New toy - PVC (not the polyvinylchloride type!)

[hughman]

So, back in Blighty after a trip to Germany last week to swop my old Burstner for a new Possl. All went well, bar odd delays in fixing the TV, and it all worked fine on the way back. Obviously much easier to drive than the Burstner, and a lot quicker. Equally obviously, less space inside, but we've got fixed single beds (that can become a monster double, enough comfortable seating space, and the neat washroom layout to give a bit more space.

 

Went for a 'wild' weekend down to Kent - visited Rye and overnighted at Dungeness, then on to Sheffield Park gardens yesterday before coming back. Wife very pleased with it on first time out, and we're already planning a trip to Skye at half-term (she's a teacher, for her sins).

 

Now for the schadenfreude bit - it has a Truma combi 4/6 boiler which was ok on my trip back, but, we turned it on when we went to the pub on Saturday night, and on return the water was hot but the heating had gone off. Despite all efforts to restart it on a coldish and extremely windy night, I could only get it to fire up and then it would cut off after a few seconds, so we had a chilly night and healthy cold wash in the morning :-(

 

I gather there are problems with Trumas - can anyone point me at any obvious solution before I start forking out for professional assistance? I'd really like to get it fixed quickly, as Skye can be cold at this time of year :-|

[Guest JudgeMental]

Honestly......Not sayin nufink till you post piccy's :-(

 

(welcome to the club!!!:-D)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hugh'..unless someone comes back with something obvious,wouldn't the best approach be to contact the selling dealer,so that they could "approve/arrange/ coordinate" you to call in at a *Truma approved dealership somewhere convenient or for an engineer to visit?

 

(* That's if such a thing exists?...)

 

Very nice vans by the way..... ;-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

you have gas in bottle

 

It is turned on

 

the hoses are all tight..if they are not securemotion valve will turn off

 

hot water worked initally so unlikely to be the common fault - truma securemotion valve

 

You have looked at controls and know how to use them

 

there is a green button on side of valve...have you pressed that in - you will hear a faint suck of gas

 

if that dont work try holding it in with a piece of stick (as a temp measure)

 

Dont panic! It will cost you nothing if the above don't solve ..you are covered by a Truma european wide warranty.

[Keithl]

You can check you have an adequate gas supply by lighting all the burners on the gas hob. If they light OK then start looking elsewhere for the fault.

 

Do the indicator lights on the Truma control panel light as normal or do they turn red or flash a message? If so look in your owners manual to see what they mean.

 

Does your 'van have a flue vent cover? If so have you taken it off?

 

Some suggestions possibly daft but others maybe not.....

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Keith.

[Robinhood]

...I assume you have the documentation, but if not the troubleshooting info is attached below:

 

It would be useful to know whether your new vehicle is equipped with a Secumotion regulator (sometimes termed "DriveSafe"), and whether you are using propane or Butane.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Hugh has refillable LPG bottles...it will have securemotion valve unless he specified otherwise.

[Robinhood]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 5:47 PM

 

it will have securemotion valve unless he specified otherwise.

 

....possibly, though I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth. ;-)

 

(The Pössl specs imply they currently don't provide Secumotion as standard, and that they've migrated to CS, not Secumotion, if a "drive safe" option is requested).

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Robinhood - 2013-05-13 5:58 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 5:47 PM

 

it will have securemotion valve unless he specified otherwise.

 

....possibly, though I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth. ;-)

 

(The Pössl specs imply they currently don't provide Secumotion as standard, and that they've migrated to CS, not Secumotion, if a "drive safe" option is requested).

 

 

OK ...aren't they the same thing? I presumed it was a TUV standard due to requirement of crash sensing

 

"Why is a new regulator system needed?

 

With motor homes as of construction year 01/2007, in accordance with the heating equipment directive 2001/56/EC with annexes 2004/78/EC and 2006/119/EC for the operation of a liquid gas heater while driving, a safety shut-off device must be provided that prevents gas from inadvertently escaping if a

line breaks in the event of an accident.

 

In combination with high-pressure gas hoses with integrated hose rupture protection (HRP), The Truma Secumotion (with integrated gas flow monitor) and MonoControl CS and DuoControl CS (with integrated crash sensor) gas pressure regulation systems comply with all of the relevant standards, regulations and directivesand therefore allows the gas system to be used throughout Europe, also while driving.

 

We also recommend the use of a safety device for heating while driving in caravans.

