheated I think.

[bolero boy]

Poppy, I'm guessing from your description of a 'baby A Class' you meadn the 903df.

We looked at this van at the NEC but decided there wasnt enough internal storage, kitchen too cramped as was the wash room.

Hovever, Rapido Technical Bumph states that both tanks were inside the double floor.... see below....

 

2 TECHNICAL DOUBLE FLOOR (SERIES 7DF AND 9DF) : Houses the fresh water and waste tanks, gas lines, electricity cables and heating circuit, freeing up space in the living area and allowing for a single-level interior fl oor, thus removing the need for steps. Underfl oor storage box inside.

 

.....although i didnt get under and check the waste tank.

 

RE: the width issue, this van is no wider that a 'standard' A Class or coachbuilt. Yes, the cab may be wider and you cant pull the mirrors in, but in a coachbuilt (like ours) you still have to get the body through after the cab has got through.

The A Class just has the same width all the way from front to back - if the front wont get through then the rest wont either!

 

We have also been looking at the Exsis-i and this is also a really nice van albeit a little narrower and a little more expensive. I suggest you look at the 504 model with a rear transverse bed over a garage at 6.20m long. The kitchen and washroom are far better than the Rapido but the main disadvantage is a tapering bed.

You can delete the overcab bed as Brian says but storage is miles better than the Rapido so may not need this drastic action.

Good luck with your search.

This van was featured this month in Which Motorhome and got 5 stars.

 

[Poppy]

bolero boy - 2013-04-21 9:55 AM

 

Poppy, I'm guessing from your description of a 'baby A Class' you meadn the 903df.

We looked at this van at the NEC but decided there wasnt enough internal storage, kitchen too cramped as was the wash room.

Hovever, Rapido Technical Bumph states that both tanks were inside the double floor.... see below....

 

2 TECHNICAL DOUBLE FLOOR (SERIES 7DF AND 9DF) : Houses the fresh water and waste tanks, gas lines, electricity cables and heating circuit, freeing up space in the living area and allowing for a single-level interior fl oor, thus removing the need for steps. Underfl oor storage box inside.

 

.....although i didnt get under and check the waste tank.

 

RE: the width issue, this van is no wider that a 'standard' A Class or coachbuilt. Yes, the cab may be wider and you cant pull the mirrors in, but in a coachbuilt (like ours) you still have to get the body through after the cab has got through.

The A Class just has the same width all the way from front to back - if the front wont get through then the rest wont either!

 

We have also been looking at the Exsis-i and this is also a really nice van albeit a little narrower and a little more expensive. I suggest you look at the 504 model with a rear transverse bed over a garage at 6.20m long. The kitchen and washroom are far better than the Rapido but the main disadvantage is a tapering bed.

You can delete the overcab bed as Brian says but storage is miles better than the Rapido so may not need this drastic action.

Good luck with your search.

This van was featured this month in Which Motorhome and got 5 stars.

Thank you Bolero boy thats what I read and thanks for the good wishes.

[Derek Uzzell]

If genuine 'winterisation' is required in a motorhome, all water reservoirs and fresh/waste water pipework will need to be enclosed within a heatable double floor.

 

Unless the vehicle has an Al-Ko chassis (which Rapido 7dF and 9dF designs do not have) the overall height of the vehicle will inevitably increase to allow adequate interior headroom.

 

An alternative is (as Brian and bolero boy mention) to use a 'technical double floor' where the underside of the lower 'floor' is beneath (or within) the chassis rather than on top of it. This type of floor design has been around for years , and has been employed by Frankia, Hymer and Knaus. It may well involve water reservoirs protruding below the chassis, but these will normally be well insulated.

 

I don't know what the arrangement is with a Rapido 903dF, but the 'double floor' is said to be only 15cm deep, which strongly suggests that water tanks will be installed using a similar methodology to that of an Exsis-i.

[Poppy]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-04-22 9:39 AM

 

If genuine 'winterisation' is required in a motorhome, all water reservoirs and fresh/waste water pipework will need to be enclosed within a heatable double floor.

 

Unless the vehicle has an Al-Ko chassis (which Rapido 7dF and 9dF designs do not have) the overall height of the vehicle will inevitably increase to allow adequate interior headroom.

 

An alternative is (as Brian and bolero boy mention) to use a 'technical double floor' where the underside of the lower 'floor' is beneath (or within) the chassis rather than on top of it. This type of floor design has been around for years , and has been employed by Frankia, Hymer and Knaus. It may well involve water reservoirs protruding below the chassis, but these will normally be well insulated.

 

I don't know what the arrangement is with a Rapido 903dF, but the 'double floor' is said to be only 15cm deep, which strongly suggests that water tanks will be installed using a similar methodology to that of an Exsis-i.

You may well be right Derek but we didn't know and neither did the salesman.