Stewart Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Our Hobby Toskana habitation door step has stopped retracting automatically when the engine is started. It continues to come out and retract correctly when controlled by the switch by the door. Any ideas on where I should look for the fault? Our van is a 2008 Hobby Toskana 600GFLC on a Fiat chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetahdavie Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I am no expert Stewart....there will be many who will give you you better advice than I. But...my step did exactly the same..on a 2007 Compass[Eldis?] and it was cured by getting under the step..cleaning the accumulated dirt..especially around the motor..WD40 grease and it then worked! It still seems ok [working] so it must be something simple like a good cleaning. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Check fuses at split charge relay which should be in the engine compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 cheetahdavie - 2013-06-21 12:06 AM I am no expert Stewart....there will be many who will give you you better advice than I. But...my step did exactly the same..on a 2007 Compass[Eldis?] and it was cured by getting under the step..cleaning the accumulated dirt..especially around the motor..WD40 grease and it then worked! It still seems ok [working] so it must be something simple like a good cleaning. Good luck Thanks. The mechanism could probably do with a good cleaning although the step works fine when controlled by the switch by the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 sshortcircuit - 2013-06-21 8:50 AM Check fuses at split charge relay which should be in the engine compartment. Thanks. I'll have a look for that fuse. Unfortunately, I have just put the van back into storage so it'll have to wait for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I suspect your 'van uses a CBE control panel and distribution box. If so, the retraction of the step is (AFAIK) controlled by the simulated D+ connection (which also controls such things as the AES fridge switching, etc.) provided by the distribution box. The output from this is protected in the distribution box by a (probably 3amp) fuse. I would check this first (the location should be in your Hobby manual). The step power itself is protected by an adjacent (probably 25amp) fuse in the distribution box (which from your description would appear to be OK). HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Assuming yours is similar to ours (though I think Fiat based), the retraction of the step is controlled by a relay which Robin's D+ feed actuates. On ours, as Robin says, relays are housed inside the main fuse/control box, screwed to its base. Alternatively, it is possible that the step relay is located in furniture beside the habitation door. There is an audible click just after the engine fires, and it is that relay (plus possibly others, I seem to remember two) switching, at which point the step retracts. As the step works normally under manual control there seems little need to start greasing (bad idea because the grease picks up road grit!) or dismantling its mechanism. This is how ours worked. When the engine starts, and the generator begins supplying power, its D+ terminal becomes live, and that feed is used to control various functions that only work while the vehicle is being driven. This D+ feed is then tapped by the converters to operate relays to switch 12V power to the fridge, to charge the habitation battery, and for such functions as step retraction. The step relay opens contacts that provide power to the manual switch for the step, while closing contacts that power the step to retract. You may have noticed that once the engine is running, the manual switch does not function. When the engine is turned off, the relay switches back to reinstate power to the manual switch. It will be a little (probably black) box about 1" cubed. It will have 5 wires connected to it: the D+ feed and its ground connection, a 12V power feed, and two switched supplies out . It should also have a little diagram embossed into it showing which connections do what. Just to be safe, you'll need to isolate mains power before you remove the cover of the control box. If you get someone else to start the engine, you should be able to identify the relay that clicks over by listening near the door, or near that box. If you hear a click near the door, I suspect that will be the step relay. It may be the relay that is faulty (though they are incredibly reliable), it could be a fuse (in which case try to work out why it failed breplacingalcing it) or it may just be a loose wire. Because the step is working under manual control, I doubt if the problem is under the van. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-06-21 6:02 PM Because the step is working under manual control, I doubt if the problem is under the van. I'll have to disagree here Brian. What if the limit switch at the back of the step has stuck in a closed position? The step will then think it is closed when the engine is started and consequently won't move. This limit switch is not used when in manual control so won't affect operation via the switch. One word of caution though, these steps are powerful when operated by the motor and have many joints which can trap unwary fingers so be very careful when working under or around them. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Keithl - 2013-06-21 6:33 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-06-21 6:02 PM Because the step is working under manual control, I doubt if the problem is under the van. I'll have to disagree here Brian. What if the limit switch at the back of the step has stuck in a closed position? The step will then think it is closed when the engine is started and consequently won't move. This limit switch is not used when in manual control so won't affect operation via the switch. One word of caution though, these steps are powerful when operated by the motor and have many joints which can trap unwary fingers so be very careful when working under or around them. Keith. This is a very, VERY rare occurrence, the "step closed" switch will generally fail by becoming corroded and causing a high resistance. The "step closed" switch could be the problem though as the relay which closes the step when engine running takes its earth path through this switch. For my money the two most likely faults are a blown fuse on the "D+" signal feding the relay or the "step closed" switch is dirty. If it is the fuse then it is most likely that the fridge will not work on 12 volts and the leisure battery(ies) will not take charge with the engine running. Your final paragraph is a very sensible warning, the step mechanism is quite capable of severing a finger. