EHU leads

[Bulletguy]

Like most I have the standard EHU cable (orange in colour) but have often wondered why the cable is so damn thick and is it really necessary? After all, any standard 240v mains cable used around the house is half the thickness.

 

The weight of the thing almost pulls your arms out of joint when coiling it back up. As far as I can see about the only point in its favour is the outer cable colour which makes it very visible where all European mh'ers cables are black.......but at least theirs are a lot thinner and lighter!

 

I'm seriously considering making up a lead from thinner lighter cable though i'm sure some 'leccy teccys' on here will have some explanation as to the reasons why EHU cable has to be so thick.

[malc d]

I would assume that it's thick because it spends most of it's time outdoors, in all weathers, and is often run over by vehicles. So it could be an 'elf and safety issue.

 

 

:-|

[Retread24800]

I always thought that UK EHU leads were designed to cope with the typical UK usage, Fan heater for the awning, Electric Hotplate and Domestic Kettle, you get my drift whereas on the mainland the supply is often no more than sufficient for the Fridge and the Telly so needing only a lighter lead.

[Bulletguy]

I'm inclined to think Malcs point about H&S to be most likely. After all it is a national obsession! :D

[Muswell]

Seems like you need stronger arms :-D A few sets of cable coiling each day should do the trick.

[Brian Kirby]

Retread24800 - 2013-08-10 2:10 PM

 

I always thought that UK EHU leads were designed to cope with the typical UK usage, Fan heater for the awning, Electric Hotplate and Domestic Kettle, you get my drift whereas on the mainland the supply is often no more than sufficient for the Fridge and the Telly so needing only a lighter lead.

Correct! The lead should be suitable for the full rated capacity of the site supply point, which in UK is commonly 16A. This requires 2.5mm cable.

 

Mainlanders tend to have lower rated site supply points (frequently 10A or less, sometimes as little as 2A), so do not need such heavy cables to carry the power.

 

In principle, the capacity of the cable should match or exceed the site supply capacity, and never be lower. If the cable is lower rated than the supply point "fuse", and an overload develops in the connected system, it would result in the cable overheating, and possibly catching fire. If the cable is correctly rated the supply point will trip before the cable overheated, eliminating the fire risk.

 

If you wish to downsize the EHU cable you should look at the capacity of your on-board consumer unit, because that will limit the amount of current you can draw before it trips on overload. If the cable at least equals the capacity of your consumer unit, you will not inadvertently overload it from within your van.

 

However, if you use this lighter cable on a UK site, and a fault develops within the cable itself (say because someone drives over it and damages the insulation), it will be liable to overheat and possibly catch fire, because the protection the site feeder is designed to give to the cable will have been negated.

 

OTOH, if you stick to using 2.5mm cable, even on sites where the supply is limited to below 16A, your cable and your (probably) lower rated on-board consumer unit, will be fully protected because the site supply point itself will trip first.

 

So, if you wish to reduce your EHU cable to one of lighter section, I would say reserve that cable for use outside the UK (but make sure it is adequate for at least 10A), and keep your present 16A EHU for UK use.

 

However, this is not the opinion of an electrical engineer, or an electrician! :-)

[chas]

Several years ago I found that handling a standard EHU cable to be a real bind and also found in many cases that when I did require hook up the connection bollard was quite near to where I pitched, hence I made up a cable with white 13amp 3 core cable, about 15ft long.

 

Its surprising how often it is used, the 13amp cable being well up to the job its light and folds away with little effort. I do of course also carry the standard 20 metre orange 16amp as well.

I would not be without the short cable, it saves a lot of hard work and costs very little to make.

[hallii]

There is also the matter of voltage drop. The longer the cable, higher the load and thinner the cable the greater the voltage drop.

 

It is not uncommon to see two or more cables connected together to reach a distant hook up point, the voltage drop could be significant with smaller cable.

 

H

[Bulletguy]

chas - 2013-08-10 4:35 PM

 

Several years ago I found that handling a standard EHU cable to be a real bind and also found in many cases that when I did require hook up the connection bollard was quite near to where I pitched, hence I made up a cable with white 13amp 3 core cable, about 15ft long.

 

Its surprising how often it is used, the 13amp cable being well up to the job its light and folds away with little effort. I do of course also carry the standard 20 metre orange 16amp as well.

I would not be without the short cable, it saves a lot of hard work and costs very little to make.

 

Excellent idea and the way to go! Shorter length of lighter cable.....makes sense to me. In almost three months now this is actually the first site i've had to use the entire length, and that's only because the boxes on the side i'm on aren't working.

 

All i'm running is Fridge, lighting and a 10" telly. Krauts pull on site in whacking big Hymers running air-con and God knows what else without problem.