 

For vehicles manufactured before 01/2007 there are no restrictions for operating the gas system while driving **.

 

** Exception for France:

In France the operation of a gas system while driving is only permitted in type-tested vehicles with initial registration as of 01.01.2007. In older vehicles the operation of the gas system while driving is also non-permissible in combination with a safety shut-off device."

 

Anyway semantics.....not helping Hugh *-)

 

edit:

 

this possl english brochure may be helpful..

 

gas from page 29

 

http://www.poessl-mobile.de/download/kunde/2007/anleitung/PSL_0005_00EN.pdf

[Robinhood]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 6:17 PM

 

Robinhood - 2013-05-13 5:58 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 5:47 PM

 

it will have securemotion valve unless he specified otherwise.

 

....possibly, though I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth. ;-)

 

(The Pössl specs imply they currently don't provide Secumotion as standard, and that they've migrated to CS, not Secumotion, if a "drive safe" option is requested).

 

 

OK ...aren't they the same thing?

 

 

...nope. Whilst they both provide a means of legally using gas whilst on the move, Secumotion is a flow-sensing system that cuts off the supply if the demand goes over a certain level, whereas CS cuts off the supply by means of a (presumably inertia) crash-sensor. For Hugh's problem, (assuming he hasn't crashed :-) ) the difference might be relevant.

 

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 6:17 PM

this possl english brochure may be helpful.

 

....yes, but it is a 2006 publication; the latest price list might be interpreted as there being no "travelling" provision as standard, hence the question as to what is actually fitted to Hugh's 'van.

 

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 6:17 PM

Anyway semantics.....not helping Hugh *-)

 

 

...I agree, you aren't! ;-)

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

As Robinhood says, Truma’s “Secumotion” and “CS” (Crash Sensor) regulators are quite different and function differently.

 

As Keith advises, the first check should be to ensure there is an adequate gas-supply from the bottle to the motorhome appliances by lighting the hob-burners and switching them to their maximum setting. This won’t necessarily prove gas is reaching the heater, but it’s a good start. After that, follow Truma’s troubleshooting advice as listed by Robinhood.

 

As Hugh’s Combi heater worked OK on the way back from Germany and will have been operating for at least 20 minutes to get the water hot (longer if air-heating has also been selected) before switching off, something odd is going on.

 

There were reports of early Combis acting strangely. The problem was traced to the heater’s reaction to the leisure-vehicle’s onboard battery-charger and was resolved by replacement of the heater’s PCB with a revised version. But I’m not aware of any general reports of Combi’s proving impossible to ‘fire up’ as Hugh describes.

 

[colin]

So I'm guessing you have the same layout as us? not that that makes any differance.

Sounds a similier problem to that we had, caused by a bad connection on truma control switch, but apparently also can be on main truma pcb.

So remove black (? ) plastic cover from truma pcb, wriggle or unplug and replace plugs.

Get to back of control switch and wriggle or unplug and plug conections.

p.s. if you have power to truma and have the plasic cover off you will proboly see a blinking LED, the sequence of blinks is a fault code.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Robinhood - 2013-05-13 6:32 PM

 

...I agree, you aren't! ;-)

 

 

So my earlier check-list not helpful.......You really are a to$$er pal

 

Yep.....same van as you Colin

[Mel B]

OMG ... a new foreign made van with a PROBLEM ... well I never ... 8-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... only kidding Hugh!

 

From what you've said I'm not convinced it can be the gas bottle feed as you wouldn't get hot water or be able to do anything else gas related, so colin's suggestion above seems to be a likely contender.

[hughman]

All,

 

thanks for replies. I've been down at the van trying again and failing, as well as doing various other little jobs, hence my late response.

 

Gas works ok. Both hob and fridge work no problem.

 

I took the cover off the boiler and poked around a bit - tried taking out fuse, which looks ok. Tried again, and same thing happened. Green light comes on, then yellow for warming up or whatever it is, then you hear the boiler fire up, then shortly afterwards there is a click from the boiler area and it goes off, with red fault light on display.

 

It's running on standard LPG propane - everything else works.

 

I guess I can try Colin's plug-wiggling suggestion. There is a fault code light on the boiler itself as well as at the control unit.

 

Don't know about 'secumotion' till I get the Possl manual in English - my printer's up the creek just now :-(

 

Failing that, it looks like a trip to a Truma dealer sometime.

 

Still, that (not so small) niggle apart, it's very good and we'll easily adjust to the smaller space. I'll try and do some pix next time I'm playing with it.