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Thanks to everyone for their advice - and the warnings. As I said earlier, our van is back in storage for a few weeks so any testing will have to wait till we next take it out, probably around the middle of July. Once I get the van out I will be able to check the fuses, the D+ signal (if I can find it) and the relay. I suspect the relay is in the small beige box beside the leisure battery under the driver's seat. Some of the fuses are at the front of that box. They all look OK but I will test them properly with my DMM. I might have to borrow a stethoscope to listen for the relay clicking when the engine fires. Brian, Dave. I am not able to say whether the fridge is affected. We are just back from two weeks in Ardnamurchan and Mull but we were not driving very far and so the fridge was powered most of the time either by the mains or by gas. Also, conditions were not all that challenging for the fridge. As it happens, our leisure battery (5 years old and probably not very well maintained) is not holding much charge now, even when charged from a hook up overnight. However, it does seem to be charging from the alternator to some extent. I'll report back in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 ...if the electrics are CBE-based, then the distribution box will look very much like the attached picture. Mine is mounted under the driver's seat, but your model may have it elsewhere. The top half (in the picture) has the fuses visible under a removable perspex "lid", whilst the bottom half is where all the connections are (internally) made, and is obscured and inaccessible without dismantling the box. In this particular box, the main step power supply (which appears to be working on yours) is 20A fused at 8, whereas the simulated D+ signal, which switches the relay when the engine is running, is 3A fused at 10. For ease of checking, I would go for fuse 10, then the relay (Brian's tips are relevant), then check the "retracted switch" (though I suspect this might also inhibit manual retraction if it were stuck), and, if no luck, then it's a wiring fault you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Alan, If you're any good at following wiring diagrams and troubleshooting then here is a Link to Clive M-G's website and a typical step wiring diagram. This clearly shows the step relay earthing through the steps built in limit switch as Dave mentioned earlier. And thanks to Dave for correcting my earlier post, I got the symptoms right, just the cause wrong :-( Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Robin, There are nine fuses at the front of the box under the driver's seat in our van. From the Hobby manual, fuse 9 is marked D+/external lighting and is a 5A one. There are 4 relays shown on the circuit diagram. They are named on the diagram as Pump relay, Main relay, D+/ External lighting relay and Parallel connection relay. The Hobby manual, of course, covers lots of different motorhomes and possibly different vintages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Keith, Thanks, I'll have a look at the diagram. Much of my working life was spent looking at circuit diagrams although I preferred to look at the real thing indoors with space around me rather than under a van seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overdrive Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Some electric steps are wired to the handbrake switch. So when the engine starts and the handbrake is off the switch is depressed the step retracts. The fault maybe with the handbrake switch and not the relay if the step retracts and opens via the habitation rocker switch. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Dave Newell - 2013-06-21 6:52 PM Keithl - 2013-06-21 6:33 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-06-21 6:02 PM Because the step is working under manual control, I doubt if the problem is under the van. I'll have to disagree here Brian. What if the limit switch at the back of the step has stuck in a closed position? The step will then think it is closed when the engine is started and consequently won't move. This limit switch is not used when in manual control so won't affect operation via the switch. One word of caution though, these steps are powerful when operated by the motor and have many joints which can trap unwary fingers so be very careful when working under or around them. Keith. This is a very, VERY rare occurrence, the "step closed" switch will generally fail by becoming corroded and causing a high resistance. The "step closed" switch could be the problem though as the relay which closes the step when engine running takes its earth path through this switch.........................Your final paragraph is a very sensible warning, the step mechanism is quite capable of severing a finger. D. Then I'm a bit puzzled chaps. :-) When I spoke of "manual control" I wonder if I may have caused confusion? What I meant is manually operating the step (which I suspect will be a cassette type Omnistep) through its manual switch, not physically operating it. So, surely, when the switch is operated to retract the step, the limit switch will operate to stop it when fully retracted? Does it not cut the circuit when the step has fully retracted, to prevent the motor continuing to run? My impression with ours was that once the step was fully extended, or fully retracted, the circuit was cut. Further pressure on the switch, once either of those states was reached, resulted in no further response from the step motor. However, I agree that if fiddling inside the casing, the lazy tongs that extend/retract the step are easily powerful enough to take off a finger, so make absolutely sure it is fully isolated. If that switch has stuck and frees, and power is available, it will also move surprisingly quickly! Safest method, overall, would be to disconnect and remove the step to a workbench before opening the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Brian Kirby - 2013-06-21 11:42 PM Dave Newell - 2013-06-21 6:52 PM Keithl - 2013-06-21 6:33 PM Brian Kirby - 2013-06-21 6:02 PM Because the step is working under manual control, I doubt if the problem is under the van. I'll have to disagree here Brian. What if the limit switch at the back of the step has stuck in a closed position? The step will then think it is closed when the engine is started and consequently won't move. This limit switch is not used when in manual control so won't affect operation via the switch. One word of caution though, these steps are powerful when operated by the motor and have many joints which can trap unwary fingers so be very careful when working under or around them. Keith. This is a very, VERY rare occurrence, the "step closed" switch will generally fail by becoming corroded and causing a high resistance. The "step closed" switch could be the problem though as the relay which closes the step when engine running takes its earth path through this switch.........................Your final paragraph is a very sensible warning, the step mechanism is quite capable of severing a finger. D. Then I'm a bit puzzled chaps. :-) When I spoke of "manual control" I wonder if I may have caused confusion? What I meant is manually operating the step (which I suspect will be a cassette type Omnistep) through its manual switch, not physically operating it. So, surely, when the switch is operated to retract the step, the limit switch will operate to stop it when fully retracted? Does it not cut the circuit when the step has fully retracted, to prevent the motor continuing to run? My impression with ours was that once the step was fully extended, or fully retracted, the circuit was cut. Further pressure on the switch, once either of those states was reached, resulted in no further response from the step motor. However, I agree that if fiddling inside the casing, the lazy tongs that extend/retract the step are easily powerful enough to take off a finger, so make absolutely sure it is fully isolated. If that switch has stuck and frees, and power is available, it will also move surprisingly quickly! Safest method, overall, would be to disconnect and remove the step to a workbench before opening the case. Brian, I have no plans to tamper with the step itself. It extends and retracts very quickly using the manual switch by the door just as it has always done. Also, there are no odd sounds from the motor after it has stopped moving to suggest that the motor is still getting power. So far, the only injury sustained by anyone has been a bruised leg caused by standing too close to the van when the button was pressed to extend the step. I'm going away from home later today so I won't be able to reply for a while. Thanks to everyone for their help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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