 

 

[Tracker]

Bulletguy - 2013-08-10 5:11 PM

 

Excellent idea and the way to go! Shorter length of lighter cable.....makes sense to me. In almost three months now this is actually the first site i've had to use the entire length, and that's only because the boxes on the side i'm on aren't working.

 

 

Or you could just buy plug and socket and chop your existing 60' cable into a 20' and a 40'?

[snowie]

Bulletguy - 2013-08-10 5:11 PM

 

chas - 2013-08-10 4:35 PM

 

Several years ago I found that handling a standard EHU cable to be a real bind and also found in many cases that when I did require hook up the connection bollard was quite near to where I pitched, hence I made up a cable with white 13amp 3 core cable, about 15ft long.

Excellent idea and the way to go!

 

I think that's brilliant, maybe I'd go for a bit more than 15', but that's splitting hairs,

Another job to add to the list,

regards

alan b

[bolero boy]

I also decided that a 20mtr cable was overkill for the majority of distances to bollards so I made 10mtr cable to use as an alternate or in addition.

I use the short cable (weighing half of the long one) about 7 times out of 10.

Additionally I have the option to join them and give me 30mtr if required.

[docted]

ELF AND SAFETY ALERT

I know it is done on sites here and abroad but I have to speak out on the safety aspect of cut and replugged cables.

It isnot wise to join two cables together with plug and socket connections as you are leaving a potential weak point if some careless sod drives over the plugs breaking the plug and socket and exposing live pins. :-(

 

Preaching finished for the day. :-D

[colin]

We have a 25m orange cable, very rarely use a hook up so it's overkill for what we need, but I don't intend altering it as it's not much of a problem using it. I guess some must be very weak and feeble ;-)

As Brian points out above, the reason they are built that thick is they are 16amp and designed for use outdoors, you don't get household ones that are designed for such use.

[Tracker]

docted - 2013-08-11 12:28 PM

 

It is not wise to join two cables together with plug and socket connections as you are leaving a potential weak point if some careless sod drives over the plugs breaking the plug and socket and exposing live pins. :-(

 

Preaching finished for the day. :-D

 

Fair comment, but as long as the joined lead is run where no vehicles drive I really can't see any problem - and you always have the option of switching the two sections of lead to place the join where you would prefer it to be?

[docted]

Can you be sure its not moved by a warden on grass cutting, or

What about the little ones who might think its a new toy?

 

I know its the parents responsibility to look after their little ones but we cannot all abdicate our social responsibility. :-|

 

Rich you are a swine I thought I had finished preaching for the day. >:-)

[Tracker]

It's so good to see that the paranoia that sees danger everywhere is still alive and thriving Eddie (lol)

 

Life is dangerous and little ones are probably safer on a site - even with trailing leads, projecting awning rails, guy ropes strung out at neck level, unattended bbqs, not so little ones hurtling around on bikes, dogs doing what dogs do, balls of all shapes and sizes bouncing about, low flying kites, overhead power lines - not to mention the dangers of playing near the chemical disposal points, barbed wire fences, rivers, streams and ditches, long grass where who knows what can lurk ready to pounce on the unwary!

 

Still at least with an unjoined mains lead they will just that little bit safer - ah bless!!

 

Time for the third lesson in Elfan maybe!!

 

[sshortcircuit]

Common sense out the window. Visited the Lamas Fair in St Andrews today which has fairground rides along the main street of St Andrews. Large generators supplying multiple attractions with cable along the ground with multiple connection. I am sure if the local authority thought there were dangers involved this would not happen and similarly with extensions on site. A real world out there

[Brian Kirby]

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-11 5:42 PM

 

Common sense out the window. Visited the Lamas Fair in St Andrews today which has fairground rides along the main street of St Andrews. Large generators supplying multiple attractions with cable along the ground with multiple connection. I am sure if the local authority thought there were dangers involved this would not happen and similarly with extensions on site. A real world out there

But, you do not earth a generator, do you?

[sshortcircuit]

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-11 7:27 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-11 5:42 PM

 

Common sense out the window. Visited the Lamas Fair in St Andrews today which has fairground rides along the main street of St Andrews. Large generators supplying multiple attractions with cable along the ground with multiple connection. I am sure if the local authority thought there were dangers involved this would not happen and similarly with extensions on site. A real world out there

But, you do not earth a generator, do you?

 

No, however I did not pay attention to the earthing at the Lamas. The topic was about plugs and sockets being possibly damaged and exposing live terminals. Earthing of generators opens a large can of worms.

 

When I have been in Benidorm a small hall between El Raco and La Torretta is used as a studio for the Benidorm tv series and is the reception and hair dressing salon. When filming a large vehicle mounted generator similar to those at the Lamas stands outside the hall to provide additional power for lighting etc. It has a large earth spike driven into the ground, so in this situation it is deemed necessary.