[hughman]

Mel B - 2013-05-13 7:11 PM

 

OMG ... a new foreign made van with a PROBLEM ... well I never ... 8-)

 

That's why I made the comment about schadenfreude - I knew foreign/PVC would spark comment so I thought I'd get my retaliation in first :-D :-D

[Guest JudgeMental]

so not the valve then.....So heating, just call truma and arrange an engineer

 

And right re schadenfreude..always a few who delight in someone elses pain......

[Robinhood]

....whilst by no means definitive, (particularly if there is a PCB issue) the fixed red light in the Control Panel would normally mean a gas supply problem.

 

Assuming the isolating tap is not switched off, then there is a question as to whether your set up can deliver enough flow to satisfy the initial demand (which is quite high). Hence the question as to whether you are using Propane or Butane, because Butane often struggles to match the take-off demand.

 

As far as Secumotion or CS regulator use is concerned, if your hob, etc. continue to work throughout without any reset at the regulator/bottle end, then there is not likely to be an issue with these (if indeed one or the other is fitted).

 

For identification, both these systems have a green button on the gas hose where it is attached to the bottle, and also on the regulator (though this one has a different function for each regulator type). If excess flow (Secumotion) or a crash (CS) is sensed, the gas will be cut-off, and the buttons are used in a start-up sequence to restore flow.

 

I have Secumotion on my 'van, and the initial demand from the Combi 6 is sometimes sufficient to trigger a shut down (Hence my question about Secumotion) requiring a reset, but in this case, my hob, etc. also fail to work.

 

If you are showing fault-codes at the boiler unit (flashing red lights), as well as the control panel, I have a Truma document which someone made available in the past, which might help to identify any error from the flashing sequence.

 

Happy to email it if it might prove useful.

 

 

[colin]

hughman - 2013-05-13 7:29 PM

. Green light comes on, then yellow for warming up or whatever it is, then you hear the boiler fire up, then shortly afterwards there is a click from the boiler area and it goes off, with red fault light on display.

 

Thats the same as ours was (mis) behaving, and due to poor connection. Apparently a fairly common problem.

[Mel B]

Our Truma combi goes confused my hubby at first as he thought it kept 'failing' in heating mode.

 

If you turn it on to heat only it goes to green to show it is working.

 

If you then click onto water heating as well it goes to orange which means it is pre-heating the boiler and this is what hubby thought was it going into fail safe (fail safe is red).

 

Hubby seems to think it goes back to green in when the pre-heat mode has finished ... but he's never looked!

 

So, have you tried it on heating only?

 

From what you've said it would appear to be something to do with the boiler that is triggering the problem rather than the heating ... I assume there is definitely water IN the boiler? :-S

[Mel B]

I made up a simple 'how to use the Truma' idiots guide which might be useful to some, if anyone wants it so they can print it off drop me your email address via a PM and I'll send it to you but I'm only here until tomorrow night!!! B-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

JudgeMental - 2013-05-13 8:00 PM

 

so not the valve then.....So heating, just call truma and arrange an engineer

 

And right re schadenfreude..always a few who delight in someone elses pain......

 

you will need serial number for call..

 

"If you require information on Truma UK's Service centres, please contact Truma UK on:"

 

Tel: 01283 586020

Email: technical@trumauk.com

[hughman]

Thanks again all.

 

I've got a Gaslow system which was transferred from my old van and was working fine. As I say, only problem is water/heating - fridge and cooker are OK. I've tried on winter and summer, water and no water, and get the same every time.

 

I'll try Colin's loose connection test tomorrow, then it'll have to be engineer.

 

BTW, how do you remove the control panel to check connections? I'm assuming my system is gas only - it's a Combi 4, and I haven't found a lower control unit like Mel shows.

[colin]

You haven't got a lower control panel.

Mine has the control panel near sink and I reached up from the drawer below it, if yours is over sld you'll have to work it out I'm afraid

[Robinhood]

hughman - 2013-05-13 9:13 PM

 

BTW, how do you remove the control panel to check connections? I'm assuming my system is gas only - it's a Combi 4, and I haven't found a lower control unit like Mel shows.

 

The attached pic shows how the panel is fitted.

 

The frame is a "click" fit that can be removed by careful use of a thin knife under the edge.

 

The mounting screws should then be obvious (and if you're going to remove it you'll have to hope there is enough slack in the cable).