[Keithl]

If you ever consider joining mains cables then it would be wise to invest in one of these... Link.

 

It will comfortably take a blue 16A plug and trailing socket, adds a further degree of waterproofing and is lockable to keep prying fingers out. For a tenner surely worth the investment.

 

To add to the discussion I carry both a 25m and a 12m orange cable and over 50% of the time only have to use the shorter. I also have a protector box in case I ever have to join the two.

 

Finally the reason bought hook up cables are made of 2.5mm2 cable is that they are made to a British Standard, BS EN 60309-2, and that states that 2.5mm2 cable must be used. If they are made of smaller cable they do not meet the BS and CANNOT be sold as hook up cables.

Here is a link to the C&CC website giving full details... Link to C&CC.

 

Keith.

[Dave225]

I tend to agree that there is a case of the UK taking H&S to illogical extremes. Yes, the CC etc does offer a supposed 16 amp supply from its bollards but that equates to 3680 watts. For any motorhome owner or caravanner to actually require that amount of power will take a bit of doing and will require using very heavy loading domestic equipment. After all your fridge pulls 140 watts, the water heater similar, a hotplate is anything between 700 watts and 1500 watts, tv is about 40 watts, kettle if a camping version is about 750 watts, so unless you plug everything in at the very same time you are unlikely to get near 16 amps worth. Of course if you have brought the 3 kw kettle from home, or run a 3 kw fan heater then you might, but why did you do that? Plus if you are on a CC for example site with 150 outfits and they are all pulling the 16 amps then the site will need to supply over 550 megawatts of power. I have no idea of the size of cable used but I doubt it is that big. Then it trips usually. So the 16 amps allowance is really overkill. It has also been stated that most sites in the EU allow 10 amps and everybody is very happy, even running air conditioners, as I do. But mine pulls just 2 amps or 500 watts so not really blowing anything. Therefore if the UK sites were to cut back on the supply just a shade then cables could be lighter and easier to handle. Plus no one would be out of power.

 

But then again logic never usually comes in to it once the H&S merchants in the UK have been let loose.

[Rayjsj]

hallii - 2013-08-10 4:43 PM

 

There is also the matter of voltage drop. The longer the cable, higher the load and thinner the cable the greater the voltage drop.

 

It is not uncommon to see two or more cables connected together to reach a distant hook up point, the voltage drop could be significant with smaller cable.

 

H

 

2 or 3 cables connected together !! I have never seen that (in the UK) I would just move closer to the bollard. I only carry 1x 16amp orange cable, 25 metres don't find it heavy or any kind of a bind.

 

Use 2.2 Kw Kettle and have done for years, have a 2kw Oil filled radiator for early spring/winter use,

Never had any problems only go to sites with an 'Adequate' power supply ESPECIALLY if I am paying extra for it. 10amp + preferably. we are ALL differant in our motorhoming needs. Ray

[Tracker]

Keithl - 2013-08-11 8:06 PM

If you ever consider joining mains cables then it would be wise to invest in one of these... Link.

It will comfortably take a blue 16A plug and trailing socket, adds a further degree of waterproofing and is lockable to keep prying fingers out. For a tenner surely worth the investment.

Keith.

 

But will it stand being run over by a Challenger battle tank, should one be on exercise and happen to stray through the campsite?

[Brian Kirby]

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-11 8:01 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2013-08-11 7:27 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2013-08-11 5:42 PM

 

Common sense out the window. Visited the Lamas Fair in St Andrews today which has fairground rides along the main street of St Andrews. Large generators supplying multiple attractions with cable along the ground with multiple connection. I am sure if the local authority thought there were dangers involved this would not happen and similarly with extensions on site. A real world out there

But, you do not earth a generator, do you?

 

No, however I did not pay attention to the earthing at the Lamas. The topic was about plugs and sockets being possibly damaged and exposing live terminals. Earthing of generators opens a large can of worms.

 

When I have been in Benidorm a small hall between El Raco and La Torretta is used as a studio for the Benidorm tv series and is the reception and hair dressing salon. When filming a large vehicle mounted generator similar to those at the Lamas stands outside the hall to provide additional power for lighting etc. It has a large earth spike driven into the ground, so in this situation it is deemed necessary.

Not sure if we're at cross-purposes or not, Hamish. I was responding to your comment above, about the apparently dangerous number of cable connections you saw at the Lamas fair.

 

I assume that since power stations use an earth path to complete their circuits, and generators do not, the risk to the public from the generator supplied cables/connections would be much lower than if the same supplies had been fed from the mains, as would generally be the case on a campsite.

 

I assume one would have to be in contact with both the L & N cables to receive a shock from damaged generator supplied cables/connectors whereas, being earthbound beings, one would only have to contact L to recieve a shock were the same arrangement mains fed. Is this not so? Sorry folks, it is a bit OT.